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UKGC urges operators to do KYC "earlier"

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by maxd, Jun 27, 2017.

    Jun 27, 2017
  1. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Commission urges operators to review when customer identity checks are made

    You must register/login in order to see the link..

    (Thanks to You must register/login in order to see the link. for the tip on this. :thumbsup:)
     
  2. Jun 27, 2017
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    AHA! A limp and weakly-worded edict that could lead to what I've been bleating on about for ages, the end of the EMSEB issue. I do like the way their primary consideration is 'money laundering' as opposed to player protection from the aforementioned scam. Even in this aspect there is a loophole, as it wouldn't stop casinos taking the deposits if KYC was clear as they could simply apply the dodgy identity aspect first, then informing the player at withdrawal stage of any SE negatives if they win.

    It alludes to ending the EMSEB scam when mentioning 'social responsibility' but needs to be more specific to leave operators in no doubt.

    But if they reword this gradually over the coming years, by 2025 the loopholes may be fully closed. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Jun 27, 2017
  5. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    So ... I'm guessing you've decided to forgo your nomination for Casinomeister's Ambassador of Light and Good Cheer again for this month? ;)
     
  6. Jun 27, 2017
  7. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    :D :D I'll cheer up when enjoying a good beer in Amsterdam in a couple of weeks. Remember London? You saw me smile twice, nay even 3 times that night in the pub and there were 2 witnesses of good character too.

    I won't be in the running for that award, no.

    But I have entered the race for the Casinomeister Upbeat News Trashing award 2017. ;) :thumbsup:
     
  8. Jun 27, 2017
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Now if we can just get you into a Euro-flag Speedo for the next Gay Pride Parade all will be well. :D
     
  10. Jun 27, 2017
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    OMG - you're going to Amsterdam???
    Shit - I'm cancelling my trip... :mad:

    KK
     
  12. Jun 27, 2017
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    One thing for sure, the casinos need to smarten up their sites. It is rare to find a site that makes it easy and quick to upload docs during the sign up process. I still think it is unrealistic to have these docs checked by a security team before playing - players want to play, not to wait several hours before being given the thumbs up.

    It again goes to show that the UKGC is out of touch with the realities of gamblers and online gaming.
     
  14. Jun 27, 2017
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    What? You thought you and Bryan would be getting away with drinking all the beer yourselves?

    I'll let you show me the best brothels, sorry bars.
     
  16. Jun 27, 2017
  17. BlaCGaming

    BlaCGaming Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany
    The step we need in all casinos.

    I agree its a hassle to wait hours before you can play, but some casinos do have checks for your ID number during registration, so its instantly verified.
     
  18. Jun 27, 2017
  19. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    I see huge issues with this. In my opinion what's likely to happen, given that gambling is an impulse activity, is that player's sign-up, get confronted with demands for documentation that they have no incentive to provide, can't access the games immediately and move on. This type of strategy doesn't ultimately help the industry, it drives players to rogue outfits accepting players without a license who won't make the same KYC demands before allowing play.

    That said, the article doesn't actually state that the operator should be conducting "pre-play" KYC. It indicates that "only" conducting KYC at withdrawal is unacceptable. In other words there are times and places that KYC should be conducted before the point of withdrawal and operators need to get better at identifying these times. Until such time as the GC clarifies the expectations though this is near impossible for operators to comply with.

    Alongside this, the GC is highlighting concerns about KYC being used as a barrier to withdrawal. I'm sure Max and Bryan can attest to regularly encountering situations where an operator doesn't have enough to actually justify non-payment so they're simply looking to make more and more invasive KYC requests, or pretend that they've not received submitted documents, to stall payment until the player gives up. To my mind that is a legitimate concern.

    TP
     
  20. Jun 27, 2017
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Bryan & Max aren't going - so it's just you and me buddy! :cool:

    KK
     
  22. Jun 27, 2017
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    That was my next point. :p


    That's the positive thing. It's frustrating for players to have to sit around and wait for their ID docs to be checked, and I know it's a fact that there are a number of unscrupulous operators who delay this is much as possible in order to tempt the player to play back his/her winnings.

    But there are some casinos, like Trada Casino that makes it super easy. As in the video portion of my review (Trada Casino Review) I state how intuitive it is to upload one's ID docs, and they were checked and approved within the hour. They are clearly setting an example here.
     
  24. Jun 27, 2017
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    That's a fair point, thread title tweaked accordingly.

    That is absolutely true and very much the case these days. I believe it's become virtually institutionalized in certain casino groups that KYC is being used as a road block to payment. I have literally had cases where the casinos demand notarized documents be sent via post to remote countries and it turns out the addresses given simply don't exist. All that effort on the player's part has one intention: to discourage players from pursuing the payments they are due. Admittedly that's pretty much a worst case example but as mentioned, KYC is being used to bog down the payment process more and more frequently.

    Look in the shadows, Bryan might be hiding there in a Marx Brothers disguise. ;)
     
  26. Jun 27, 2017
  27. BlaCGaming

    BlaCGaming Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany

    I think pre-play is stupid, instead a trada approach alongside registration would be perfect. You register, you are promted to upload docs and you can start playing. While you play your documents get checked and if you win you can go straight to the withdrawal with no delay. If this approach was a rule, operators would lose their ability to delay withdrawal based on KYC. Sure there might be cases where they need additional documents, but that shouldn´t be the norm.
     
  28. Jun 27, 2017
  29. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, but the players can help themselves here by seeing if there's an upload facility in the account section - I always send them, requested or not if this exists. OK 9/10 times it puts the kybosh on me as I don't end up withdrawing and I've done it for nothing but I don't need to worry on the rare occasions I manage to win.

    Simply make a folder and populate it with your KYC docs that have been accepted at other sites. All you have to do is update the statement/proof of address every 3 months. :thumbsup:

    Then get used to looking for the upload tabs at new casinos, or simply get on to CS and send them if possible.

    If the casino then doesn't verify them until you w/d then it's their foul, especially reading the UKGC notes above. And if they use it as justification to slow down cash-outs, you will then have valid cause for complaint.
     
  30. Jun 27, 2017
  31. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I see.....I'm 'buddy' now your first choices aren't available. :p

    Seriously, I'm sure we'll all meet up, the CM crew. :thumbsup:
     
  32. Jun 27, 2017
  33. goatwack

    goatwack enthused hangman CAG

    Occupation:
    Turns Tricks
    Location:
    Londonia
    How about having uniform KYC across all sites, so as to avoid confusion. That's what the UKGC should press, within a certain timeframe, say 24 hours.

    Problem is how different casinos expect different verification....it ought to be standard across the board ie passport, recent utilty bill, current debit/ credit card photo (not scans they never deem sufficient).

    Not selfie holding passport, two utilty bills, semen/ blood/ urine sample, a song & dance + waiting 48 hours or waiting five days, praying they'll grant you worthy of playing.

    I'm all for KYC regulations prior to being able to play, but only if all casinos follow the same rules set out plainly, and not leave it open to interpretation.

    But this is the limp-wristed UKGC we're talking about here! :(:cool:
     
  34. Jun 27, 2017
  35. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Ever since moving in December 2014 from "exclusive 32RED play" to trying multi-platform sites, I registered 50+ new accounts and stringently stuck to "pre-play" KYC, never depositing a single cent before it was done. I never waited more than a few hours, in many cases only minutes, to have it completed, and that no matter whether the site had an upload function or that I had to send the docs via email. However, I did mention my reluctance to deposit without KYC to either the Live Chat agent or in my email, I am 100% sure that always helped to get it done quickly.

    "Pre-Play" KYC would eliminate SE issues, ID fraudsters, multi-accounters, minors registering with their parent's or invented details, credit card fraud, e-wallet fraud....and that is just the tip of the iceberg, there are a lot more reasons that would speak for KYC before starting to play.

    At the same time the only thing against it is that players would walk away. I am convinced that players would not do so as they register to claim the welcome bonus, which are mostly 100% - 200%, hence they will wait a few hours to enjoy that extra perk.
     
  36. Jun 27, 2017
  37. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Yes I do exactly the same, even when there is no upload facility on the casino website I will contact CS and ask for the appropriate e-mailaddress to send my KYC documents.
    Saves a lot of hassle SHOULD you be able to make a withdrawal. ;):)
     
  38. Jun 27, 2017
  39. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    KYC policies need to be flexible enough to account for the individual situation. Where a photo comes through of a utility bill or ID that raises concerns about possible forgery then of course alternatives have to be requested. Where the operator has significant reason to believe that the person named on the account/passport is not the person actually operating the account then there has to be the the facility to further investigate this possibility (hence selfie with ID). Remember - the onus is squarely on the operator to take reasonable actions to prevent fraud. Their license depends on this.

    I agree that the Trada approach of offering document upload within the account is by far the best approach. Most players are going to manage to verify themselves while they play without issue. But this doesn't remove the need for the operator to review things beyond your ID before processing withdrawals and you will still see situations where delays occur due to flags other than ID.

    TP
     

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