Your Input Please UK Gambling Tax rise just announced

[dunover]

Literally 1 minute ago:

To compensate for the anticipated reduction in gambling tax revenues caused by the big reduction in FOBT maximum stakes, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has just announced a massive 6% (40% real cost) rise from 15% to 21% of the UK Remote Gaming tax.

Bad, bad news for UK-facing casinos already struggling with the removal of the accounting tax offset previously permitted for bonus/marketing offers.

 

[SpinUk]

Which means less bonuses again, as casino are taxed on these also. Great.

 

[TheAverageGuy]

Sounds very government-like.

Working as intended.

They did their part to protect their citizens from harm, they shouldn't be punished for that by losing revenue from the very thing they're protecting them from.

Much like the price of a package of cigarettes in Canada being 75-85% taxes, while they warn us of how terrible they are, implement plain packaging and ban advertising.

 

[goatwack]

Had to pluck the numbers from somewhere to mark the 'End of the era of austerity'

When smokes & alcohol taxation's already assured, why not pick on the next best thing, nothing like another Vice Tax hike to restore my faith in Government!

 

[colinsunderland]

no surprise there at all, government bow to tabloid press pressure to reduce the stakes on FOTB's, despite the fact it will most certainly cost 1000's of jobs, want the money back so increase tax for online casinos. When casinos pull out of the UK market because of this, they will increase the horse racing levy or suchlike to counter the loss in revenue.

 

[goatwack]

Here it is from the horse's mouth

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[dunover]

Here it is from the horse's mouth

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Wonder if it's what tipped Red Queen over the edge?

 

[goatwack]

It's actually quite a positive Budget for once, and with the media creating new annoying buzzwords, 'Fiscal Phil' must be positively glowing.

All these tax increases are going to do is shrink the market here, it won't just be tinpot casinos leaving but surely many good ones too. So that's going to drive punters towards all manner of foreign clipjoints

 

[aceking123]

Its a good thing its surely going to stop the weekly casinos starting up with many many casinos ive lost count of the number now.

Hopefully it shall syteam line many of them, the bonuses have been disappearing anyways & at least we dont have to keep jumping through hoops to get money.

It has to come from somewhere at least the taxes are not coming from your winnings.

 

[EkJR]

October 19 it comes in so a years notice. Agree on the overall budget, actually pretty decent for your average man/woman

 

[geordiecolin]

Literally 1 minute ago:

To compensate for the anticipated reduction in gambling tax revenues caused by the big reduction in FOBT maximum stakes, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has just announced a massive 6% (40% real cost) rise from 15% to 21% of the UK Remote Gaming tax.

Bad, bad news for UK-facing casinos already struggling with the removal of the accounting tax offset previously permitted for bonus/marketing offers.

I have long since abandoned checking on the amount of new casino's available to the UK market,but at one point it was an astonishing quantity.I posted some time ago that I anticipated that many would not last too long. My guess is that we are seeing the effects of a combo of owners opening up new sites to take advantage of new bonus seekers that they can sucker and the continual success of a handful of casinos over the past few years.
More and more often I am receiving notifications from casinos I had joined when I was way too green behind the ears to know better about investing my money in.

Do you suspect that these new levies will help sort the wheat from the chaff? Are you concerned that it will impact on affiliates income?
What will be the impact,and on who mostly?

 

[dunover]

I have long since abandoned checking on the amount of new casino's available to the UK market,but at one point it was an astonishing quantity.I posted some time ago that I anticipated that many would not last too long. My guess is that we are seeing the effects of a combo of owners opening up new sites to take advantage of new bonus seekers that they can sucker and the continual success of a handful of casinos over the past few years.
More and more often I am receiving notifications from casinos I had joined when I was way too green behind the ears to know better about investing my money in.

Do you suspect that these new levies will help sort the wheat from the chaff? Are you concerned that it will impact on affiliates income?
What will be the impact,and on who mostly?

I can see bigger casinos or groups effectively subsidizing UK bonuses from profits made in other countries, otherwise the bonuses will diminish. I can also see some more closures as it squeezes many sites out of the market. The effect would be consolidation of brands and licensees and if it went to the wire you could argue the only choice we'd have left eventually would be the big bookies' sites. Overall the cost of recruiting UK players is rising steadily and yes it will affect income if the ratio of new casinos/licensees begins to stall and then fall relatively to the bookies that have already saturated the market.

 

[geordiecolin]

I can see bigger casinos or groups effectively subsidizing UK bonuses from profits made in other countries, otherwise the bonuses will diminish. I can also see some more closures as it squeezes many sites out of the market. The effect would be consolidation of brands and licensees and if it went to the wire you could argue the only choice we'd have left eventually would be the big bookies' sites. Overall the cost of recruiting UK players is rising steadily and yes it will affect income if the ratio of new casinos/licensees begins to stall and then fall relatively to the bookies that have already saturated the market.

So in some ways for punters it will be a good thing? Surely Brexit is not part of the equation?

 

[colinsunderland]

I have long since abandoned checking on the amount of new casino's available to the UK market,but at one point it was an astonishing quantity.I posted some time ago that I anticipated that many would not last too long. My guess is that we are seeing the effects of a combo of owners opening up new sites to take advantage of new bonus seekers that they can sucker and the continual success of a handful of casinos over the past few years.
More and more often I am receiving notifications from casinos I had joined when I was way too green behind the ears to know better about investing my money in.

Do you suspect that these new levies will help sort the wheat from the chaff? Are you concerned that it will impact on affiliates income?
What will be the impact,and on who mostly?

From an affiliate point of view, I couldn't care less about new white label casinos starting up, they are, as a whole, a waste of time, there is the odd exception, but not many and don't understand why affiliates promote them. If this tax increase slows them down or stops them doing bonuses, so be it. A few years ago I would push new casinos, but found in almost every case, you would get bonus hunters, make a first deposit of £20 or so, take the bonus and never return. The problem is, most will never compete with the big bookies, or casinos (ie LeoVegas, Casumo, 888 etc), and unless they can match them for games and retention offers, them people will drift back to them. I never understand why casinos don't email you at least once a week, even if not with an offer, just with news about new games or whatever to remind people they are still there. There are dozens of casinos I'm a member of who I haven't had a single mail from since account opening. If they don't do any form of retention, than as an affiliate on rev share, why would I want to send them any customers. Skybet were by far the best of all the casinos I have ever promoted, easy to get new customers and I had almost a 50% rate of FTD customers making 3+ deposits, which is more than 10x the amount any other casino I promoted.

 

[Nicola]

Bad news, but should weed out some of the rogue white-labels that keep launching in this country.

To be honest, since last year I barely take bonuses anymore so if they were removed altogether I wouldn;t mind. Lot easier being able to cash in when you want without worrying about wagering.

 

[EkJR]

If you read closer it says on "game of chance" so it's not going to affect sports betting in that case? Slots, roulette likely to be the games this applies to.

What's the likely outcome? Less bonuses? Lower RTP?

 

[SpinUk]

If you read closer it says on "game of chance" so it's not going to affect sports betting in that case? Slots, roulette likely to be the games this applies to.

What's the likely outcome? Less bonuses? Lower RTP?

I cant see global developers lowering rtp for one market...

 

[KasinoKing]

I haven't read the article, nor do I know anything about how this tax is applied, but surely the casinos only pay tax on their net profit?
i.e. if they aren't making any money over and above what they need for their running costs, this wont effect them?
If that is the case, it shouldn't be forcing casinos out of business.

What it WILL do is take another chunk from affiliates, who seem to have to foot the bill for ALL 100% of the tax, and not just their RS% of it
So for example, our average VS commission will probably go down from 4% of GGR to 3%...
Happy days!

KK

 

[pinnit2014]

one issue could be the tax bill is worked out on the profit and loss account....but profit isn’t the same as cash (how many companies over the years had great profits but were basically cashless)Ergo, the tax liability could be problematic when it comes to actually paying it in real, hard cash?

Also, some of these may have investors/shareholders and it may not be an attractive proposition anymore?

 

[colinsunderland]

I haven't read the article, nor do I know anything about how this tax is applied, but surely the casinos only pay tax on their net profit?
i.e. if they aren't making any money over and above what they need for their running costs, this wont effect them?
If that is the case, it shouldn't be forcing casinos out of business.

What it WILL do is take another chunk from affiliates, who seem to have to foot the bill for ALL 100% of the tax, and not just their RS% of it
So for example, our average VS commission will probably go down from 4% of GGR to 3%...
Happy days!

KK

I don't think all affiliate programs do that do they? I know VS seem to, I genuinely have no idea why people promote them on RS considering how low the actual commission is. GIG also seem very low.

 

[zreb]

It has to come from somewhere at least the taxes are not coming from your winnings.

One way or another, the customer always ends up paying the taxes. In the short term, that might mean worse bonuses or promotions. In the long term, it might mean worse service or games with lower rtp that make it harder to win.

I cant see global developers lowering rtp for one market...

Maybe not directly and consciously, but every bit adds up. Casinos have to square their books up one way or another, so every additional cost will either need to be accounted for in decreased expenses or increased net revenues from players. Every factor that increases the cost to casinos - whether it's a good change of a bad one - will add a bit of pressure for something to change, and lowering RTP is one of the ways to achieve that. Though I wouldn't expect anything drastic unless there are equally drastic global changes, but maybe a slip from the ~96% range for new slots to the ~95% range, something like that.

Most likely, a bit of pressure would be relieved by less profitable casinos closing, but the remaining casinos still would not gain enough players to offset the net loss. Of course, this is just one factor among a great many, some bad, some probably good.

 

[Biti]

I cant see global developers lowering rtp for one market...

In general, RTPs are decreasing. NetEnt is from high 96,xx or 97 to low 96,xx. Thunderkick also lowered their RTPs. Other brands, like Play 'n Go are offering various variants. Providers like MG always do mysterious about RTPs. I think also in other (over-)taxed markets casinos are looking for lower RTPs.

In some markets taxes are up to 35%.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'll stay on board as long as RTPs are the right side of 95%, it's entirely possible to create a good random game with a decent player experience at an RTP of 95% or better, as long as the variance is sensible. (Just take that 180,000x stake win off the paytable and distribute it elsewhere...., I'm looking at you, Peking Luck.)

Let's see how it pans out, paying taxes isn't a bad a thing, it's what pays for ever so slightly important stuff like, y'know, hospitals and schools and the police and all the trappings of a modern first world democratic society - everyone should pay their fair share.

 

[mack341]

I have the distinct feeling this is a stupid question ... but here goes: will the online operations of uk companies, separately based in places like gibraltar i.e. william hill. gala coral etc.. have to pay this uk gambling tax on their revenue/profit from uk customers playing online?

 

[trancemonkey]

I'll stay on board as long as RTPs are the right side of 95%, it's entirely possible to create a good random game with a decent player experience at an RTP of 95% or better, as long as the variance is sensible. (Just take that 180,000x stake win off the paytable and distribute it elsewhere...., I'm looking at you, Peking Luck.)

Let's see how it pans out, paying taxes isn't a bad a thing, it's what pays for ever so slightly important stuff like, y'know, hospitals and schools and the police and all the trappings of a modern first world democratic society - everyone should pay their fair share.

I have to do games much lower than 90%... You don't have to have 95 but the higher the RTP the more big wins we can give