UK Gambling Laws

[Petunia]

--- PS: And while I am here, let me say something else too. I am not a Brit. Maybe it is a good thing then. I believe the majority of British children (and again this is IMO and based on personal experience) are spoiled, undisciplined and pampered to the degree where they KNOW they don't have to take responsibility for their actions (just switch on the "The bank of Mom&Dad")
because they will be bailed out. Again. It is up to the PARANTS to TEACH their children how to behave, react and act. THESE are our Adults of the future. I have noticed that the British kids are 'angels' to their parents, BUT sometimes not relatively so. IE: Child came to mother, with a stab wound. Child scream blue murder, and name the person to blamed.
Mother fly out of the door, and start raising hell....

What mother did NOT know?
a) Child hit the blamed over the head with a baseball bat
b) Because said blamed took the drugs of child!
It is all relative; in the END, but not before.

Take this principle and apply it to the gambling industry.

 

[drkasper]

QUOTE: A memo written by Nick Bent, Ms Jowell's special adviser, says the Gambling Bill "will be revenue neutral for HM Treasury". Leading tax analysts say for this to happen the tax rate would have to drop from the current level of 40 per cent to between 15 and 20 per cent.UNQUOTE

Basically, the US casino operators are allegedly threatenting that if the taxes aren't cut, they won't invest - so there is a possibility of a tax cut.

However, there's still the issue for online casinos - even if taxation is cut to 15-20% there's little to no incentive for them to move onshore from their current offshore jurisdiction where tax rates are much lower - and there's nothing in the gambling bill that stops offshore casinos (european ones) from advertising online.

As for the 24 hour cooling off period - who does this affect? For the UK gambler, its simply a matter of emailing a membership form 24 hours before - or faxing. You don't have to visit the casino to become a member - so no hardship there. However, if you're an overseas visitor staying in the UK for one night - and you want to go to a casino - You can't because of the 24 hour membership - pretty stupid and making the casinos lose out on potential players..I can't see how losing the 24 hour membership laws is really that big a deal..

 

[oldman]

Petunia: Considering your words regarding spoilt kids, - well I absolutely agree with you. And it happens not only in Britain, and I think you know it. And it happens with adults as well. I think this is the fate of civilization. First we fight for our rights, then we build highly developed civilization and democracy, - and then we are getting spoilt by well-being. And that's our destiny. How sad.

 

[Petunia]

-- Old man, you are right. It happens all over the world. I think too that this is a generation thing to. I think the 30+ now are/were the LAST generation that knew what 'hard times' meant, and not to trivialise the fact that there are still areas of poverty etc. We are to blame, at times, for the insolance of our youth. THESE are the leaders of tomorrow. God save the queen, but keep a keen eye on her children!! ----

 

[jetset]

Petunia: Considering your words regarding spoilt kids, - well I absolutely agree with you. And it happens not only in Britain, and I think you know it. And it happens with adults as well. I think this is the fate of civilization. First we fight for our rights, then we build highly developed civilization and democracy, - and then we are getting spoilt by well-being. And that's our destiny. How sad.

We're going off at something of a tangent here, but speaking personally I gotta say ain't it the truth, oldman!

And as our lives become easier in these civilisations we have developed we become "softer" and more prepared to appease than defend ourselves and the values that made our civilisations great imo.

Of course, it may also be that as individuals, as we grow older we tend to become critical of the following generations and the current state of society. Remember when you were younger and the old farts used to tell you how great and honourable things were "in the old days"? !! It's a thought.

 

[Petunia]

We're going off at something of a tangent here, but speaking personally I gotta say ain't it the truth, oldman!

Of course, it may also be that as individuals, as we grow older we tend to become critical of the following generations and the current state of society. Remember when you were younger and the old farts used to tell you how great and honourable things were "in the old days"? !! It's a thought.

Jetset- FOR SURE I remember, but you know what.... I still had to listen to my teacher, my mother thought nothing of following up a threat with a tight smack about the tjops (no, she never did beat me into that coma she promised - and I so dearly wished for)

In the end it is all relevant. Regulating the industry really has no benefit to anyone but the government regulating it... yet, having said that... Some keep their jobs, others GET jobs and even more can be fed from this very same governments money-bags through "benefits" such as the DOLE etc.

South Africa is going the same route, and I am saying "Go for it." If I don't like it, I will teach against it. C-H-O-I-C-E. Point.

ps: And we need to practice what we preach. If we don't like it, DONT do it,and DONT take money from the industry IN ANY FORM what-so-ever!

 

[oldman]

Jetset: do not agree that we have went off a tangent here. I was just generalizing the tendencies. Sometimes it's really useful, don't you think?

Petunia: Action lady, do you believe that humanity can resolve all its problems? I mean do you think we just need time? several generations?

 

[oldman]

And getting back to the "tangent" :

One minister said that the government has started sounding out Labour MPs to count the number of rebels. Some MPs are calling for an upper limit on the number of new casinos across the country to be written into the Bill. The minister also said that they wont lose the Bill, but there will have to be concessions. The rebels are demanding that the Government drops from the Gambling Bill the proposal to allow a new breed of mega-casinos to be created. And most members of the Labour left-wing Campaign Group of MPs are threatening to vote against the Bills second reading on Monday.
A former cabinet minister has also indicated he will vote against the measure along with the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats.
The MPs are concerned that casinos could encourage poorer punters to get deeper into debt.
Culture Secretary, Tessa Jowell, blamed the opponents of the legislation of being snobbish

 

[jetset]

QUOTE do not agree that we have went off a tangent here. I was just generalizing the tendencies. Sometimes it's really useful, don't you think?unquote

OK...and I was actually agreeing with your post!

 

[oldman]

 

[Petunia]

-- Old man: Sadly, my answer to your question is "No." We will not as a race, solve our problems no matter how much time we have! However, that does not mean that we should all turn a blind eye, or yell 'wolf' when we feel like it. I think, with time, we will mess things up to a point beyond return! Maybe that is just it. Maybe we should not try to fix is, but actually start 'over'.

 

[KasinoKing]

The subject matter of this thread reminds me a lot of a conversation from the film K-PAX!
(For those who haven't seen it, Kevin Spacey is 'Prot' who looks human, but claims to be from K-PAX - a planet 1,000 light years away. Jeff Bridges plays 'Mark' the psychiatrist trying to 'cure' him, but is also struggling to not believe him!)
They are talking about the utopian societal structure on K-PAX, and get round to the subject of government. It goes something like this:-

Prot: We have no government - there is no need for one.
Mark: But what if someone does something wrong - who makes up your laws?
Prot: We have no laws, no lawyers! (Smiles)
Mark: No laws?... Then how do people know right from wrong?
Prot: All beings know right from wrong.

Those last 6 words sum it all up really. End of point.

 

[oldman]

KasinoKing: interesting approach to the issue...

Petunia: are you religious?

 

[oldman]

Scary "gambler"

Petunia: there's another good example of political "gambler" (who gambles joyfully both with lives and money).
President George W. Bush has been named Movie Villain of the Year as he topped a poll of a British magazine readers ahead of next week's US Presidential elections (but, perhaps, you already know it ).
Bush won the dubious accolade, announced on Wednesday, for his unintentional and very un-actorish part in Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11, beating a shortlist of fictional film bad guys.

The president was voted scarier than characters such as Doctor Octopus, played by Alfred Molina, in Spider-Man2; the cannibalistic Leatherface in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre; Gollum from The Lord Of The Rings trilogy; and Elle Driver, the assassin played by Daryl Hannah in Kill Bill.

Almost 10,000 people voted in the survey, carried out by Total Film Magazine.

I just wonder how long the world will be ruled by such "scary gamblers"? and it has been happening for centures and centures... We do not change, Petunia...

 

[Petunia]

Old man-- Just like I said, no amount of time wil have this 'human race'.
Am I religious. I am spiritual. Religion has nothing to do with it. (IMO)
And yeah. Mr. Bush.
There had been many before him, but somehow I don't think there will be that many after him. Hey. Do they have gambling on alien ships? I would much rather go through a probe if I can 'play' in piece! Hehehe... with player advantage of course.

 

[oldman]

Religion matters

You see, religion does matter... being not too religious myself, am still intrigued with that mistical belief that only god (Christ) can save and release the humanity... I believe my self, truly speaking. Even cold logic is getting pissed off with the all bullshit that is "hurricanning" around...

but I just think.. what if really there's no god and we are just left alone with all our supposed villainies and virtues..?
(but yeah, it mostly deals with being "spiritual" than "religious" (in your case))

P.S.
Spiritual action lady, what if Bryan and the rest will consider "this" to be SPAM and just throw us out for that philosophy?

 

[Petunia]

-- Old man: I have been thrown out on my ear for many of my opinions, stances and believes. I do not think that the crew here, nor Bryan would chuck us out if we bring our points across in a civil, ordered and of couse, topical manner.

Now with regards to good and evil. It is all about the person, and their intention. IMO, it is the same with everything. Were the salom witches evil? Maybe, but not because they were witches!! Is gambling evil? Nope, it is a game, a test of skill and knowladge... could it have 'evil' influences on a person? Maybe, but by itself, it is nothing. A table, a few games, a toy. Seriously! One cannot blame a doll, gambling, a song, tv, etc etc for the 'evil' of the world, but the pple who USE IT as an instrument.... hmmmm.... I can debate for a long time on this. But I will not, and I will make my final point to be this:
"Take heed, gambling is but a game, as is pokemon, and cabbage patch kids and santa. By itself, it is nothing. It has no power over anyone, nor does it 'drive' you to do certain things. Your own choice, will intent, action and reactions is what is 'evil' or 'good'. How you apply those to the above mentioned is your CHOICE, and you are the only one in control of it. I do not think the goverment should raise our children, or protect them. Us as parents, adults, friends, kids, should own our ways and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!"
Is all I have to say.............. for now.

 

[KasinoKing]

Excellent post, Petunia, very well put!

If I may just refer back to my previous post about K-PAX, this was saying the exact same thing as you. Its all about CHOICE.
Prot said All beings know right from wrong;

The Burglar KNOWS its wrong to burgle,
The Rapist KNOWS its wrong to rape,
The Murderer KNOWS its wrong to murder,
The Drug Addict KNOWS its wrong to do drugs,
The Gambling Addict KNOWS its wrong to gamble with money he cant afford to lose money he needs to run his car, clothe & feed his children, pay his mortgage, reduce his credit card bill.

The vast majority of us make the right choice. We CHOSE not to burgle, rape, murder, do drugs, or gamble beyond our means.
But however unfortunate, annoying and down right frustrating it is, we MUST have laws to protect the innocent victims of, and the individuals themselves, who make a different choice to us.

The law (in England at least) is a complete ass! But it is a necessary ass.

PS. I wonder if they have casinos on K-PAX..?

 

[Petunia]

King,
Precisely! So if you don't like that ass, move somewhere else and see how much you like theirs!!

---And thank you for the fish and everything!! (Douglas Adams)

Or in our beloved Garfield/Rodriques' words: And thanks for your time, and you can thank me for mine, and now that that's said, forget it!---

 

[caruso]

My apologies for going back to the actual topic.

Seems that evil cow Jowell took a pasting in the chamber last night. I forgot all about it, wish I'd watched it. Apparently they've backed down from infinite mega-casinos to a few "pilot projects". Even this is too much, since it represents the thin end of the wedge. The pilots will obviously "work"...and we're back to where we started. However, there seems to be something about local decisions taken on whether a particular project is to be implemented or not. Given the extent of the opposition, that may be a good thing. "Pilot" projects remain undesirable, however.

Someone suggested the membership and 24-hour period "makes no difference". Of course it does. Someone drunk, angry or otherwise unbalanced and lacking control could walk into a casino and behave in an otherwise irresponsible manner with his money. Under the CURRENT system, this cannot happen: unbalanced individual walks in, wants to gamble, gets told he needs to 1) apply and 2) wait 24 hours; unbalnced individual walks out and forgets all about it. I would imagine that's why that enlightend rule was originaly put in place, and it's excellent.

The suggestion that pokemon and gambling are "comparable" because they're both games is ludicrous. Gambling involves wagering money. Hello??

Good developments all round. At the very least, a spanner has been put in the works. At most, the American casino industry has just pissed hundreds of millions of lobbying dollars down the drain. Oh, how unhappy would that make me.

 

[Petunia]

--- Caruso, my child had 'won' an art-set off a poke Mn game. She has also 'lost' a Barbie in a Gameboy yogioh (i think) game (Same day!). She is SEVEN. Nope, they don't gamble for money, but it is a gamble none the less. She had to take back the art-set, and of course, the child's mother would not have her kid give back the Barbie, as she put it "It was won fair and square". Fair enough. My dear one had to learn RIGHT THERE AND THEN, that if you make a decision (a.k.a. choice!) you are going to have to stick to it, and if you mess up, you will pay the price. Her price was a Barbie. The child's mother thought it was okay. I did not. Now YOU tell me.

No they dont use money HALLOOOOOOO but they find other means. AND THAT IS OKAY by you? Its not by me. THIS is what I have been trying to say. Do not straddle the fence. You either do or you dont. There is no grey area as far as I am concerned.

 

[nafanny29]

At most, the American casino industry has just pissed hundreds of millions of lobbying dollars down the drain. Oh, how unhappy would that make me.

Like it!!!

But if there is $$$ in it for Screw Labour it will happen wheather the people want it or not IMHO

 

[caruso]

LOL, it's nothing about what the people want, it's about electoral damage. That's the bottom line. However much money the American casino industry throws at them they won't jeopardise the next election, or even the decent handful of votes that would swing it for Michael & Co. who apparently aren't too far behind in the polls and for obviously political reasons are opposing the bill. The danger is ANY opening of the door. Labour or Tory, post-election we'll see a surprisingly coincidental softening of the "moral" stance. If the bill has been well and truly scuppered at that point, or at least if there is legislation in place for councils to scupper those "pilot projects" based on their constituents' opposition, it looks good.

Those tax dollars won't do any of them any good if the're not in power.

 

[caruso]

I read in one of the Sunday papers that plans are afoot on the part of the American casino industry to sue the UK government for leading them up the garden path and so pissing all their lobbying cash away.

Wonder if Tony feels like refunding them their $100,000,000?

 

[nafanny29]

Interesting news!! Can the govenment actually be sued

Im still of the opinion that we will get these mega casinos eventually but like anything it this wonderful country it just might take a few years