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UK Gambling Act: delayed

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casinomeister, Sep 25, 2014.

    Sep 25, 2014
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    From the UK Gaming Commission home page:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    So people have a little bit of time on their hands.
     
    16 people like this.
  2. Sep 25, 2014
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Yeah the trial concluded today the and the judge basically said she couldn't make a decision in time because of the complexities.
     
  4. Sep 25, 2014
  5. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Who's challenging this in court and on what grounds?
     
  6. Sep 25, 2014
  7. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    As ever it was not quite that simple - yesterday the judge said they would need longer than until the 1st October but also refused the GBGA request for a delay. Today the DCMS and UKGC were back and they offered the one month delay.

    Why? who knows but to speculate they have 161 applications to do anyway and this delay would likely play well if and when the GBGA go to the European Court, they look reasonable and flexible not arbitrary and excessive as the GBGA are claiming.
     
  8. Sep 26, 2014
  9. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Pinnacle sports staying in the UK market another month due to this delay :)

    Now that is good for players.
     
  10. Oct 8, 2014
  11. sscrabble

    sscrabble Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    accountancy
    Location:
    UK
    Have the court made any decision yet ?
     
  12. Oct 11, 2014
  13. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Judge threw out the GBGA case, even made them pay £100k to the UKGC costs,

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    I quote the ruling from here, quite long but it is public domain stuff no IP restriction
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    All 96 pages here You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Oct 11, 2014
  15. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    On a side note, how cool is that? to be working as a Judge, when your name is Justice Green! :lolup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 11, 2014
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Their bias towards protecting the business interests of their licensees over the protection of customers has just bitten them in the arse. It's the GRA that claimed consumers who complained were mostly sore losers or "whinging bonus abusers".

    I expect they lost the argument over discrimination because of the ease with which operators could apply for a UK license, and the continuation license scheme that allowed those who served UK customers already to be able to provide unbroken service until their application was decided.

    They lost the "illicit market" argument by their own collective actions, it was clear that unlike the USA, operators were voluntarily closing their doors to UK players where they didn't intend to apply for a UK license.

    On the plus side, operators have been given another month before being forced to pull out or get a UK license, but I am wondering whether those operators who hung on hoping for a favourable ruling will now "play fair" by giving UK players the extra month they promised, or whether they will just close to the UK overnight without notice now that the ruling has made the outcome inevitable.

    Operators have been given more time under the continuation arrangements, so if any want to change their minds and stay in the UK after all, they still have time to apply for a continuation license rather than having to pull out on November 1st.
     
  18. Oct 11, 2014
  19. sscrabble

    sscrabble Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    accountancy
    Location:
    UK
    When has the date been extended to ? I would have thought most would only pull out a day or two before the deadline
     
  20. Oct 11, 2014
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    1st November.

    We were seeing operators pull out long before the original Oct 1st deadline, often giving little or no notice to players. This caused problems where players were competing in tournaments spanning several days, or taking part in longer term promotions. Although players' accounts were migrated, their promotions and tournament positions were not. The lack of notice meant that players could not make an informed choice as to whether or not to begin a tournament or promotion. We now have the same problem again, but with a new date. If the casinos could give players some certainty by confirming that they will be closed, migrated, whatever on a given date like Oct 31st, then they could choose only to start tournaments that end before then. Given that casinos are not prepared to make such announcements, players can only assume that they are not necessarily going to allow them to play right up to the 31st October.

    Some operators had already acted in advance of the court case & delay, and so could not take advantage of an extra month of UK players' money. Those that did take advantage had to postpone plans to migrate UK players almost at the last minute, and some had planned to close a week or two before the deadline, rather than allow UK players to stick around until Sept 30th.

    The issue for UK players is that we can't trust them to give us enough notice, we are taking a gamble every day that the next day we can still log in to our account and continue whatever tournament or promotion we were playing.

    These was one casino that closed to UK players without notice, and then told them they had been migrated, but that if they were in the middle of meeting WR on a bonus, their bonus and WINNINGS so far would be confiscated, rather than migrated. They considered this perfectly fair because the cash balances were not being lost. The players however held a different view.

    From a business perspective, there is no real value in keeping hold of a group of players that have to be ditched in a couple of weeks. They may as well ditch them right away and move on. Casinos are looking to hang on to existing players as well as gain new players that they hope will stick around for long enough to recoup the initial marketing costs, including the welcome bonus that is often +EV being used as a marketing "loss leader" to get new players through the door.

    The court case gave them a chance that the act would have to be canned and resubmitted to parliament, which could have delayed it by YEARS, rather than months. This WOULD have made it worth while hanging on in the UK, and those operators that acted early would have been kicking themselves.
     
  22. Oct 11, 2014
  23. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    It was extended to the 1st November. In the ruling - which really demolishes every single argument put up by the GBGA - the judge explains that he was able to issue a ruling before 1st October but that his full written response would be yesterday. The UKGC chose to delay a month to get the full ruling at one time, this has the advantage of dampening bitching and moaning and giving them clarity but I wonder if the extra month was not of some other benefit to the UKGC who are likely a bit swamped right now.

    It was a nice excuse to slide the implementation date a month, after having flushed out licence applications. I suspect that they took the opportunity to reschedule not through fear of losing the case, the ruling is so overwhelming and was expected so I doubt they were worried, I guess that the extra month was taken gratefully.
     
  24. Oct 11, 2014
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    On a second side note; how cool is that? The judge deciding on the licensing of online casinos is called Mr Green! :D

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Oct 11, 2014
  27. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Non UK players in grey or black markets are also likely to get impacted as the discussions over legal justifications for Grey markets are being dealt with as we speak. PokerStars out of 30 countries already, Ladbrokes out of Canada (most likely a business decision pushed forward), the Bet365 article attacking their China operation, which IMHO looks like a piece partly inspired by competitors who don't serve China and want to hurt Bet365 is also a live issue. You must register/login in order to see the link.

    We have a pretty good idea of who has applied to stay in the UK now, what we don't yet have is a clear idea of what countries they may pull out of.

    That list of UK applicants should mean that UK players can make a sensible choice between now and the end of the month re tournaments/promotions.
     
  28. Oct 11, 2014
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    We can. but most UK players interact with the promotional mailers they get from various casinos. Fortune Lounge are still sending me mailers as though nothing has changed, or will change in the future. Even a UK player who knew about the changes could easily believe this was a sign that the group was NOT pulling out. Some may not have heard about the delay, and may thus think the dust has already settled now that it's October, with a number of operators already having pulled out.

    It is still rumour, not factual announcement, that is telling me that Fortune Lounge ARE going to be pulling the plug soon, and that I should avoid falling for the mailers.

    The only sure way is to ONLY deposit at sites showing up as UK licensed on the UKGC website. This will err on the side of caution, with players avoiding a few sites that are sticking around due to data delays on the UKGC site, rather than risking getting caught out in an overnight shut out.
     
  30. Oct 11, 2014
  31. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Fortune Lounge Change mind regarding UK PLayers??

    Hi
    I've had a quick 'search' around before posting this however apologies if I've overlooked the obvious.

    Fortune Lounge group (I use Platinum Play casino a lot) originally e-mailed and told me via live chat it was going to pull out of the UK market.

    However they continue to email 2-3 times per week so I thought another visit to live chat.

    They then broke the news that they are staying for UK player, I responded by asking 'Until 1st November due to delay? - or for the forseeable? - This the chat agent seemed unsure of. Do any of you guys know? It would be good to know I have an alternative download casino to use and can wave good bye to Betway where I never have any luck - Cheers!
     
  32. Oct 11, 2014
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I am pretty sure this is simply a delay till 1st November. It just illustrates the problem players are having with deliberate lack of information from the casinos, and presumably CS have been kept in the dark too. All CS know is that UK players are still being serviced right now, whereas they should have been migrated at the end of September.

    The only way to be sure is to wait until November, by which time FL will either need a UK license, or will have to be acting illegally if they carry on accepting bets from UK players.
     
  34. Oct 12, 2014
  35. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    I'd suggest asking the Gambling Commission if they have applied for a licence yet. The new deadline is 23 Oct at the latest to apply. Yhey should be able to confirm if they have had an application, it is a perfectly legit question.
     
  36. Oct 12, 2014
  37. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I can say that 32red did a good turn with the new accounts, Now receive emails with the go wild details, Yes still received the bonus ect but one point to make is that the loyalty points did not go on to account,

    I am pretty sure that casino.com was out? but still receiving emails, Any body update me on this, Cheers
     
  38. Oct 12, 2014
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think their system is that they will add applicants to the list as fast as they can, but they have also agreed to accept applications "in confidence", which means they will not necessarily be free to say whether a casino not on the list has applied or not.

    My way of dealing with this is that I now ONLY play at casinos that are already on the list, or who have made it clear they are applying. Granted, I have lost out on 2 months of participation at FL, but the problem has been that only hindsight could tell me this. Had I continued playing at another casino who suddenly pulled out without any notice, I would be trying to clean up a mess of part finished tournaments, unwagered bonuses, etc. Instead, I have been enjoying "normal service", managing to stay clear of many of the problems others have faced due to the migrations and closures. It's the CASINOS that have lost out by failing to keep me well informed. FL have lost 2 months of potential deposits. Roxy Palace has seen £3000 in deposits over the last week that is 100% down to the fact that by taking on a migrating player database, they are now 100% "in the UK for keeps", and so I should not have to be worrying that one morning I will log in and find myself migrated elsewhere or closed out.

    Until it's all over, I will not be joining any new casinos to replace the ones that have closed to UK players.
     

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