UK Gambling Act: delayed

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
From the UK Gaming Commission home page:

Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act

Due to a High Court challenge, DCMS will be taking the necessary steps to postpone this legislation coming into force until 1 November 2014. This will allow a judgment to be made without undue time pressure.
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So people have a little bit of time on their hands.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah the trial concluded today the and the judge basically said she couldn't make a decision in time because of the complexities.
 

Richas

Senior Member
Yeah the trial concluded today the and the judge basically said she couldn't make a decision in time because of the complexities.
As ever it was not quite that simple - yesterday the judge said they would need longer than until the 1st October but also refused the GBGA request for a delay. Today the DCMS and UKGC were back and they offered the one month delay.

Why? who knows but to speculate they have 161 applications to do anyway and this delay would likely play well if and when the GBGA go to the European Court, they look reasonable and flexible not arbitrary and excessive as the GBGA are claiming.
 

fun4all

Senior Member
Pinnacle sports staying in the UK market another month due to this delay :)

Now that is good for players.
 

Richas

Senior Member
Have the court made any decision yet ?
Judge threw out the GBGA case, even made them pay £100k to the UKGC costs,

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I quote the ruling from here, quite long but it is public domain stuff no IP restriction
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In a 96 page Judgment, Mr Justice Green rejected the GBGA’s claim that the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Act 2014 infringed EU or domestic law. In what he stated was in his judgment “a clear cut case” he ruled that the new regime was:

“..neither disproportionate, nor discriminatory, nor is it irrational. The new regime serves a series of legitimate objectives. There is no reason to doubt Parliament’s judgement that it will achieve a reasonable degree of effectiveness and there is no proper basis for concluding that it is or will be discriminatory in its effects. Further, I reject the submission that the new regime will create perverse incentives and lead to the creation of an illicit market of unscrupulous service providers.”
In his judgment, the documentary evidence from 2010 onwards (when the UK Government began to consult over changes to the licensing regime) recorded “a strong and consistent justification based upon consumer protection and the protection of public order” and that “these were objectives the Government and Parliament were entitled to pursue”.

He concluded that: “Consumers want to avoid being cheated. They want winnings to be paid. They want their personal data to be kept confidential. They want to have confidence that the operators with whom they deal are properly regulated in these respects and that in the event of a problem they can contact the regulator easily. The State wants consumers to be protected from addiction and wants those who profit from gambling to assume some level of responsibility for the social ills that gambling can lead to. In my view a regime that does no more than bring service providers within the confines of a consumer and public order oriented regime in the State that they target serves entirely legitimate objectives.”
All 96 pages here
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Their bias towards protecting the business interests of their licensees over the protection of customers has just bitten them in the arse. It's the GRA that claimed consumers who complained were mostly sore losers or "whinging bonus abusers".

I expect they lost the argument over discrimination because of the ease with which operators could apply for a UK license, and the continuation license scheme that allowed those who served UK customers already to be able to provide unbroken service until their application was decided.

They lost the "illicit market" argument by their own collective actions, it was clear that unlike the USA, operators were voluntarily closing their doors to UK players where they didn't intend to apply for a UK license.

On the plus side, operators have been given another month before being forced to pull out or get a UK license, but I am wondering whether those operators who hung on hoping for a favourable ruling will now "play fair" by giving UK players the extra month they promised, or whether they will just close to the UK overnight without notice now that the ruling has made the outcome inevitable.

Operators have been given more time under the continuation arrangements, so if any want to change their minds and stay in the UK after all, they still have time to apply for a continuation license rather than having to pull out on November 1st.
 

sscrabble

Full Member
When has the date been extended to ? I would have thought most would only pull out a day or two before the deadline
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
When has the date been extended to ? I would have thought most would only pull out a day or two before the deadline
1st November.

We were seeing operators pull out long before the original Oct 1st deadline, often giving little or no notice to players. This caused problems where players were competing in tournaments spanning several days, or taking part in longer term promotions. Although players' accounts were migrated, their promotions and tournament positions were not. The lack of notice meant that players could not make an informed choice as to whether or not to begin a tournament or promotion. We now have the same problem again, but with a new date. If the casinos could give players some certainty by confirming that they will be closed, migrated, whatever on a given date like Oct 31st, then they could choose only to start tournaments that end before then. Given that casinos are not prepared to make such announcements, players can only assume that they are not necessarily going to allow them to play right up to the 31st October.

Some operators had already acted in advance of the court case & delay, and so could not take advantage of an extra month of UK players' money. Those that did take advantage had to postpone plans to migrate UK players almost at the last minute, and some had planned to close a week or two before the deadline, rather than allow UK players to stick around until Sept 30th.

The issue for UK players is that we can't trust them to give us enough notice, we are taking a gamble every day that the next day we can still log in to our account and continue whatever tournament or promotion we were playing.

These was one casino that closed to UK players without notice, and then told them they had been migrated, but that if they were in the middle of meeting WR on a bonus, their bonus and WINNINGS so far would be confiscated, rather than migrated. They considered this perfectly fair because the cash balances were not being lost. The players however held a different view.

From a business perspective, there is no real value in keeping hold of a group of players that have to be ditched in a couple of weeks. They may as well ditch them right away and move on. Casinos are looking to hang on to existing players as well as gain new players that they hope will stick around for long enough to recoup the initial marketing costs, including the welcome bonus that is often +EV being used as a marketing "loss leader" to get new players through the door.

The court case gave them a chance that the act would have to be canned and resubmitted to parliament, which could have delayed it by YEARS, rather than months. This WOULD have made it worth while hanging on in the UK, and those operators that acted early would have been kicking themselves.
 

Richas

Senior Member
When has the date been extended to ? I would have thought most would only pull out a day or two before the deadline
It was extended to the 1st November. In the ruling - which really demolishes every single argument put up by the GBGA - the judge explains that he was able to issue a ruling before 1st October but that his full written response would be yesterday. The UKGC chose to delay a month to get the full ruling at one time, this has the advantage of dampening bitching and moaning and giving them clarity but I wonder if the extra month was not of some other benefit to the UKGC who are likely a bit swamped right now.

It was a nice excuse to slide the implementation date a month, after having flushed out licence applications. I suspect that they took the opportunity to reschedule not through fear of losing the case, the ruling is so overwhelming and was expected so I doubt they were worried, I guess that the extra month was taken gratefully.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Judge threw out the GBGA case, even made them pay £100k to the UKGC costs,....Mr Justice Green rejected the GBGA’s claim
On a side note, how cool is that? to be working as a Judge, when your name is Justice Green! :lolup:
On a second side note; how cool is that? The judge deciding on the licensing of online casinos is called Mr Green! :D

KK
 

Richas

Senior Member
The issue for UK players is that we can't trust them to give us enough notice, we are taking a gamble every day that the next day we can still log in to our account and continue whatever tournament or promotion we were playing.
Non UK players in grey or black markets are also likely to get impacted as the discussions over legal justifications for Grey markets are being dealt with as we speak. PokerStars out of 30 countries already, Ladbrokes out of Canada (most likely a business decision pushed forward), the Bet365 article attacking their China operation, which IMHO looks like a piece partly inspired by competitors who don't serve China and want to hurt Bet365 is also a live issue.
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We have a pretty good idea of who has applied to stay in the UK now, what we don't yet have is a clear idea of what countries they may pull out of.

That list of UK applicants should mean that UK players can make a sensible choice between now and the end of the month re tournaments/promotions.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Non UK players in grey or black markets are also likely to get impacted as the discussions over legal justifications for Grey markets are being dealt with as we speak. PokerStars out of 30 countries already, Ladbrokes out of Canada (most likely a business decision pushed forward), the Bet365 article attacking their China operation, which IMHO looks like a piece partly inspired by competitors who don't serve China and want to hurt Bet365 is also a live issue.
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We have a pretty good idea of who has applied to stay in the UK now, what we don't yet have is a clear idea of what countries they may pull out of.

That list of UK applicants should mean that UK players can make a sensible choice between now and the end of the month re tournaments/promotions.
We can. but most UK players interact with the promotional mailers they get from various casinos. Fortune Lounge are still sending me mailers as though nothing has changed, or will change in the future. Even a UK player who knew about the changes could easily believe this was a sign that the group was NOT pulling out. Some may not have heard about the delay, and may thus think the dust has already settled now that it's October, with a number of operators already having pulled out.

It is still rumour, not factual announcement, that is telling me that Fortune Lounge ARE going to be pulling the plug soon, and that I should avoid falling for the mailers.

The only sure way is to ONLY deposit at sites showing up as UK licensed on the UKGC website. This will err on the side of caution, with players avoiding a few sites that are sticking around due to data delays on the UKGC site, rather than risking getting caught out in an overnight shut out.
 

Jono777

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
mm4
Fortune Lounge Change mind regarding UK PLayers??

Hi
I've had a quick 'search' around before posting this however apologies if I've overlooked the obvious.

Fortune Lounge group (I use Platinum Play casino a lot) originally e-mailed and told me via live chat it was going to pull out of the UK market.

However they continue to email 2-3 times per week so I thought another visit to live chat.

They then broke the news that they are staying for UK player, I responded by asking 'Until 1st November due to delay? - or for the forseeable? - This the chat agent seemed unsure of. Do any of you guys know? It would be good to know I have an alternative download casino to use and can wave good bye to Betway where I never have any luck - Cheers!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Hi
I've had a quick 'search' around before posting this however apologies if I've overlooked the obvious.

Fortune Lounge group (I use Platinum Play casino a lot) originally e-mailed and told me via live chat it was going to pull out of the UK market.

However they continue to email 2-3 times per week so I thought another visit to live chat.

They then broke the news that they are staying for UK player, I responded by asking 'Until 1st November due to delay? - or for the forseeable? - This the chat agent seemed unsure of. Do any of you guys know? It would be good to know I have an alternative download casino to use and can wave good bye to Betway where I never have any luck - Cheers!
I am pretty sure this is simply a delay till 1st November. It just illustrates the problem players are having with deliberate lack of information from the casinos, and presumably CS have been kept in the dark too. All CS know is that UK players are still being serviced right now, whereas they should have been migrated at the end of September.

The only way to be sure is to wait until November, by which time FL will either need a UK license, or will have to be acting illegally if they carry on accepting bets from UK players.
 

Richas

Senior Member
I am pretty sure this is simply a delay till 1st November. It just illustrates the problem players are having with deliberate lack of information from the casinos, and presumably CS have been kept in the dark too. All CS know is that UK players are still being serviced right now, whereas they should have been migrated at the end of September.

The only way to be sure is to wait until November, by which time FL will either need a UK license, or will have to be acting illegally if they carry on accepting bets from UK players.
I'd suggest asking the Gambling Commission if they have applied for a licence yet. The new deadline is 23 Oct at the latest to apply. Yhey should be able to confirm if they have had an application, it is a perfectly legit question.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
I can say that 32red did a good turn with the new accounts, Now receive emails with the go wild details, Yes still received the bonus ect but one point to make is that the loyalty points did not go on to account,

I am pretty sure that casino.com was out? but still receiving emails, Any body update me on this, Cheers
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
I'd suggest asking the Gambling Commission if they have applied for a licence yet. The new deadline is 23 Oct at the latest to apply. Yhey should be able to confirm if they have had an application, it is a perfectly legit question.
I think their system is that they will add applicants to the list as fast as they can, but they have also agreed to accept applications "in confidence", which means they will not necessarily be free to say whether a casino not on the list has applied or not.

My way of dealing with this is that I now ONLY play at casinos that are already on the list, or who have made it clear they are applying. Granted, I have lost out on 2 months of participation at FL, but the problem has been that only hindsight could tell me this. Had I continued playing at another casino who suddenly pulled out without any notice, I would be trying to clean up a mess of part finished tournaments, unwagered bonuses, etc. Instead, I have been enjoying "normal service", managing to stay clear of many of the problems others have faced due to the migrations and closures. It's the CASINOS that have lost out by failing to keep me well informed. FL have lost 2 months of potential deposits. Roxy Palace has seen £3000 in deposits over the last week that is 100% down to the fact that by taking on a migrating player database, they are now 100% "in the UK for keeps", and so I should not have to be worrying that one morning I will log in and find myself migrated elsewhere or closed out.

Until it's all over, I will not be joining any new casinos to replace the ones that have closed to UK players.
 
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