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UK EU Referendum

Discussion in 'The Attic' started by citizenx, Apr 22, 2016.

    Apr 22, 2016
  1. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    So this is quickly approaching.

    I'm sure you are all well aware of what the vote is on - Do the people of the UK want to remain within the EU. Simple yes or no.

    I know what my fellow Brits think but am curious, what do the rest of you think? Would you vote yes or no?

    Especially keen to find out what my fellow EU citizens think.

    Let's keep this one friendly folks.

    I'll tell you what I think nearer the time :) My mind is made up though!
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Apr 22, 2016
  3. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    To be honest I don't really care what way it goes.

    Long as Scotland stays part of UK is all that matters to me. I wont be voting either way when it comes.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Apr 22, 2016
  5. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    TBH, never understood why there is even a debate to leave the EU.

    - you are getting money from the EU every year
    - your farmers will be broke without any subsidies from the EU
    - you can travel without any hassle around the EU
    - you still have your strong GBP
    - your companies can do easy trade with the EU countries
    - ....list not complete

    Leaving the EU would open a can of worms, is my opinion :eek:
     
    5 people like this.
  6. Apr 22, 2016
  7. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I agree with Harry, leaving the EU could possibly open a can of worms for the UK and may not be a good move. I am interested to see the outcome of this vote.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 22, 2016
  9. hedgehok

    hedgehok Senior Member mm3

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    Germany
    I'm 100% in favour of the UK staying in the EU. I like the idea of an organization that combines not divides Europe politically and economically so of course they should stay in, no question. But you decide.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Apr 22, 2016
  11. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    Theres many strong points for staying Harry.

    But leaving means the country can control migration better.

    Also wont have to let all EU workers into country.

    Also the country will not have to answer to Brussels on important matters like Human Rights.

    Many more reasons both for and against leaving. That's why im not bothered either way which way it goes.

    But way Europe is going with the refugee crisis many people will be voting to leave as they feel its best way to control amount of people entering our country and taking jobs etc.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Apr 22, 2016
  13. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I have had a thought regarding migration etc. What about all the expat Brits living in France, Spain, Portugal and Italy will they run into problems if the UK leaves the EU and effectively closes it's borders? The restrictions might go both ways leaving many of the expats in an awkward situation. This is probably a non-issue and just a thought.

    I of course am selfishly thinking of Ireland. We export quite a lot of food etc. to the UK so the Irish economy could suffer greatly if the UK left the EU. Our economy is fragile at the moment to say the least.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Apr 22, 2016
  15. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Thanks for the thread, I am not wanting to give my opinion or get into a political debate either but I do like keeping my ear to the ground.

    However I gotta ask about this quote. What do we think then? Because I am a fellow brit and I 100% have no idea which way this vote is going to go so I am curious what you think here.
     
  16. Apr 22, 2016
  17. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Understand your point Paul, however, you have already some 30-40% of your population with migration background which is mainly due to your old colonial ties, e.g. India, Pakistan etc.

    1. You control it already, the channel is keeping things in check at any time, it is not like 1000's would swim ashore

    2. Kick out all the migrant workers and you wont have anybody cleaning your streets, offices and house, keeping the 7/11 opened 24hrs, caring for you in the hospital ward etc etc

    3. Brussels absolutely adheres to the the UN charter of Human Rights and in 2000 added its own Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union

    The myth of taking jobs and the alleged invasion of migration are used by politicians to scare the British to keep "schtumm" when the next cuts are being pushed through legislation.


    I lived in the UK for nearly 7 years from 1998-2004, hence i know some of the paranoia the politicians like to spread. How about the countries where Brits are taking the jobs (e.g. Thailand has a strong ex-pat community) are sending them back to the UK? It wouldn't be possible. We developed into a global world and borders become slowly non-existent.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Apr 22, 2016
  19. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    True osulle.

    What I posted isn't necessary my opinion.

    But with all the reports etc. about Europe getting flooded with refugees a lot of people feel leaving EU will make it easier to keep them out of this country.

    Also many people believe leaving EU means no longer have to let any EU members come into country as they please to work. Ie polish, Romanian workers etc.

    Personally I think the whole things a mess and its another way of dividing the country.

    But I guess I feel like that as its not long since Scotland voted whether or not to leave UK. That Referendum caused a lot of anger in the country and still does. Even tho we stayed in UK its non stop hearing about another Referendum to leave UK soon.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Apr 22, 2016
  21. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    As ive said Harry that's not necessary my opinion.

    But sadly this country has a lot of hatred still.

    There is a lot of people that feel this country has already got to many foreigners and is losing its own identity. And sadly with all the reports about refugees and terrorists and scare stories the amount of racist attacks etc. is rising fast in this country.
     
  22. Apr 22, 2016
  23. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    Interesting comments folks.

    Have tried to respond to some of you but my view just can't be hidden when I do.

    I'm not afraid of expressing it but think it'd be better to allow debate to flow rather than saying what I think and why too soon.
     
  24. Apr 23, 2016
  25. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    I also recall the government biggest case for Scotland to stay in the UK was to stay in the EU. If Scotland became independent it would no longer be part of the EU. If many Scots voted based on that fact to stay in the EU then I guess there will be many pissed off Scots if the UK decides to leave the EU now. I for one would not like to face the wrath of the Scots:D

    I agree with you Europe is a big ole mess right now and many economies are trying hard to stay above water and cannot afford the influx of refugees right now. Simple as that. I think the refugee crisis should be a whole world issue and not just an EU issue other countries outside of the EU should take some of the refugees and not just EU countries. Just my super charged 2cents on the matter.
     
    3 people like this.
  26. Apr 23, 2016
  27. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    You have a right to your opinion and you can express it freely. This is a debate you started and a friendly one at that so nobody will attack you for your opinion. They are valid arguments for staying in or getting out either way.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Apr 23, 2016
  29. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Sorry Paul if my answers sounded too harsh. Wasn't meant to be.

    Personally i would always chose total independence before anything else. It is the only way you can keep your identity as complete as possible.

    The refugee crisis has been around for some time, it only peaked last year and would have gotten worse if Mr. Orban would not have started with the border closures. I agree that many people, including me probably, would get scared when you see the sheer numbers.

    Me being a migrant myself, i had the privilege to live in 7 countries until today and by far the easiest to set-up home was the EU. The worries however, were the same in every country, be it for the identity, the job, the livelihood etc. etc. I think it will need another few generations after ours has gone to see a clear direction our society is heading, open and global or back to the "good ole days".

    One example of the those "good ole days", just a few 100 years back: to travel from Salzburg to Hamburg you were stopped over 20 times to pay taxes and road duties for each county you were passing on your journey as Germany was that widely split. The EU is a much larger scale but basically the same would happen again if everybody would decide to leave the union and start out on his own.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Apr 23, 2016
  31. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    This is a fair point. I'm a wee bit wary simply because I'd love to hear contrary views from others in the UK, EU and further afield and see if i can accept any. I try to have an open mind but on this i'm compelled to one position, that is a very strong OUT vote.

    Why?

    Firstly, I love being part of a strong continent of rich culture and history. Some of it good, some of it very bleak. It is what we are.

    I have no issues at all with the people of the EU or its upcoming members. I have a great deal of concern about what is, for me, a fundamentally undemocratic insititution which seems to serve its own agenda and care little for the people it purports to represent.

    I believe that it is the duty of a nation to look after its people first and foremost. If that can be achieved and then can offer advantages to others then that's great.

    BUT.

    I don't like how freedom of movement is only really beneficial one way. Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing place in Europe and i've seen many first hand. However, there are approximately 1.69m unemployed British people. They should be in work before we admit more to compete against them. As it is, we see wage compression and lack of opportunity for our young people. I don't think this is fair.

    We talk of being able to move freely throughout Europe but in most cases, it is not economically sound for working age people to go, instead it feels like a one way street where people come in (understandably) but unless Brits want a significant wage cut then there is little benefit to go abroad,


    The EU doesn't feel like it is geared up to represent its people, The UK represents 8.4% of the EU Parliament voting power which means that our voice is not heard, beyond that of protest. For a nation which survived WW1 and WW2 without incursion, it doesn't seem right that our wishes are easily over-ruled in our homeland.

    The vote in the 70's wasn't on political union but on a a trading arrangement. Recent research suggests that just under 60% of UK legislation is based on EU diktat. I don't like that.

    We aren't members of Schengen so we still show passports at borders. Sure, it is a mere formality but is no different from travelling most countries under a UK passport.

    Finally, we've apparently been "opted out" of closer integration. I don't buy it. That isn't what history has taught us with the EU. If we vote to remain, I see it as a path to an EU superstate which will destroy our sovereignty until it [the EU] collapses, which I feel it will. I believe it is only a matter of time until its actions make it unsustainable. At that point, all talk of a controlled exit will seem like a much better idea but it will be too late. Instead, we'll be front and centre in the ruins of a failed project to force together culurally and economically different nations.

    The bottom line is, I don't feel represented, involved or comfortable with where we're going, without consent. I feel kinship with most people of Europe but not with the insitutions we never signed up to.
     
    5 people like this.
  32. Apr 23, 2016
  33. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    Thank you for sharing your opinion and I agree with a lot of your points. I think the best solution would be to overhaul the EU political system to give each country fairer representation and more control over their own individual borders. I was living in the US when the EEC became the EU and I didn't like the direction that was going. I don't believe in a EU superstate as I don't think that is in the best interest of the European people. I also don't like the idea of Germany calling all the shots for the rest of Europe. It's like they took us over all be it financially but Germany is still very much the main power of the EU at the moment.

    Having said all that for the here and now I don't think it would make good financial sense for the UK to leave the EU at the moment. I am very interested to see what will happen if the UK does decide to leave. Honestly I have to admit I am a bit afraid of my country's stability if that happens. It is my opinion and I could be wrong but Ireland and the UK have the strongest ties within the EU and Ireland depends a lot on the export income it derives from the UK.

    No matter what happens though I think we live in uncertain and scary times and I for one don't like it one little bit.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Apr 23, 2016
  35. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    I think of it like this - In spite of the mass influx of migrants over the last few years, in spite of the UK forcing its vote, the EU offered absolutely no concessions at all.David Cameron's regnegotiation was a waste of time. If the EU won't reform in spite of one its largest contributors threatening to leave, will it ever?


    It is. And who is in charge there? Merkel? Who will sell out her own people and country for her own agenda. Frankly she disgusts me.

    I suspect the floodgates will open and the insitution will disintegrate.



    I was in smalltown Ireland back in 2009. I remember seeing the brand new housing which was effectively abandoned. It was so sad. Have strong familial ties with Eire and could see how it had impacted after the collapse of the Celtic Tiger.

    I understand that. I think a new union uniting the people rather than the polticians could be a better future but I suspect we have to get through difficult times to reach that.
     
    3 people like this.
  36. Apr 23, 2016
  37. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    Do you think it unites the people or the politicians?
     
  38. Apr 23, 2016
  39. citizenx

    citizenx Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK
    My feeling is that most people aren't happy but many don't really get the impact of the EU on every part of their lives.

    I'm not even going to pretend i can call the outcome though, its so finely balanced. The passion exists amonst the out campaign though. There is little to none in the remain side. They're trying to create fear and anxiety. Hardly a strong basis for our future in my opinion.
     

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