U.S. is back.. wooohooo

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Looks like we are back to playing in the U.S. soon. poker is finally getting its chance to be legal online in the U.S. and it also says.. GAMING. So I assume that encompasses all gambling, About damn time..
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

secret2

irishbrit62
MM
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
New York, United States
Oh...I hope so!

Chris Christie (NJ) wants it to happen and he has made it his goal to 'beat' NY in many ways.;) always with competition with NY. Competition is a good thing. :).

It would make sense to make this happen, as the 'Lottery' is a regulated form of gambling which generates millions for education, etc...

I have never understood why they stall, with online gambling in the USA.

The only thing that I can understand about stalling is probably because of the 'Patriot Act'.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
It's still a little early to celebrate, imo. The introduction of this federal bill by Rep. King has been anticipated for some weeks whilst he has been trying to marshal stronger Republican support, and at present it is at the introductory phase with the possibility of debate in both chambers and probably opposition from various interest groups.

I understand that King has gone to some lengths to assure states that they retain the right to opt out of it. With Delaware, New Jersey and Nevada already having legalisation laws on their books, and with several other states seriously considering the possibilities, it's now a little late to start trying to impose a federal framework, but that's the first prize for the land gambling industry and the AGA, and it will undoubtedly be protectionist and unwieldy.

There is also speculation that two other federal attempts to legalise online poker are in progress but not yet launched - one by Texas Rep. Joe Barton in the House and another in the Senate by Nevada Sen. Harry Reid - his third attempt (the others failed due to concerns about Nevada favouritism, political infighting over support, running out of time, and lack of respect for the sovereignty of tribes and states.)

As has been commented here before - be careful what you wish for - federal involvement often carries with it all sorts of ass-backwards political problems and provisions that hamper true competition and therefore better deals for players.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
It's still a little early to celebrate, imo. The introduction of this federal bill by Rep. King has been anticipated for some weeks whilst he has been trying to marshal stronger Republican support, and at present it is at the introductory phase with the possibility of debate in both chambers and probably opposition from various interest groups.

I understand that King has gone to some lengths to assure states that they retain the right to opt out of it. With Delaware, New Jersey and Nevada already having legalisation laws on their books, and with several other states seriously considering the possibilities, it's now a little late to start trying to impose a federal framework, but that's the first prize for the land gambling industry and the AGA, and it will undoubtedly be protectionist and unwieldy.

There is also speculation that two other federal attempts to legalise online poker are in progress but not yet launched - one by Texas Rep. Joe Barton in the House and another in the Senate by Nevada Sen. Harry Reid - his third attempt (the others failed due to concerns about Nevada favouritism, political infighting over support, running out of time, and lack of respect for the sovereignty of tribes and states.)

As has been commented here before - be careful what you wish for - federal involvement often carries with it all sorts of ass-backwards political problems and provisions that hamper true competition and therefore better deals for players.

Get out of my head dammit :mad:

Was just going to post "be careful what you wish for".

When all is said and done, and everyone is taking their slice along the way, US players may well be longing for the "old days" of 2013.....at least in terms of their bottom line. I can't see regulated online casinos being able to offer 95-97% RTPs with a whole lot of extra noses in the trough. Or, if they do, the government will take its share at the other end and*there may not be the same kind of deductions etc that we see with winnings from land casinos.

Over here for instance, 4-6% goes to the government and 4-6% (depends on states) goes to the operators/venues, which leaves 88-90% left for players. RTPs are slightly higher in casinos where special deals are often done with governments. However, we do not pay any tax on winnings. I would think the US figures would have to be similar, except that for maybe the government collection method I.e. via tax system or via %of turnover.

Either way, players will pay, and it may well cost more than it does now even with fees considered (and there will most certainly still be fees to deposit etc)
 

bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
Man, a lot people are taking such a dim view of our possible future in on-line gaming here in the US.

Does anybody out there think we are not used to losing 99% of the time we play now? Or that we are not used to our government grabbing every cent they think they can possibly get away with?

If you don't live here you do not know how bad it is right now for us.

It WILL be better after the dust settles. I invite anyone who doubts that to take the US challenge. For one year play only the US facing accredited casinos and you will see what a dire situation we have here. If it weren't for 3Dice I probably would not be playing on-line at all.

We are starved for variety.

Right now the state sponsored lotteries have an RTP of 50% and have no shortage of people playing.

We need reliability and variety.
 

mrmark21

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
Yeah i assumed that would be the case john. I'm happy for US players that things are starting to look on the up and up :) 3 dice is a great casino, i personally wouldnt play at all though if my only other main option was RTG.

Man, a lot people are taking such a dim view of our possible future in on-line gaming here in the US.

Does anybody out there think we are not used to losing 99% of the time we play now? Or that we are not used to our government grabbing every cent they think they can possibly get away with?

If you don't live here you do not know how bad it is right now for us.

It WILL be better after the dust settles. I invite anyone who doubts that to take the US challenge. For one year play only the US facing accredited casinos and you will see what a dire situation we have here. If it weren't for 3Dice I probably would not be playing on-line at all.

We are starved for variety.

Right now the state sponsored lotteries have an RTP of 50% and have no shortage of people playing.

We need reliability and variety.
 
Last edited:

gloria460

Meister Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Florida
I'm quite a bit surprised by the attitude also. We are mainly stuck with rtg, what a crock of crap. Rival, which you don't know if you're going to be paid and if you do get paid it will be a hassle to get your money. 3Dice good for people who like them but not enough variety or interesting games for me and Betsoft or Betonsoft, don't know as I tried them and wasn't impressed with them either.

The point is, it will be regulated, taxed and you will get your money in a reasonable amount of time and you will have recourse if there is a dispute. Right now the only thing USA players can rely on are sights like casinomeister.

I don't know if microgaming casinos will be let back in because they didn't automatically stop serving the USA. They developed other sites offering the games without the progressives. We shall see as I do like my mgs games.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Man, a lot people are taking such a dim view of our possible future in on-line gaming here in the US.

Does anybody out there think we are not used to losing 99% of the time we play now? Or that we are not used to our government grabbing every cent they think they can possibly get away with?

If you don't live here you do not know how bad it is right now for us.

It WILL be better after the dust settles. I invite anyone who doubts that to take the US challenge. For one year play only the US facing accredited casinos and you will see what a dire situation we have here. If it weren't for 3Dice I probably would not be playing on-line at all.

We are starved for variety.

Right now the state sponsored lotteries have an RTP of 50% and have no shortage of people playing.

We need reliability and variety.
Whoa....hold on there.

I'm sure I speak for jetset also when I say that I don't WANT things to be bad/worse for US players.

It's just that REAL regulation costs REAL $$$$, and it will be the players who will pay in the end, one way or another.

I guess it depends on what price you're willing to pay for the knowledge that you WILL be paid, either in lower RTPs or in higher personal taxes.

It would be great if the US gov can work out something super awesome that gives players juicy returns, but given the history of just about every government in the world ever, I wouldn't be gambling on that one.

I also suspect there will be very little in the way of bonuses etc, at least not was we know them today, as there will be a fairly select group of operators allowed to offer games at least in the short to medium term, and they won't need to compete for your dollar like OCs do everywhere else.

Remember, it's just my assessment based on what I know and what I've learned over the years. I'm happy to be wrong about this one.
 

Balthazar

The Governor
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Woodbury
It's just that REAL regulation costs REAL $$$$, and it will be the players who will pay in the end, one way or another..
I'm fairly certain that US players would glady trade a tax on winnings or lower RTPs for a legal and safe way to play. Just not having to deal with rogue processors and having to wait weeks (or even months) to get a check in the mail (and then not being sure if you can cash it at your bank) is WELL worth it.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I'm fairly certain that US players would glady trade a tax on winnings or lower RTPs for a legal and safe way to play. Just not having to deal with rogue processors and having to wait weeks (or even months) to get a check in the mail (and then not being sure if you can cash it at your bank) is WELL worth it.
You may well be right.

Remember though that the difference between say 96/97% and 88-90% RTP over the medium to long term is an AWFUL lot of money especially for regular players. It might even outweigh the odd lost withdrawal/s and fees.

If my bottom line was worse off, all things considered, I wouldn't necessarily welcome regulation. It would depend on the maths at the end of the day.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
I read this bill for an op-ed for an online poker portal. There is no way it passes. Even gaming companies and tribes will oppose sections of it. It is also auto opt in which will not fly with most politicians, especially conservatives. This bill is DOA.
 

X-Raided

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
PABinit
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Your Happy Place
Well.. The way I see it is the following: If and when the U.S. fully regulates online gambling, I wonder if indeed it does greatly strengthen our government financially, would other countries follow suit and change the current policies worldwide? As Tears For Fears said in their song "Everybody wants to rule the world" nothing ever lasts forever.

I'm perfectly okay with gambling online with the current conditions as a fix and saving my money to travel to land based casinos with my wife and gamble in real environments... No biggie. Do I want to play at an online casino fully accredited by our crooked politicians? I don't know.. At the same time, isn't the land based casinos regulated by those same crooked politicians? My tune has changed over the past few months. So, it appears it's currently RTG, 3Dice or Rival at the moment. Compare that with the plethora of online casinos available to everybody else.. In the end, I really do think that all of us U.S. players really ever wanted was to feel equal. It's quite similar to being just under the allowed height to ride a roller-coaster that everybody else gets to ride.
 
Last edited:

sfcat

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Location
Chicago, Illinois, United States
But when do we guarantee regulators

Whoa....hold on there.

I'm sure I speak for jetset also when I say that I don't WANT things to be bad/worse for US players.

It's just that REAL regulation costs REAL $$$$, and it will be the players who will pay in the end, one way or another.
While I completely agree with your thought, keep in mind that the reality here is frequently regulations being passed without regulatory agencies being funded, or inadequately funded. That's fairly true across the board, with some areas being really bad. I work in a regulated industry, and there are days we just look at each other and shake our heads...

I will grant, they tend to be slightly better when it involves receiving tax money.
:D
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
It's a really sad commentary on the way in which the politicians over the years have managed to stuff things up so thoroughly for the US online gambler that he/she is prepared to trade decent RTP and competitive variety against security and safety....after all it is the politicians who ultimately created the environment where the thieves and villains have been able to pull in punters they might not in the normal course of events be able to attract.

My personal view is that competition sharpens everyone up in a legal and regulated market, and that usually entails better respect for the player and a more competitive offering in terms of both RTP and games quality and promos.

Whether that would be available in a typically protectionist and heavily taxed and federally regulated US market that excludes major international companies is doubtful imo, although respect for states' rights may mean that the feds will have to give individual states some leeway on the nature of their regulations...the King bill already contains "grandfathering" provisions to embrace Nevada, New Jersey and Delaware.

Individual states may present a better opportunity for the player because they are competing with one another, and inter-state compacts with like-minded states could bring about some harmonisation of regulations for purely pragmatic reasons
 

bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
I really think the US has a good chance of getting this right, for US based players and US based casinos. I don't imagine they will open our market to foreign based casinos, at least not for a while because of the lobbying groups for land based casinos here.

There are two important factors to keep in mind here, one is that the citizens here are really getting fed up with our Federal government expanding their powers and over grabbing our money, second is that the Federal government (much to their chagrin) have no jurisdiction over gambling of any kind here in the States. Even the much maligned UIGEA contains language referring to the fact that it is enforceable only where other Federal or State laws prohibit on-line gambling transactions.

We will need strong state Governors to repel any attempts by the Federal legislators from poking their noses in farther than they already have, and we have strong Governors here.

Online gaming is being offered to us because they want us to use it to generate revenue for the casinos and taxes for the Country. If they make it terrible it will not be used to its full potential.

I also offer two historical examples;
Prohibition, once repealed the Country rejoiced and partied and we had the best alcohol available here.

Marijuana, when Nationally grown marijuana was first proposed I thought it would be some whimpy, watered down version. Man, was I wrong, we now have the best weed you can get (BTW, I gave up smoking weed about 15 years ago but I have seen and smelled it) and is quasi-legal in two States.

I think when on-line gaming gets going we will have the best system for us.
 

cash4all

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
United States
I also think that it would be good for the US in general. We are suppose to be one of the strongest countries in the world but when it comes to things like "online gaming" we are way behind the times ... even in the stone age. Here is the problem, the only "real" casinos are in New Jersey and Nevada. Most of the other land based casinos are run by the Indian Tribes. We have several of them here in South Florida in Dade and Broward county and one that I know of over in Tampa. Now the problem is, is that this isn't a State thing .... it seems to be a county thing because there are only a few counties in the State of Florida that actually allow gambling. I for one, do not like the Indian Tribe run casinos. They are very tight and not even any fun even though they have recently been given permission to offer "vegas style" slots and table games. I do not believe that craps is even allowed yet just Black jack and the slots and poker.

I for one have gone a few times but will never go to any of those casinos again even though they are close. The odds of winning are slim to none so why even bother. They are not regulated in any way as far as I know and pretty much can set their own payout rates etc. Please if someone has knowledge of how they really operate, please let me know. I have given them a few chances and never even came close to leaving with anything more than what I came with and the bankroll didn't even last for more than a couple of hours. This to me is no fun and although they advertise $5 tables .. their is one in the entire casino and the rest are $25 and up. To me, this wouldn't entice me in anyway if I were a blackjack player, would it entice you?

Most of the people in this state are old and every single time the issue of making gambling legal in the entire state is put on the ballot it is voted down ... it would generate a lot of business for the state and as far as I know the reasoning has always been the fear of more crime and people wasting their hard earned money that they should be using for food, bills etc. That, in itself is nonsense ... no one is forcing you to step foot in any of those establishments and it is no ones business how one chooses to spend their money. As for crime, crime is going to happen whether there are casinos or not ... so that is also a mute point. Hell, most of the people I see in these Indian casinos are 60 or older, so what is their damn problem?

Evening out the playing field by allowing companies such as Harrah's, Trump and other gaming entities would entice more tourism and bring more revenue to the state and maybe force the existing Indian casinos to compete on a fairer level. I just don't understand what the big deal is! Legalizing all online gaming and allowing all states to participate would also generate revenue which is badly needed in this country since our government eems to like to spend more than they take in. Anyone who is against this is not being forced to play or participate and it certainly does not infringe upon their rights .... so you tell me, what is the big deal? It's really the business of the player who decides to participate only ... its no body else's business what anyone does with their own money.
 

adedpoet1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Location
usa
Cash4all,
I live in Broward County also. Do you know that starting today or Monday there is a boat out of Miami that goes to a new casino in Bimini. The boat also offers table games and sports betting. I think the charge is $49 plus a $30 port charge.
 

cash4all

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
United States
Cash4all,
I live in Broward County also. Do you know that starting today or Monday there is a boat out of Miami that goes to a new casino in Bimini. The boat also offers table games and sports betting. I think the charge is $49 plus a $30 port charge.
Oh I think I heard about that ... we use to go on the Palm Beach Princess out of Port of Palm Beach but they were having financial issues and they shut down in 2011. We also used to go out of Port Canaveral when Sterling Cruises were operating there, but they eventually shut down also. There is a new boat that goes out of Port Canaveral, but I have heard nothing but bad things about it. We live about 2.5 hours from Miami so it is quite a bit of a trip for us but if you ever do the trip could you please post here for me and let me know what you thought of it and if it is worth doing?

Thanks so much for that info .. I had no idea! :)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top