Trada bit OTT?

jjezebel37

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Location
Belfast (Northern Ireland)
Logged on to Trada today and saw they had a promo for 60 spins on Motorhead for deposit of £30.

Played around for a while and withdrew £85.

I then played the spins (I always play the spins last).

I then received this email...

Hi Georgina,


You asked to withdraw from TradaCasino before playing and redeeming your free spins winnings.


I have cancelled your withdrawal and applied the remaining wagering of £560 to your account, you can withdraw again once this wagering is met.


Thanks,

James.

Thought it was a bit harsh?
 

Jono777

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Wow, Bit of a surprising read for this casino, Pretty well run and fair (as it says on their tin) outfit IMO.

Usually (more so if they see a deposit history) most casinos would let this go, do you go there often ? :p

Another alternative would be to ask if you can forfeit the 60FS?

Rachel their rep is very helpful and fair, I'd give her a PM

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Edit: Scrap the bit about forfeiting spins, just re-read your post, give Rachel a shout :D
 

goatwack

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Nothing a quick pm can't sort out as Jon said.

Still, to the uninitiated that would mean losing what they thought was a withdrawal :axeman:

In the industry that's known as 'a bit cheeky' :eek:
 

dunover

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Logged on to Trada today and saw they had a promo for 60 spins on Motorhead for deposit of £30.

Played around for a while and withdrew £85.

I then played the spins (I always play the spins last).

I then received this email...

Hi Georgina,


You asked to withdraw from TradaCasino before playing and redeeming your free spins winnings.


I have cancelled your withdrawal and applied the remaining wagering of £560 to your account, you can withdraw again once this wagering is met.


Thanks,

James.

Thought it was a bit harsh?

Yes, I always do the same as you - play normally and leave the irritating free spins until later as a separate entity. In this case Trada considered them part of your deposit which is unfortunate. Considering their feed-in bonuses have no WR I would have assumed the same for the FS.
 

SpinUk

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They dont let you withdraw anything until the free spins are played then they add the resultant wagering to be paid before the withdrawal. Its on the bonus terms - most casinos like redbet just ensure that you play your deposit at least once or some five times. I dont deposit as much as I used to there for that reason
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I was thinking this too.

I played my deposit for about an hour before I withdrew...never had this problem before..

Strange!!

I managed to clear wager but I'm not really happy.

Could be a change in policy to tighten up on such things. Check the terms to see whether it says anything about having to play the free spins before withdrawing the deposit (even after playing), or having the free spins forfeit if they remain unplayed when a withdrawal for the triggering deposit has been made.

The fact that you played them right away meant they could not deal with this by cancelling the free spins, although they could have offered you the choice of being paid and the winnings from the free spins removed, or keeping the free spin winnings but having to complete the WR on them before being able to withdraw the £85.
 

SpinUk

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Yes, I always do the same as you - play normally and leave the irritating free spins until later as a separate entity. In this case Trada considered them part of your deposit which is unfortunate. Considering their feed-in bonuses have no WR I would have assumed the same for the FS.

Can you elaborate a bit here, I thought all their bonuses had wagering
 

SpinUk

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I got stung there for the same reason. If you fancy a quick wager with a small bonus then fine, but just be sure that you are affectively taking a 25% to 30% bonus depending on the value of the spins and how lucky you are, with the associated wagering. If your happy with that, fine. Of course if you are unlucky you can jeopardise a deposit with wagering for only a tenners worth of bonus
 

jjezebel37

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Location
Belfast (Northern Ireland)
I got stung there for the same reason. If you fancy a quick wager with a small bonus then fine, but just be sure that you are affectively taking a 25% to 30% bonus depending on the value of the spins and how lucky you are, with the associated wagering. If your happy with that, fine. Of course if you are unlucky you can jeapordise a deposit with wagering for only a tenners worth of bonus

I would deposit a lot at Casumo when they have the free spins offers as I mainly so straight deposits.

Never had a problem there.
 

spintee

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I love a bonus, But no matter how broke I am I always use the spins first, Reason being I just cannot handle the migrains wondering are they going to stiff me, So I take it they added the wager on the free spins winnings,

There is a few things wrong with this, I wonder if they calculated the spins you made after you deposited? I mean from the play you done could of more than likely cleared the bonus, But its all relevent now as you beat the wage,

But rules do state have to use spins before a withdraw,

I have seen recently a few sites saying you have to use the spins before a withdraw, Remember the butlers rep, Didnt take to kindly when this was mentioned :) about using spins after,

Alot or all of RTG sites have done this for a long time, As if the wager was not high enough in any case they make you play the spins first, Other games will not open :eek:

Casumo Rep have stated that they do not mind you doing this there, Infact you can build up rewards and use at your own pleasure, They also last a good month or so as well, Not the Sundays mega spins
 

Jono777

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When I used to play there, the bonus would not be front-loaded but fed-in in £2 instalments as cash, no wagering. May have changed then?

You sure you're not thinking of Video Slots mate?

AFAIK Trada bonuses have always credited before you make a single spin, never 100% sure on anything these days though :oops:

@OP did you PM Rachel?
 

Harry_BKK

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Dec 18, 2014
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When I used to play there, the bonus would not be front-loaded but fed-in in £2 instalments as cash, no wagering. May have changed then?

You sure you're not thinking of Video Slots mate?

AFAIK Trada bonuses have always credited before you make a single spin, never 100% sure on anything these days though :oops:

@OP did you PM Rachel?

Dunover refers to their CashBack Bonus. For every xxx amount wagered (can't remember the exact amount), they credit you $2 cash, no wagering attached.

All other bonuses at Trada come with xxx WR, no exception. And they were the first i saw to say that FS have to be played straight after depositing.
 

vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Those terms are open to some interpretation. It says the spins must be redeemed and the winnings from them wagered 35x before withdrawal, but it does not stipulate specifically that the spins must be redeemed before the deposit is played, so one could argue that ignoring the spins means that the winnings from them are zero at the time the deposit is played, so the standard deposit 1x WR would apply until such time as the spins are redeemed.

Earlier, the term "redeemed" is used in a way that makes it refer to entering the code at the time of deposit rather than asking CS to add the spins later, not playing (redeeming) the spins themselves as your first act of the playing session.
 

TradaCasino

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Location
Dublin, Ireland
Hi All!

Thanks for the feedback and commentary, it's good to see things from the players perspective here. It really helps us when it comes to creating future offers :)

I want to give you an insight into our thinking behind this term, so let's use the current Motorhead offer as an example.

Deposit £70 | Get 150 spins on Motorhead

  • A deposit of £70 will get you 150 free spins on Motorhead. These spins are valued at £0.20 per spin, giving a total value of £30.
  • Lets say you play your free spins first, you will theoretically win 96.98% of the value of those spins back, which is £29.09.
  • At this point, you have a balance of £70 (initial deposit) & £29.09 (free spins winnings) = £99.09.
  • The free spins winnings have a wagering requirement of 35x, meaning you must now wager £1018.15 in order to make a withdrawal.
  • With your balance of £99.09, and a wagering requirement of £1018.15, you now must wager your total balance approx 10.2x.

This would be the equivalent of just under 41.5% deposit bonus, with a wagering requirement of 10.2x your balance (in comparison to our 50% deposit match offers, which are 25x deposit & bonus). As always, I am happy to discuss certain terms and thrash out the reasoning behind both sides of the argument. It's good for all of us to have an open discussion on it.

We could remove the term, and allow players to withdraw their balance (after wagering it 1x) and then use their free spins afterwards. However in this case we would have to reduce the amount of spins offered per deposit, and look at something more along the lines of 70 spins for £70, as opposed to 150 spins for £70. Which would you prefer as a player? As I'm absolutely open to changing it if players are more in favour of smaller amounts of spins with less stringent terms. Feedback to date is that the majority of our players prefer having this term in place, as it means we can offer more spins for their deposit. However I do recognise that this is not the case for everyone, and I would be happy to cater for both preferences in the future.

Personally I think that the offer as it stands is fair, as it gives players extra play-time as well as a reasonable chance of making a cash-out, but I am more than happy to continue the discussion and I'm open to changing my point of view here.



Bonus Types
I also see there's a bit of confusion in regard to how we operate our bonuses (feed-in, instant etc.) so hopefully I can clarify things a bit:

Deposit Bonus:
These are generally offered in 100%/75%/50% amounts and are instant deposit bonuses. They carry a wagering requirement of 25x D&B (we generally run these on Monday & Tuesday).

Cashback Bonus:
This is what @Dunover was referring to. Players can claim cashback on every deposit made at TradaCasino by using the code CB25. Cashback is essentially a feed-in bonus, and is released in increments of £2. For every £70 wagered on slots, £2 is dropped into your cash balance. There are no wagering requirements associated with cashback and players can withdraw at any time. These cash drops continue until the player has received 25% of their deposited amount back.

Free Spins Bonus:
This is what is being discussed in this thread. Players can make a deposit and claim free spins by using the relevant code, however a withdrawal will not be permitted unless the wagering requirements on free spins winnings are met.


I hope this covers everything for you, and thank you to Jjezebel for starting the discussion as it's been really interesting to hear different points of view,

Rachel.
 

spintee

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Thank you for that,

I would argue that the theoretically pay out over 70 spins is not really relevant, Any think could happen in those spins, Even if thousands of players took the offer,

25x on D&B is fair dues but on a 50% bonus? is a bit steep thats 75x on bonus

I know sites have diffrent ways of doing things but I see no reason to tie in any deposited money on 50% or under


Hi All!

Thanks for the feedback and commentary, it's good to see things from the players perspective here. It really helps us when it comes to creating future offers :)

I want to give you an insight into our thinking behind this term, so let's use the current Motorhead offer as an example.

Deposit £70 | Get 150 spins on Motorhead

  • A deposit of £70 will get you 150 free spins on Motorhead. These spins are valued at £0.20 per spin, giving a total value of £30.
  • Lets say you play your free spins first, you will theoretically win 96.98% of the value of those spins back, which is £29.09.
  • At this point, you have a balance of £70 (initial deposit) & £29.09 (free spins winnings) = £99.09.
  • The free spins winnings have a wagering requirement of 35x, meaning you must now wager £1018.15 in order to make a withdrawal.
  • With your balance of £99.09, and a wagering requirement of £1018.15, you now must wager your total balance approx 10.2x.

This would be the equivalent of just under 41.5% deposit bonus, with a wagering requirement of 10.2x your balance (in comparison to our 50% deposit match offers, which are 25x deposit & bonus). As always, I am happy to discuss certain terms and thrash out the reasoning behind both sides of the argument. It's good for all of us to have an open discussion on it.

We could remove the term, and allow players to withdraw their balance (after wagering it 1x) and then use their free spins afterwards. However in this case we would have to reduce the amount of spins offered per deposit, and look at something more along the lines of 70 spins for £70, as opposed to 150 spins for £70. Which would you prefer as a player? As I'm absolutely open to changing it if players are more in favour of smaller amounts of spins with less stringent terms. Feedback to date is that the majority of our players prefer having this term in place, as it means we can offer more spins for their deposit. However I do recognise that this is not the case for everyone, and I would be happy to cater for both preferences in the future.

Personally I think that the offer as it stands is fair, as it gives players extra play-time as well as a reasonable chance of making a cash-out, but I am more than happy to continue the discussion and I'm open to changing my point of view here.



Bonus Types
I also see there's a bit of confusion in regard to how we operate our bonuses (feed-in, instant etc.) so hopefully I can clarify things a bit:

Deposit Bonus:
These are generally offered in 100%/75%/50% amounts and are instant deposit bonuses. They carry a wagering requirement of 25x D&B (we generally run these on Monday & Tuesday).

Cashback Bonus:
This is what @Dunover was referring to. Players can claim cashback on every deposit made at TradaCasino by using the code CB25. Cashback is essentially a feed-in bonus, and is released in increments of £2. For every £70 wagered on slots, £2 is dropped into your cash balance. There are no wagering requirements associated with cashback and players can withdraw at any time. These cash drops continue until the player has received 25% of their deposited amount back.

Free Spins Bonus:
This is what is being discussed in this thread. Players can make a deposit and claim free spins by using the relevant code, however a withdrawal will not be permitted unless the wagering requirements on free spins winnings are met.


I hope this covers everything for you, and thank you to Jjezebel for starting the discussion as it's been really interesting to hear different points of view,

Rachel.
 

TradaCasino

Official rep for Trada Casino
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I would argue that the theoretically pay out over 70 spins is not really relevant, Any think could happen in those spins, Even if thousands of players took the offer,

I agree that for the most part it's not relevant to the individual player, as you could win significantly more or less than that, however from our perspective we have to look at the bigger picture mathematically (as after running these promotions, twice a week for a year, the numbers do actually come in right on point at 95-96%). But a fair point, theoretical numbers aren't much of a guarantee in the short-term.
 

Jono777

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Good Post Rachel and nice to have an active and caring rep (even though I only deposit once a week :oops:)

The only 'argument' I would make (and its not really an argument hence the quotation marks) is that using the total balance in your example (original deposit + FS winnings) to show a much reduced wagering contribution may bit a bit misleading or for want of a better word, confusing for the lesser experienced players/members.

IMO no player should ever have to wager their own cash/deposit, although we read the terms, we understand them, we agree to them BUT no matter how we 'dress it up' its still 35x amount won from FS.

Now the bit I really strongly agree with is the AMOUNT of free spins we get. Not many places offer 150 or 60 for a £30 deposit (in fact I was mighty tempted to take your offer last night but put off by my last few deposits
at Trada where my luck has been pretty much on the floor :( )

You do have to protect yourselves just in case a player gets lucky on the original cash deposit (before playing the FS) and withdraws, they then also have a very good 'risk free' chance when playing the FS after withdrawing.

My suggestion on this one would be running a 'Deal A or Deal B' type offer on these days, obviously if its not too difficult to set up / manage.

Deal A

Deposit £30 for 60FS or Deposit £70 for 150 FS. ALL free spins need to be played out in full at the very start of the session, wagering is 35 x FS winnings.

Deal B

Deposit £25 for 'X' (30-40?) FS or Deposit £60 for 'X' (60-70?) - Cash balance can be played first and free spins can be played whenever you like? (maybe with a slightly increased WR - 40x?)

Another alternative would be to insist that FS are played out first but with a fairer WR such as maybe 20-25x.

Just ideas and feedback as requested. :D
 
Last edited:

TradaCasino

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Location
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Good Post Rachel and nice to have an active and caring rep (even though I only deposit once a week :oops:)

The only 'argument' I would make (and its not really an argument hence the quotation marks) is that using the total balance in your example (original deposit + FS winnings) to show a much reduced wagering contribution may bit a bit misleading or for want of a better word, confusing for the lesser experienced players/members.

IMO no player should ever have to wager their own cash/deposit, although we read the terms, we understand them, we agree to them BUT no matter how we 'dress it up' its still 35x amount won from FS.

I completely understand that it looks misleading to use the original deposited amount to show reduced wagering, and I would never use that as a 'sales pitch' on-site or in a newsletter. I suppose I was just using it as an example of how we arrive at the amount of spins we decide to give away, and what the theoretical wagering requirement would be to withdraw is one of our deciding factors.

I have to run into a meeting but I'll come back and give more feedback on your post ASAP. Thanks a million for the suggestions Jon.

In the meantime, does anyone have any ideas on how to make the term clearer? Or do you think it's self-explanatory?

"Free spins must be redeemed and winnings wagered 35x before a withdrawal is permitted"

Thanks again Jon,

Rachel.
 
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