Tower Gaming Doesnt Pay me for 3 months

[The Dude]

Admin warning: Exploiting the board

@multirake

1.11 - Please do not exploit this board to promote your own personal agenda. If the moderators (and members) feel that you are spamming the board with links or ad copy to your website, harassing members with agenda laden posts, or consistently ragging on a casino that did you wrong, etc., your account may be suspended.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

The moderators and I are having to spend time this morning cleaning up your mess - bumping/hijacking threads are violations of common forum etiquette - and you are exploiting the board for your personal vendetta.

Read the instructions on posting complaints please/ Further violations will result in a spanking. Thank you.

 

[vinylweatherman]

They should get you for jacking threads lol. First you speak of ethics and you close my thread at CAP, ok i get it, They are promoted on the site and you want to keep everything hush hush.

Once again this is not about you or even me for that matter. I know i wont get the money to pay the player. At the end of the day, these poker companies make a killing, i know because i worked for them. So the affiliate promises the player a deal, some people play for fun and others play regular and this is a career. There has been too much of these scams happening. I had one player that raked over 15k.

So if you think its ok to do this , i guess you must be a tool, well atleast a well paid tool by Tower.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

I received over 3 emails of him telling me that the payment was processed.

This is ridiculous

This whole issue shows the industry in a very bad light indeed. Even if you CAN promote with rakeback if you first get approval, this STILL disadvantages those affiliates who have NOT got approval for this, or even know such an "under the counter" deal could be available.

It also looks as though even these "approved" rakeback deals are being hidden from Ongame, who have a blanket policy of not allowing them.

This player who generated 15K, was this the same one you & David conspired to steal from another affiliate, provided it wasn't noticed?

NO honest affiliate is going to side with another who has knowingly accepted a deal whereby players are stolen from lesser affiliates, and put on his account.

If David Visser is offering such deals, and is a DIRECTOR of Tower Gaming, this IS a serious matter, but NOT for the reasons you think it is, but because he is offering "illegal" deals to favoured affiliates to the disadvantage of "regular" affiliates.

Ongame may have found out because you checked out some of David's lies with them, the ones about you being blacklisted.
Maybe when Ongame lit a fire under David's a$$ over this, he decided to screw YOU to save is own a$$, by saying he only recently found out you were promoting rakeback in the hope Ongame would believe this, and not levy a fine. In order to make this story credible, David cannot now just PAY you, or Ongame might ask why he paid an affiliate he has just discovered acting in breach of the terms.

You MAY get paid eventually to "go away", rather than continue to dig this issue over. David is likely to be more careful in future.

To pursue this further as a matter of "public interest" you will need PROOF that David was indeed behind these deals, AND that they were illegal under network rules. This would demonstrate to others that David is not a good person to deal with, and may even result in Ongame taking further action over this.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

On the plus side, you have CLEARLY never been an affiliate for the Virtual Casino Group

 

[Tengil]

Under the counter deals happen all the time. The only reason some networks dont like it is because their other clients complain. Usually this is circumvented with other types of affiliate promos.

And it makes total sense to treat affiliates differently. The big ones will always get better deals simply because they send more highraking players. A bit different than being a casino affiliate, a small site has a hard time competing against big ones.
What would you take? Just a bonus or bonus+RB+rakeraces and points to buy stuff in their store.

MG/Prima is also a non-RB network and still some players have up to 60% RB, and I know on which site.

On to this problem. It makes Tower and David Visser look really bad. They can expect a nice fine from Ongame. On iPoker they would probably have been kicked out.
Edit: they should just pay. Or should have already, now it will cost them much more.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Under the counter deals happen all the time. The only reason some networks dont like it is because their other clients complain. Usually this is circumvented with other types of affiliate promos.

And it makes total sense to treat affiliates differently. The big ones will always get better deals simply because they send more highraking players. A bit different than being a casino affiliate, a small site has a hard time competing against big ones.
What would you take? Just a bonus or bonus+RB+rakeraces and points to buy stuff in their store.

MG/Prima is also a non-RB network and still some players have up to 60% RB, and I know on which site.

On to this problem. It makes Tower and David Visser look really bad. They can expect a nice fine from Ongame. On iPoker they would have been kicked out.

There is a difference between a "better" deal and an "illegal" one. IF the network has a blanket policy of "no rakeback", it should apply to ALL affiliate accounts. Big affiliates who produce more for the skin can be offered a bigger commission, but this becomes unethical when these "illegal" deals freeze out the smaller affiliates who are simply NOT ALLOWED to compete for players on the same terms as the large ones. It implies that the ONLY way to become a big affiliate is to "play dirty", and in terms of US law, this would fall under "anti trust" legislation I believe, whilst here it would attract the attentions of the Competition Commission. Both sets of legislation adhere to the principle of a "level playing field" in inter-business competition for contracts, customers, and in this case, players.

Casino affiliates DO get a "better" deal for attracting more profitable play to the casino. Commission on hold increases on a sliding scale. For example, it might start at 20%, but increase to 35% for affiliates whose players generate several thousands of hold on a regular basis. The difference here is that this is OPENLY available to ALL affiliates, it formas part of the terms of the contract, and is NOT an "under the counter" deal negotiated with favoured affiliates.

There ARE however some programs that will offer some affiliates "special advertising deals" that they can use to attract players. This is again a disadvantage to those affiliates not favoured, but at least the program is not breaking it's OWN contract with it's network to offer such deals. The problem with this case is that this deal did not just disadvantage lesser affiliates, it was a breach of the contract between Tower Gaming and Ongame to even offer such a deal.
Just like fraudulent players/affiliates in the casino industry, it goes on, but there is little sympathy when those involved get "their fingers burned" when things turn sour.

 

[multirake]

This player who generated 15K, was this the same one you & David conspired to steal from another affiliate, provided it wasn't noticed?

NO honest affiliate is going to side with another who has knowingly accepted a deal whereby players are stolen from lesser affiliates, and put on his account.

If David Visser is offering such deals, and is a DIRECTOR of Tower Gaming, this IS a serious matter, but NOT for the reasons you think it is, but because he is offering "illegal" deals to favoured affiliates to the disadvantage of "regular" affiliates.

Ongame may have found out because you checked out some of David's lies with them, the ones about you being blacklisted.
Maybe when Ongame lit a fire under David's a$$ over this, he decided to screw YOU to save is own a$$, by saying he only recently found out you were promoting rakeback in the hope Ongame would believe this, and not levy a fine. In order to make this story credible, David cannot now just PAY you, or Ongame might ask why he paid an affiliate he has just discovered acting in breach of the terms.

You MAY get paid eventually to "go away", rather than continue to dig this issue over. David is likely to be more careful in future.

To pursue this further as a matter of "public interest" you will need PROOF that David was indeed behind these deals, AND that they were illegal under network rules. This would demonstrate to others that David is not a good person to deal with, and may even result in Ongame taking further action over this.

On the plus side, you have CLEARLY never been an affiliate for the Virtual Casino Group

Hey

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account


I have made a print screen of the chats we had and i have forward it to Ongame this is why the entire mood changed. Before i received an email saying that i was going to be paid, I think i been a pretty patient person.

I had back surgery and over a period of 3 months all those false promises never came true. My players didnt receive the bonus and payments were not processed and when you try to contact them, either offline or you never got a reply back over the email.

All the information that i have is recorded for proof, what really annoys me is that this guy after all of this had the courage to say i fabricated the material. After i sent all the information to his Network, i guess he was singing a different song.

Having worked in the industry, you learn that not all affiliates are treated the same. By this i mean the deals you offer them, most sites offer higher rev or cpa to affiliates that produce higher income for the site and i think its only natural.

A person with 1 player is not going to get a 60-70% gross deal. But at the end of the day, what happened to being a man of your word? This would never happen if the guy was simply doing his job.

I mean, all he had to do is be honest. I received over 4 emails that my payment was processed and that the player bonus situation was fixed. Only to find out its a lie .

I guess at one point, enough is enough.

 

[dominique]

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account

You stole and profited (or tried to) from another affiliate's work.

For that reason alone you should not be paid. Period.

Plus i never seen an affiliate manager lie directly to their affiliates.

That should be the quote of the month, coming from the ex-Stryyke affiliate manager.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hey

The player you speak of was tracked to another affiliate and after speaking to David the player was transferred into my affiliate account

I have made a print screen of the chats we had and i have forward it to Ongame this is why the entire mood changed. Before i received an email saying that i was going to be paid, I think i been a pretty patient person.

I had back surgery and over a period of 3 months all those false promises never came true. My players didnt receive the bonus and payments were not processed and when you try to contact them, either offline or you never got a reply back over the email.

All the information that i have is recorded for proof, what really annoys me is that this guy after all of this had the courage to say i fabricated the material. After i sent all the information to his Network, i guess he was singing a different song.

Having worked in the industry, you learn that not all affiliates are treated the same. By this i mean the deals you offer them, most sites offer higher rev or cpa to affiliates that produce higher income for the site and i think its only natural.

A person with 1 player is not going to get a 60-70% gross deal. But at the end of the day, what happened to being a man of your word? This would never happen if the guy was simply doing his job.

I mean, all he had to do is be honest. I received over 4 emails that my payment was processed and that the player bonus situation was fixed. Only to find out its a lie .

I guess at one point, enough is enough.

FRAUD, nothing less. This other affiliate brought the player in to Tower Gaming, and David & yourself conspired to have him transferred to your account. This would be considered a CRIMINAL matter in some quarters, and certainly would provide enough grounds for a civil claim for damages.

The fact that David was prepared to do this should give advance warning about his ethics. He was quite prepared to screw over this other affiliate to steal what was probably his best player, and turn him over to you. The other affiliate probably suffered considerable loss, having a player of this calibre stolen from him. He probably didn't have the tools to notice the difference between this theft, and the player simply leaving of his own accord (unless, of course, he made regular contact with his players, in which case this deception may have come to light).

Now, for some reason, it has become in the best interests of David to screw YOU over. Now, he has this high calibre player, and is paying NO-ONE any commission. He accuses you of fabricating the information, since to do otherwise could be the end of his skin being on the Ongame network, or at the least a large fine being levied - he has a hell of a lot to lose by keeping to his word, and nothing really to gain, since you have already "grassed him up" to Ongame.

Naturally, PLAYERS will be reading all about this, and will AGAIN start to wonder about online poker, and whether "insiders" have stacked the deck against the "fish". This deal seems only to benefit players who find the right rakeback sites, but what about OTHER equally shady deals that might be going on, which may influence the fairness of the game itself, one example could be special "fast track" entry to tournaments, which happens anyway for the top players, but the worry might be that corruption has played a part in the process.

The big scandals, of which Absolute Poker was but one, have shown that the networks will DENY EVERYTHING, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that something is wrong. Any admission that something has indeed gone wrong has to be dragged out of them, and even then they try to make out it was some rogue element that they had no idea of, and no way to detect and stop.

 

[multirake]

You stole and profited (or tried to) from another affiliate's work.

For that reason alone you should not be paid. Period.



That should be the quote of the month, coming from the ex-Stryyke affiliate manager.

Dominique,

We all know you get paid from Tower, thank you for your support. If you read the message posted, you will see that i asked David to track the player because he was tracked to another affiliate by mistake.

This goes to prove you are the biggest tool in the forum. I already said previously that i know they wont pay. They got a fine from the network and now they are trying to hide all the scams.

I would think if someone had prove they would actually show them. Instead they asked you to hush the entire situation by closing the post and stating that the matter was resolved. If you have any prove that the matter was resolved it would be nice for you to post something useful.

The player that complained about his rake ( over 15k) was not the player that dave changed to my account.

FRAUD, nothing less. This other affiliate brought the player in to Tower Gaming, and David & yourself conspired to have him transferred to your account. This would be considered a CRIMINAL matter in some quarters, and certainly would provide enough grounds for a civil claim for damages.

The fact that David was prepared to do this should give advance warning about his ethics. He was quite prepared to screw over this other affiliate to steal what was probably his best player, and turn him over to you. The other affiliate probably suffered considerable loss, having a player of this calibre stolen from him. He probably didn't have the tools to notice the difference between this theft, and the player simply leaving of his own accord (unless, of course, he made regular contact with his players, in which case this deception may have come to light).

Now, for some reason, it has become in the best interests of David to screw YOU over. Now, he has this high calibre player, and is paying NO-ONE any commission. He accuses you of fabricating the information, since to do otherwise could be the end of his skin being on the Ongame network, or at the least a large fine being levied - he has a hell of a lot to lose by keeping to his word, and nothing really to gain, since you have already "grassed him up" to Ongame.

Naturally, PLAYERS will be reading all about this, and will AGAIN start to wonder about online poker, and whether "insiders" have stacked the deck against the "fish". This deal seems only to benefit players who find the right rakeback sites, but what about OTHER equally shady deals that might be going on, which may influence the fairness of the game itself, one example could be special "fast track" entry to tournaments, which happens anyway for the top players, but the worry might be that corruption has played a part in the process.

The big scandals, of which Absolute Poker was but one, have shown that the networks will DENY EVERYTHING, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that something is wrong. Any admission that something has indeed gone wrong has to be dragged out of them, and even then they try to make out it was some rogue element that they had no idea of, and no way to detect and stop.

Hey vinylweatherman,

there is one thing you got mixed up, the player that david visser changed into my account was not the player that raked over 15k. I acquired a player via a forum, and when the player contacted me regarding his bonus, i contacted Tower to add a bonus into his account. From that contact i learned that the player was tracked to another affiliate by mistake. I have the email of the players information and his request.

I agree with you, on the matter of him having alot to lose due to me contacting his network. At the end of the day, for me the main concerns is to assist your players, for a period over 3 months nothing really came true of the promises and deals which we had. The only thing i got out of it was-
lies " you are a blacklisted affiliate" " you promoted rake". Thats very easy to say to try to cover up the story.

To me the main problem is this- we all know that the best deals for you to get is via small sites, since they look to have you promote them and they tend to offer you a deal. Personally before this happened, i felt that Tower was a pretty good poker room, did my research, never saw any problems with payments etc. Only to find out that this happened, alot of people complain about the larger sites, giving bad deals, but rest assure for me i rather be safe and have a smaller incentive, than being ripped off and scammed by David Visser and TOWER GAMING

Offcourse the networks will try to deny, most of them are placed in the stock market and they have alot to lose. Plus when something unethical pops up, you will see that you never get any replies or answers to your questions, thats their way to cover up or not blow the situation any bigger.

Having worked for a bad company before, there is alot of dark and bad things that happen in this industry. Probably not much will be resolved and personally i think the only way for things to get exposed is via the forums.

 

[dominique]

The player was not credited to the other affiliate by mistake. He was credited to the rightful affiliate because he did not do what you told him to do in order to avoid being credited correctly - he didn't clear out the cookies from the rightful affiliate. Maybe you forgot to tell him to, or maybe he forgot, or perhaps the player had a sense of fairness. I would assume the latter. Some people don't think theft is ok, you know.

[9/23/2009 6:25:35 PM] David Visser: ok - how did he come through that affiliate?
[9/23/2009 6:25:46 PM] David Visser: did he not clear cookies?

You schemed to steal another affiliate's rightfully earned income. I have zero tolerance for that. I know it is done every day by a number of people, but when it comes to my attention I will not sit still and watch it quietly. It is wrong to steal.

I have already stated clearly that I have never received a penny from Tower, and I am not here defending what Tower did. I am defending affiliates at large against theft. If Tower facilitated this, then you both deserve each other.

I closed your thread because I will not be an accessory to your theft, I do NOT want you to get paid for stealing. Additionally, you were spamming the forum with duplicate posts and threads.

Any affiliate supporting you in stealing from their peers would be a fool. It may be common place in the company you keep, but it is not tolerated in the company I keep.

Add in the shenanigans that happened at Stryyke while you worked there, and your role in encouraging affiliates to continue to invest in a sinking ship, resulting in many, many people losing their income, and I think your character is not exactly conducive to rallying the help of other affiliates.

 

[multirake]

The player was not credited to the other affiliate by mistake. He was credited to the rightful affiliate because he did not do what you told him to do in order to avoid being credited correctly - he didn't clear out the cookies from the rightful affiliate. Maybe you forgot to tell him to, or maybe he forgot, or perhaps the player had a sense of fairness. I would assume the latter. Some people don't think theft is ok, you know.



You schemed to steal another affiliate's rightfully earned income. I have zero tolerance for that. I know it is done every day by a number of people, but when it comes to my attention I will not sit still and watch it quietly. It is wrong to steal.

I have already stated clearly that I have never received a penny from Tower, and I am not here defending what Tower did. I am defending affiliates at large against theft. If Tower facilitated this, then you both deserve each other.

I closed your thread because I will not be an accessory to your theft, I do NOT want you to get paid for stealing. Additionally, you were spamming the forum with duplicate posts and threads.

Any affiliate supporting you in stealing from their peers would be a fool. It may be common place in the company you keep, but it is not tolerated in the company I keep.

Add in the shenanigans that happened at Stryyke while you worked there, and your role in encouraging affiliates to continue to invest in a sinking ship, resulting in many, many people losing their income, and I think your character is not exactly conducive to rallying the help of other affiliates.

Actually you closed my thread because you thought the situation was RESOLVED.

As far as stealing, i never stole any player. I passed the player the bonus code which i was given. Second of all i never encouraged any affiliates to invest in a sinking ship and i have assisted my players and affiliates to recover their money.

 

[dominique]

Let's not tippy-toe around this.

You gave your bonus code to a player that was tagged to another affiliate. That is good and fine, it's good for the player and I have done it many times.

But when you realized that this player was still tagged where he belonged after he played his coupon, you went and asked to have him changed over to your tag. That is the point where it becomes theft.

Not to mention the right of the player to determine his/her own choice of sites s/he wants to support.

These backroom deals violate ethics, and hurt affiliates and players alike.

 

[multirake]

Let's not tippy-toe around this.

You gave your bonus code to a player that was tagged to another affiliate. That is good and fine, it's good for the player and I have done it many times.

But when you realized that this player was still tagged where he belonged after he played his coupon, you went and asked to have him changed over to your tag. That is the point where it becomes theft.

Not to mention the right of the player to determine his/her own choice of sites s/he wants to support.

These backroom deals violate ethics, and hurt affiliates and players alike.

I asked why the player was not tracked to my account, since according to the player he didnt have an affiliate.

So where do you see that this act is theft of anykind?

I think its only normal procedure that all affiliates do when the player is not tracked to their account

 

[multirake]

Dominique,

You continue with these "back deals" hurt affiliates.

This is poker, its not a utopia. So you really believe that all sites play fair and give identical deals to all affiliates.

Plus not to mention that Tower Gaming is listed in several rakeback site.

The point of this is for all to see the shady stuff, the guy asked me to create another account, delayed my payments and tried to lie that i was a blacklisted affiliate.

Tomorrow i will post more evidence on the chats.

 

[dominique]

Dominique,


This is poker, its not a utopia. So you really believe that all sites play fair and give identical deals to all affiliates.

No, I don't believe that. And that is my point exactly.

Anyway, I'm tired of running around in circles. People like you are the reason why I, along with a lot of other respectable affiliates, do not attempt to monetize poker. I provide playing guides and tips and such as a service to my visitors, beyond that I give it no time.

If I make no money with it, I don't have the aggravation of being stolen from.

 

[The Dude]

Admin Warning: flaming

...
This goes to prove you are the biggest tool in the forum...

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

Okay - that's strike two. One more transgression and yer outta here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I asked why the player was not tracked to my account, since according to the player he didnt have an affiliate.

So where do you see that this act is theft of anykind?

I think its only normal procedure that all affiliates do when the player is not tracked to their account

Seeing theft of some kind.........

[9/23/2009 6:25:35 PM] David Visser: ok - how did he come through that affiliate?
[9/23/2009 6:25:46 PM] David Visser: did he not clear cookies?
[9/23/2009 6:25:57 PM] Bruno: I am not sure
[9/23/2009 6:26:04 PM] Bruno: he has been playing for 1-2 months
[9/23/2009 6:26:12 PM] Bruno: and his bonus was finished
[9/23/2009 6:26:15 PM] Bruno: i contacted tom
[9/23/2009 6:26:20 PM] Bruno: he said to contact you
[9/23/2009 6:26:24 PM] Bruno: since you deal with bonuses
[9/23/2009 6:26:31 PM] Bruno: and he said the player is not tracked to me
[9/23/2009 6:27:19 PM] David Visser: ok switched - but if that affiliate says somthing I will switch him back - I always play fair - for all parties

 

[Kane1910]

They cheated me too. They didn't honor our deal. (about 1500$ I lost to that cheaters.... ) If you want to sponsor a scam play in Tower Gaming with pleasure....
They didn't pay me what they should because ............... I had too good conditions in past !!!
+ I lost much health (priceless) due to that f&^&%^&g P5 software
+ money which I lost due to many bugs - especially PopUp Table On Action
function which somehow deactivated every day - and money which I lost when I
not play good because I was displayable from balance by that software (in
total it was hundred of dollars).
I propably should leave Ongame just after they introduced “outstanding” P5 software but as a loyal player I tortured there many months until I finally told STOP months ago. And from few months I even can’t open new Cake software (it is standard problem with Windows XP in Cake).
"Thanks" to that loyalty when I lost extremely much health and many dollars they additionally cheated me for about next 1500$....
I even asked only about part money from that deal - they refused few times!!!!
If somebody could help me?? Please...