Total Poker / webdollar can they do this?

120sam

Banned User
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Germany
I recently opened a Total Poker account. I and a friend of mine wanted to play a game using their software, and we played a heads up tournament. I won and tried to withdraw my winnings, and received the following:


Dear Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for contacting WebDollar Ltd. support.

Our security systems have detected play deemed inappropriate or consistent with fraudulent activity. Therefore your account has been locked and your poker membership revoked by the Poker fraud department.

Due to security reason WebDollar is going to freeze your remaining funds for six month. Please contact us again in six month.

Best regards,

Francis
WebDollar Support Representative


I have absolutely no idea why webdollar should adopt this position. I can only suspect that our geographical proximity raised some kind of flag. There is nothing in their rules that says they object to friends playing each other using their software, so how was I to know? We played a heads up tournament, no other players were involved.

As far as I am concerned webdollar are not an authority figure, and the fact that they have "deemed" something does not give them the right to judge and impose punishment. They are a private business to whom I have entrusted my money, and they claim to be entitled to steal / withhold my funds for six months for breach of some rule they never made me aware of. They haven't made clear what their problem is, so of course I can't respond to it.

I have around $1000 balance in my Total Poker account, and a pending withdrawal of around $1000, so they are basically saying they are hanging on to around $2000 of mine for 6 months, and haven't said they'll return it to me after that. What is the purpose / justification of this six-month period? Did they just pluck the figure of six months out of their air for anyone "deemed" to trangress their (flawed) "security system"?

Feedback very welcome, because I don't have a clue what's going on here. I really don't care if they don't want my custom (I'll never play there again anyway after this), but stealing my money? Are they not accountable?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Are you the only person using your computer? If it's a shared computer and these people also have accounts, then there might be a problem.
 

120sam

Banned User
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Germany
I am the only person using my computer. I played from my computer in my house, my friend played from his computer in his house. Webdollar should be able to prove this by checking ISPs and whatever else they check to see that they were different computers.

I have asked webdollar to confirm that they do at least guarantee to pay my money after 6 months, and I am waiting for a reply. I have no idea what the problem is, because webdollar won't discuss it. I really don't like their use of the word "fraud", or the fact that they won't define it.
 

120sam

Banned User
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Germany
Dear Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for contacting WebDollar Ltd. support.

We want to inform you that we cant guarantee that we will return your funds. You have to contact WebDollar after six month and after that they will take a decision about what will happen to your remaining funds.

Best regards,

Kristina
WebDollar Support Representative

This is totally unacceptable. Does anyone have any contacts with webdollar? They don't appear to have a rep here.
 

fatshaft

Full Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Isle of Man
So how many hands did you "play" in this sit'n'go to win?

Have either of you played any other games ever?

If not then your actions are highly suspicious, and no wonder your account is locked.
 

The Ronin

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Location
Back East
WebDollar has gained substantial experience in the areas of risk management and fraud control. WebDollar combines a sound risk analysis philosophy with proficient staff to prevent fraud and money laundering attempts.

A highly sophisticated automatic verification procedure, BVerified, has been designed to enable smart-pattern recognition in an ever-changing environment. BVerified offers unmatched flexibility in defining the level and scope of security measures, and provides essential tools for generating comprehensive reports. WebDollar's innovative risk management program involves more than just an automated system; skilled and experienced members of the WebDollar Fraud Control team continuously monitor transactions to further detect irregular activities and risk situations.

This is from their main page. Perhaps they are claiming you or your friend used an unauthorized deposit method, such as a new or stolen credit card to fund a web-dollar account. If so, they should say so.

Perhaps they are claiming your friend chip dumped to you, in an effort to launder illegal funds. Again, they should say so.

Perhaps, buried deep in the user agreement you signed when you opened your web dollar account, there is a clause that stipulates you authorize them to hold onto funds they deem fraudulent, for a period of six months, and at the end of six months, they will decide if they should keep your money, or pay it to you, minus any interest accrued ;) once again, if that is the case, they should email you a copy of that clause, and prove to you that they are acting appropriately.

So far, from what you have displayed, they invoked something, for some reason that is vague, and borderline criminal. If you violated a specific policy, you should at least be told what it is you violated, and given some sort of arbitration or appeal process you can begin.

Unless you are failing to display the entire list of facts, it would appear on the surface, that web dollar has some explaining to do!

A few facts need to be stated IMHO:

Did you use an unauthorized or new method to fund your web dollar account?

Did your friend use an unauthorized or new method to fund their web dollar account?

Was their a series of peer transfers that were used to fund your account, then used to fund a poker account, with the intention, knowingly or otherwise, to "launder" those funds?

How long have you had your web dollar account, and your poker account?

How long has your friend had his web dollar account and his poker account?

These questions may seem intrusive, and somewhat silly, but I think you will find more help, if you are open and honest with the members here. Thus far your story seems one sided and vague. Granted web dollars side doesn't appear much better. At least one side should lay it all on the line, so everyone can at least make an educated opinion on what happened, and perhaps someone can offer assistance. :thumbsup:
 

120sam

Banned User
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Germany
Did you use an unauthorized or new method to fund your web dollar account?

I used my neteller account I've had for over 3 years.

Did your friend use an unauthorized or new method to fund their web dollar account?

He will have used Neteller or Click2Pay.

Was their a series of peer transfers that were used to fund your account, then used to fund a poker account, with the intention, knowingly or otherwise, to "launder" those funds?

Not sure what this question means. I don't do any peer to peer transfers with my neteller account, and I have never transfered funds to this friend by any online payment method.

How long have you had your web dollar account, and your poker account?

I opened the poker account at the end of May. I was redirected to Total Poker when I tried to open a poker account at a webdollar casino where I've had an account for much longer.

How long has your friend had his web dollar account and his poker account?

I don't know, I think his poker account was fairly new, I don't know which casino it was from. I haven't had a chance to speak to him since this happened. I'm not sure what funds he still has in his account, if any, but he hasn't been in touch in a panic or anything so he probably isn't affected.

As to the other poster's question, it was a fairly normal lengh tournament game. I can't remember the details (I've played a lot of other tournements since then) but I do remember the blinds went up a few times.
 

Centre-Wise

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Location
Sydney
HI,

You said you played a games of heads up and then tried to withdrawal?

How quick was the headsup game, was there any aspect that could have been mistaken as team play, cheating, colluding, fraud or any other word you care to describe it as.

They would not have sent you that email without something further, perhaps a IP match? Serial Match?

My advise would be to request to speak to management or fraud directly so they can give you some sort of idea how your play was deemed fraudulent.

Please be aware if you won the game on a questionable hand, or used the tournament to transfer funds between yourself and your friend this can be enough for an investigation to be carried out, which usualy results in an email such as the one posted.

Hope i could help, but without further info we dont have much to go on.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
How much more info do you need?

As to the other poster's question, it was a fairly normal lengh tournament game. I can't remember the details (I've played a lot of other tournements since then) but I do remember the blinds went up a few times.

Not sure what this question means. I don't do any peer to peer transfers with my neteller account, and I have never transfered funds to this friend by any online payment method.

I am the only person using my computer. I played from my computer in my house, my friend played from his computer in his house. Webdollar should be able to prove this by checking ISPs and whatever else they check to see that they were different computers.
 

WAYLANDER

Webmeister
webmeister
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
uk
Interesting

I find this thread interesting and something i have often wondered about

All my views in this post are assuming there are no money laundering issues/fraud

What exactly is wrong with two friends playing a heads up tournament/cash game?
What harm can come out of it ? .... there is no one else involved so collusion and cheating dont come into the equation.
What makes a " questionable hand " , when i am playing in home games you should hear/see all the crap that we come out with! i dont think its even against the rules in proffesional poker to show one or even both cards to your opponent in a heads up situation before they have even made their decision.
The card room still get their fee/rake
Some card rooms let you transfer money from person to person anyway.. Party Poker being one ( havent checked this today, but i know they did ) so if the biggest poker room on the planet think its ok it cant be too bad anyway.
What makes a friend? i have met loads of players online that i regularly chat too and play against, who i will talk to about all sorts of things whilst playing poker..... am i now not allowed to play heads up with them ?
I just cant see the harm

WAYLANDER
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I am the only person using my computer...

But maybe you mistakenly opened more than one account on your computer. There are ways that this is detected. What do you think?
 

Deborschti

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Location
South of Spain
Chipdumping

Hi,

It seems they suspect you of chip dumping.
Let's say you have a few grand of dirty money to launder, you could simply lose them to a friend, he would get clean poker winnings.
If it would be that easy sure the mafia :gunmen: would love poker.

So probably they think you laundered or tried to launder money by dumping chips to someone else.

Try to demonstrate the contrary to them.

Good luck.

Deborschti
 
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