To publicize or not to publicize, that is the question.


Dormant account
Nov 19, 2005
New York State
Hi everyone :D ,

I can't recall, but this might be my first post here so bear with me.

I am wondering how long it usually takes to hear back on a pitch a bitch submission to Bryan. Its the holiday season so I realize many people, Bryan included, are otherwise distracted. (I submitted my pitches back on December 12th.)

How long should I wait to hear about my pitch a bitch before posting about it here? Should I post about it here?:confused:

Anyway, I want to be sure to respect that this is Bryan's forum and that what he does is for the benefit of all players.:notworthy

On the otherhand, I feel like I was dealt a poor hand, if you'll excuse the pun, by two casinos and their mutual accounts department.:machinegu As such, I am interested in getting feedback and input on the situation by other players, casino managers and of course Bryan.

During this past month I've been swamped by PABs, which is really frustrating for me since I don't like getting behind, and I want to take care of them as swiftly as possible.

If you feel that it's taking too long, and you want to get it off your chest and out into the open, by all means knock yourself out - it's your complaint.

The PAB section is set up primarily for players to give me the information I need to relay to the casino so that their issue can be handled quickly - usually going straight to the management level or higher.

Feel free to complain in the forum as well, but be tactful and try to use language that is free from emotionalism, unless of course you really don't care what happens :D There are many casino operators that are members here, and even if they are not listed - many frequent this forum to make sure there are no fires burning:
Thanks for the post Bryan.:thumbsup:

I thought you might be backed up - which is why I have not posted here yet.
I want to give you time to at least read my pitches before posting my story.

In the long run, however, I feel that people might benefit from my story. Its not so much about getting it off my chest as it is about letting others know what can happen, even at those companies with the best of intentions and even when players have the best of intentions.

I am not interested in flaming any of the companies involved, or any of the individuals involved as I don't see how that serves anyone. Stating the facts and letting others be the judge is all that's important.

Once you have read my pitches (yes there are more than one - but they are related) I would like to post the whole story (except for account details of course) here for others to view. Maybe it will help others, maybe it won't.

Anyhow, thanks for creating this forum Bryan. I think its a great idea.:)
SlickWilly said:
I thought you might be backed up - which is why I have not posted here yet. I want to give you time to at least read my pitches before posting my story.

C'mon man, give us all the gory details! We want to know!

Besides, I think it's the right thing to do to keep the complaints public, as long as they're legit, and the manner in which they are presented is according to Casinomeister's forum rules.

Keeping things in the open will benefit not only us the paying customers, but the industry as well. We've seen it happen here - as soon as the complaint goes public, the casino will be quick to make things right.

Moreover, the complaints thread is one of CM's biggest attractions - we don't want to let it die down:D

Thanks for the interest SM.

I will certainly post the details once Bryan (aka CM) has had a chance to read my PAB's and deal with the PABs accordingly. I do this out of respect for Bryan and the casinos involved.

I am not interested in creating havoc but clear, explicit lines of communication that benefit all. If my story benefits people, great, if it doesn't then at least I have had my say and people know what to beware of.

In the end I hope everything is copascetic with all interested parties.

While I am waiting to hear back from Bryan on my PABs here's an interesting aside.:rolleyes:

Today I received an email from one of the casino's that has effectively banned me from their site. Using my first name they encourage me to come back and play because of a special prize they are offering players on one of their slot machines.

Back on December 9th, 2005 I asked why they were sending me such emails.

Here is exactly what I wrote to them:

"Why on earth are you sending these emails to me if you have locked my account?"

Here is their response received on December 11th, 2005.

"Please accept our apologies. I will inform the Casino Manager so he will not send you any more emails."

Since that time I have not received any emails from the Casino until now.

Now, I am frustrated with this casino as it is.:mad: They locked my account (and subsequently have deleted it I believe) and now they start sending me emails again. What has changed? .....

What the helk is going on with these casinos? One hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I shouldn't have to email them again to get this stuff stopped.

I will tell you that it is this kind of mishandling of accounts and account information that got me erroneously banned/locked out of their casino in the first place.

On a final note for this post, I promise to post the whole story on Monday, January 6th, 2006 whether I hear back on my PAB's from Bryan (CM) :notworthy or not.

I feel that a reasonable amount of time has passed for the PAB's to be addressed by the casinos involved. I will be sure to PM all interested parties and adhere to a respectful level of reporting when I do so. :cool:
This is one of the most valuable parts of the forum. No sense in keeping an issue secret. Just put it out there and let us make our own decisions whether to play at a casino or not (based on all the factors, including the complaint).
Without further adieu .....

Ok, here's my recent odyssey with two casinos and the accounting company they use. These are the facts - as I have lived them. I can back up everything with evidence - save the telephone calls that occurred between myself and the casinos.

The two casinos are Intercasino and the Sands of the Caribbean and their mutual payment merchant - ECash Direct. I want to start by saying that I do not bear ill will towards the casinos - but I am disappointed in the treatment they gave me. I was a very loyal player with Intercasino - in one month alone I bet through the equivalent of $110,000. That's a lot of cabbage.

Ok so here goes.

In July of this year I ran into some serious money troubles such that I incurred chargebacks with several online payment merchants.:oops: These chargebacks resulted from deposits that I made with Intercasino. Before the banking merchants even realized that the chargebacks would occur - I informed them and worked out a repayment plan. These payment merchants included NETeller, 900Pay and Citadel. These problems resulted in Intercasino locking my account with them until all vendors were paid. They also locked my mother's account as well. I believe they locked both our accounts because 900Pay uses one's phone billing information. Her name appears as the owner of my phone bill, though I pay that bill. Long story short, they locked her account due to my issues.

All the merchants were paid for any outstanding funds within a 4 - 6 week period. This included any chargeback fees the merchants were owed as well those charged by my bank. And let me tell you it was pricey. I took responsibility and got the mess cleaned up.

I got my financial house back in order and was playing at Interasino again before too long. Incidentally, Intercasino also immediately unlocked my mother's account once they had the all clear from the merchants involved. They (Intercasino) acknowledged locking both of the accounts together because of some relationship with 900Pay.

Upon playing at Intercasino this time, I was much more cautious and exercised better control over my finances. Once burned - lesson learned. Yada yada yada...etc.

After several weeks of playing - in the last week of October - I discovered that Intercasino had once again locked my account (and my mother's account). This locking of the account's was only discovered by attempting to log in. Intercasino, it seems, takes no active role in alerting players to whatever problems lead to the lockout. I knew it had to be 900Pay because I hadn't checked that account in awhile. Checking their site confirmed it for me. Initially Intercasino informed me it was 900Pay as well.

As it turned out, a deposit I had made back in July with Intercasino (using 900Pay), was charged back to 900Pay by my telephone company. In fairness to IC, I knew the chargeback was coming but not to 900Pay. My phone company had sent me a special paper bill acknowledging the chargeback to a company other than 900Pay. I fully expected to be contacted by this company but never was. To be honest I thought the name looked like that of a collection company but I guess I was wrong. This chargeback to 900Pay occurred because my phone company had simply charged the funds back to 900Pay without allowing me time to pay it when it was on my bill. (An aside: my phone company failed to send my electronic bills to my email account using their "electronic billing". They don't send you a phone bill when they do this, except for special issues as noted above. I had it out with them over this as well.)

Anyhow, suffice to say it took 900Pay over a week to confirm that the amount in question was actually a chargeback from my telephone company. Apparently no one there knew what or where it was from - for quite some time. Once they confirmed what it was, I paid it. End of story.

Now, it then took Intercasino approximately a week to get this straightened out. At first they said it was 900Pay - and they needed an email directly from 900Pay confirming my account with them as clear. I got 900Pay to send it. Then once they had that, they insisted I forward them a copy of the message that 900Pay had earlier sent to me, which stated my account was clear. Yes this was redundant but I did it anyway. Keep in mind, all the while now I am being promised that once all the information is in, my account will be reopened.

After getting them all the information they could possibly need they then switched their tune.:confused: Now, they said there was a NETeller chargeback and that NETeller wasn't clear. At this point I was completely confounded with Intercasino's treatment of my account. If it were true that NETeller had issues with my account with them would I have been able to make several recent deposits using NETeller with Intercasino?:what: Anyway, I got NETeller to email Intercasino directly and then also forwarded Intercasino an email that I had subsequently received from NETeller stating the same all clear message. Yes, this was also redundant but I did it anyway.

Sometime around the middle of November my account was cleared again and was reopened.:thumbsup: Now here's where it gets hinky (strange).:eek: For the grief they caused me at Intercasino, the casino graciously awarded me a $100 bonus.:D It was quite nice and unexpected. The problem was that my mother's account was still locked at this time. They apparently forgot this time to reopen her account when they cleared mine.

She emailed them again and again over a 10 period or so with no response. Because of this oversight and the fact that she was being ignored I got involved to try and clear things up with IC once more. After all, it was my fault she got locked out.

After trying to explain the mistake that Intercasino had made in keeping my mother's account locked I learned just how messed up they had things there. Sometime near the end of the third week in November, Intercasino locked my account again. In intervening on my mother's behalf they pulled the same chargeback issue that was still on the books in her account (that I had just cleared mind you) back into my account! :mad: Now I was back to square one and both of us were locked out again!

In trying to get them to see what they did - they simply insisted this was a new issue and had to be dealt with.:what: Again, I got 900Pay and NETeller to vouch for the status of my accounts. And despite all Intercasino's promises this time, that my account would once again be open this never happened.:eek: Once they received the all clear from NETeller and 900Pay and had been informed that there were in fact no chargebacks at all in November - Intercasino permanently locked my account. I was informed of this during a phone call I made to Intercasino which I thought I was making to finally get things sorted out. This was now the end of November.

I was in shock. This was their error. They ghosted the chargeback that had been cleared from my account back into my account when I explained that they had not reopened my mother's account. Instead of clearing it from my mother's account too, they simply spread it back to mine.:what:

Now here's another thing that frustrates me. Intercasino insisted, at least at the time, that they didn't ban me but that ECash Direct was responsible and as far as accounts go they defer completely to ECash Direct. So I am not banned by the casino per se just permanently locked out because of ECash Direct. (An aside: currently the account appears to have been deleted.) The final kicker is that I wasn't allowed to speak directly with the accounts people at ECash Direct who, according to Intercasino, were responsible for closing my account. I got some "go between" at Intercasino who insisted he was as shocked as I was that they wouldn't reopen my account. As for Ryan Hartley at IC, he got involved at one point and then I never heard from him again. So as far as I know he's aware of the problem but wasn't or isn't interested in my problem.

To IC's credit - they did reopen mother's account and she is able to play there to this day. So they did get the issues cleared from her account. But once they ghosted the problem back into mine it was there to stay.

It would however take another three weeks before they would send me my money that had been locked in my Intercasino account. Approximately $500. I had been winning at the time of the final lockout. The final insult was that they charged me a cashout fee! They lock my account for their mistake, and then charge me a fee to send me my money. But I got paid, eventually.

I wish it was over at that point but unfortunately it was not. Why, do you ask?

Well, in really enjoying the avatar type casino that Intercasino uses I sought out another casino using similar software and found the Sands of the Caribbean. I found it by checking out the accredited casinos links on

It looked good so I created an account with them. I wasn't happy to see that ECash Direct was their merchant so I gave them a few days to delete my account if their was going to be a problem.

After a few days my account was still fine and working so I deposited. Not only did they not give me the playing bonus they offered, but they locked my account as soon as they had my money! When I went to play at a table - I was informed my account was locked by an onscreen message. The Sands informed me of a payment issue with NETeller when I contacted them.

AAAAAAAAAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Total frustration. And now the problem at Intercasino was keeping me from playing at another casino. Supposedly an independent one.

Forgive me for beating a dead horse but if it were true that NETeller had a problem with my account, would NETeller have approved the deposit that I had just made to the Sands!? I think not. In fact, I know they wouldn't have from my earlier experiences outlined above.

So apparently, ECash Direct still has there facts wrong. What makes it worse is it that despite having no history with the Sands - ECash was using information gathered with other casinos! I was never informed of this nor consented to this.

My gripe with the Sands and ECash is this. If I'm not allowed to play at your casino then don't allow me to create an account. Don't allow me to deposit either. And don't lock up my money. To the Sands credit, it only took two weeks to get my money back and it was credited back to NETeller. Ofcourse I requested this immediately this time. And they didn't hit me for the cashout fee that IC did - which is only just since they never let me play. The Sands did make the same promises however about getting all the proof from NETeller and 900Pay with the ultimate goal of opening my account. The account never opened again.

Now aside from all this mistake stuff with IC and ECash Direct, I am left wondering what the real relationship is between ECash Direct, Intercasino and The Sands of the Caribbean. Does ECash Direct really own these casinos or are they truly an independent accounting firm? Like I said, I am left wondering.

Ok, I think that's most of it. Perhaps if the Casino Reps and a real ECash Direct Rep care to respond we can debate the finer details and perhaps get my accounts open again. But this post is already rediculously long so I will leave that for another time, if that time comes to pass.

As far as what I would like to see done - I would like to play at Intercasino again. Intercasino had always treated me fairly before this debacle. I really enjoyed the realistic casino atmosphere and the multiplayer modes.

And while I recognize that chargebacks are an issue here - I paid all involved merchants in short time. Intercasino never lost a single dime on me and only made money. And all the merchants still accept my deposits to this day. Why shouldn't they when they made a mint off me with the chargebacks?

If this is how loyal players are treated at casinos then, in my mind, that's just not good enough. They treated me like someone who stiffed them when in fact they all made money on me.

Unfortunately, the message I am getting here is that if you incur chargebacks with online merchants don't pay them. Because the casinos involved will lock you out anyway, no matter if you make good with vendors or not. That is the logic being implied by the actions of Intercasino and Ecash Direct in their refusal to see that facts.

So a warning to players who may incur chargebacks with banking merchants - the casinos that accept them may ban you anyway. So buyer beware.

Well, that's my peace. It's out there. Let's see where logic leads us. I would like to see the casinos respond with a well thought out reply. Not the typical empty drivel.

Oh, and one more thing. If these casinos change their story now about why they locked my account - then what does that say about how much they can be trusted?

My apologies for the length of this post.
Ok, I have now officially PM'd both Ryan H at IC and Frank at the Sands.

However, I could not find a listing of anyone in charge at ECash Direct.

I will PM Bryan:notworthy , the big CM about a possible contact there.
Hi SlickWilly,

I haven't looked into this yet but it appears that it may have been an ECash decision to lock your account as you previously stated. Even though The Sands and Inter are different casinos under different ownership we still use the same ECash provider as do all Crypto sites. I will contact our customer support team to see if they can provide me with more information about this then get back to you ASAP. I will also see about getting you contact info for someone at Ecash since it seems this was their decision.


Non E-cash Crypto

Not all cryptos use E-cash. William Hill here in the UK run a casino linked to the sportsbook. Funds are transferred from the sportsbook into the Crypto casino each time you log on, and back again to the sportbook when you log off. The casino is pretty much as Intercasino apart from the lack of E-cash. William Hill made a management decision not to use E-cash (I don't know why), preferring to use their own interface from the sportsbook account.
I am not sure if they accept US players, but it might be worth checking. Information held at E-cash should not affect your rating, however if the issues have caused you to be listed on a credit database as high risk this might be a problem.
If your problems were caused by excessive gambling at Intercasino in the first place, a time-out might actually be of benefit to you. If you can get this problem resolved at Intercasino, perhaps you could make a fresh start, and ask that they set you lower gaming and table limits to prevent things getting out of hand. It may be wise to disassociate gaming transactions from the phone company and 900pay and citadel, as they will still have on file the previous issues and may be too quick to pull the plug in the future if anything appears amiss.
vinylweatherman said:
If your problems were caused by excessive gambling at Intercasino in the first place, a time-out might actually be of benefit to you. If you can get this problem resolved at Intercasino, perhaps you could make a fresh start, and ask that they set you lower gaming and table limits to prevent things getting out of hand. It may be wise to disassociate gaming transactions from the phone company and 900pay and citadel, as they will still have on file the previous issues and may be too quick to pull the plug in the future if anything appears amiss.

Thanks for the information vinylweatherman. I have seen William Hill and was not interested.

The problem is not excessive gambling nor table limits. I am not a big bet gambler.

Also, the reason I was locked out was because Ecash and Intercasino generated a false chargeback. As I laid out, I resolved all matters with each and every merchant, had these merchants verify this to ECash and IC. IC accepted this but when I tried to also clear my mother's account of the same issue they simply ghosted it back in.

My point is this: I was awarded a $100 bonus because IC and ECash took so long to clear things up on their end. I played for about two weeks, made some small deposits and worked my balance up to $500. But they hadn't cleared the same chargeback out of my mother's account - which had already been cleared away from mine. It's the SAME chargeback, its just that they didn't clear it out of hers too. When I intervened to enlighten them, they somehow added the chargeback back into my account instead of clearing it from both. What makes me now an unworthy player? The fact that I was winning money, the fact that I proved all chargebacks were cleared, or the fact that I tried to get them to remove the ghosted chargeback from my mother's account?

I was good enough to receive the $100 bonus. But suddenly, with no fault of my own, I am permanently locked out? Something's not right here.

They locked me out because they said that I had too many chargebacks. However, there were NO NEW chargebacks after receiving that $100 bonus. I hope that's clear. They simply generated a new one when they ghosted, the already cleared chargeback that still existed in mother's account, back into mine. It was then, and only then, did I get locked out permanently.

IC and ECash created a chargeback and then said I had too many. I did not have any new chargebacks and I can prove it. I did prove it too them and they just don't want to accept their mistake.

And I don't know how many ways I can say that.

It looks like you may have to discuss the matter of the genuine chargebacks to E-Cash. Intercasino seem to have accepted your point of view. You admit to having had financial issues, but these were not related to your gaming at Intercasino. E-Cash may have taken the view that you cannot manage your finances properly, and the falsely ghosted chargeback must have aggravated the issue. Since gaming is a grey area in law, I don't expect any redress there, however, if the ewallets and merchants have falsely applied chargebacks and "dirtied" your credit standing as a result after you had sorted it all out, this would be legal Libel, and they would be liable to clear your name at their expense and reinstate your credit rating. This would apply here in the UK also, and I believe E-cash is regulated in Gibraltar (have to check this), and would be liable under European and British data administration rules (to the extent that Gibraltar is British, but is part of the EEC, rather than the full EU politically). It would be down to the small print. This often states which juristiction applies to any dispute. I doubt that Intercasino or E-Cash use the "Juristictions of convenience" that some less reputable operations rely on.

Any Lawyers on Casinomeister?
It would be fair to say that I had financial issues that were due in part to gaming with Intercasino. However, all of those issues were behind me when Intercasino and ECash created the ghosted chargeback. I use the term ghosted because the chargeback is/was a reflection of an earlier chargeback issue that was improperly removed from the accounts (mine and my mother's).

As CM has pointed out before - since there is no legal governing body regulating online gaming the issue comes down to one of trust.

I am trusting that IC, the Sands and ECash will do the right thing given that I have laid the facts out here as bare as I can.

What I believe to be the right thing is to admit their mistakes as I have obviously admitted mine and address them by clearing my accounts and account histories of their mistake. The difference is I paid for my mistakes and responsibly addressed all the problems created by them. Where have they done the same in this instance?

All vendors/merchants were paid in full. I proved this to them time and again.

They have yet to own up to their created/ghosted chargeback and deal with this situation in a real way. Their only answer thus far has been to say "Oh well, that's the way it is. ECash has the final authority." etc...

I would imagine, however, that if the basis for trust is honesty and forthrightness in doing business, then these casinos and ECash have yet to even start rebuilding that trust with regards to this issue.

In the end, if they insist on their way - that's the way its gonna be. There's little I can do about that EXCEPT lay it out for would-be players at their casinos, as I have done here.
vinylweatherman said:
I believe E-cash is regulated in Gibraltar (have to check this), and would be liable under European and British data administration rules (to the extent that Gibraltar is British, but is part of the EEC, rather than the full EU politically).
To quote
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, "Gibraltar is self-governing British Overseas territory and a member of the European Union and the OECD Convention and Instruments apply to Gibraltar." Gibraltar is part of the EU (the EEC is now the EC and is one of the "pillars" of the EU), but Gibraltar is not part of the Common Agricultural Policy or the customs union.
I deal with people and lots of money in my line of work and hard as it is, if I get just ONE check that is returned, we no longer will accept anything other than cash,cashiers check or money order from this person.

The reason I state this is, because gambling is another world by itself and making a "chargeback" regardless if it was "ghosted" or not, the initial "chargebacks" that were created put a red flag on your account (IMHO)with the banking industry, and in my opinion, you were lucky getting them to accept you again in the first place.

ECash created the ghosted chargeback
I note that you keep referring BACK to this and I would like to say that you have lost sight of what initially created this problem which is
I incurred chargebacks with several online payment merchants.
Not one but SEVERAL.

Regardless of whether or not you cleared it up, IT HAPPENED, I would assume its on your record and the online Banking industry can and will do what it deems fit from a persons record of spending habits for they are putting THIER MONEY online, not yours in the long run, for if you never paid up, then the online banking must cover the shortages anyway they can to the casinos.

This is what I understood from your situation:
1. Played with funds you didn't have
2. Kept playing with funds you didn't have
3. Got caught with NUMEROUS chargebacks
4. Took weeks (why weeks?)to pay off charged backed funds
5. Paid back funds that were owed
6. Got a bonus
7. Banker decided to close account
8. Your mad because you screwed up your account reputation and the bank called you on it. (which is thier right at any given time, regardless of a reason, for You and YOU alone created the problem).

Sorry to say, I have to agree with e-Cash on this issue regardless of whether or not you paid back the monies DUE them for you seem to think that it was
What I believe to be the right thing is to admit their mistakes
Total baffling to ask someone to admit to something that was not created by them, for this is something that is in thier right to do, just as it is your right to play elsewhere without telling them.

Now everyone can blast me if you like.....for this is my opinion and I deal with these kind of things everyday in my life....and collecting funds owed is a tough thing to do much less a GAMBLING debt IMHO.
silcnlayc said:
making a "chargeback" regardless if it was "ghosted" or not, the initial "chargebacks" that were created put a red flag on your account (IMHO)with the banking industry, and in my opinion, you were lucky getting them to accept you again in the first place.

Yes, I was but my making subsequent transactions with Intercasino and ECash and paying for them immediately I also reestablished my worthiness.

silcnlayc said:
8. Your mad because you screwed up your account reputation and the bank called you on it. (which is thier right at any given time, regardless of a reason, for You and YOU alone created the problem).

Had they initially told me that they would not open my account again because I had too many chargebacks then I would have accepted that. I would also have repaid all merchants anyway. But they didn't do that. They said, get these accounts with these merchants cleaned up, send us the confirmations and we're good to go. And that's what I did.

silcnlayc said:
Now everyone can blast me if you like.....for this is my opinion and I deal with these kind of things everyday in my life....and collecting funds owed is a tough thing to do much less a GAMBLING debt IMHO.

Well I hope you don't get blasted because you raise some valid points. However, while your position is tenable here's where your arguments fall apart IMO.

First at no time did any of these places have to actively collect the funds owed to them. As I already mentioned I contacted the merchants in question before they even knew a problem existed. I was proactive in paying them back.

Second, the time to bar me from playing permanently would have been before they once again allowed me to deposit. If my money wasn't good then it wasn't good, right?

But they didn't do that. They accepted my money - allowed me to win several hundred dollars and then - upon trying to finally resolve every detail of the aforementioned matters - they permanently locked the account.

I didn't create new problems for them I was actively working to get everything cleared up.

And since you are obviously thinking business wise on this - then think about this.

1. All merchants were paid.
2. All merchants and banks were paid considerable chargeback fees. Fees that would easily outweigh any interest rates on a short term loan.
3. Everyone involved made money on my transactions. That includes Intercasino and all the merchants.

So as businesses, they all have done well for themselves with regards to my patronage. Your coloring of these businesses as victims is inaccurate in this case.

silcnlayc said:
for they are putting THIER MONEY online, not yours in the long run, for if you never paid up, then the online banking must cover the shortages anyway they can to the casinos.

Forget the ifs, lets speak in concrete terms of what happened. I am not someone that stiffed them I paid them.

Now had another person stiffed them and refused to pay, then I would agree with you. But that was not the case here. And of course I only followed the rules of repayment and recertification that Intercasino had mapped out for me.

silcnlayc said:
Total baffling to ask someone to admit to something that was not created by them, for this is something that is in thier right to do, just as it is your right to play elsewhere without telling them.

And on a final note when did it become ok for any banking institution to create false transactions or statements in someone's account, unintentional as it may be? Granted I was wrong in creating the real chargebacks. I see that clearly - but saying that an institution is allowed to create false transactions because I made earlier financial mistakes is ludicrous. If I have taken you of context here then I apologize but I think your implication is clear.
It is their business, so they have every right to boot you, and posting bad transactions is a pretty good reason.

When they told you your account would be cleared once you repaid everyone, maybe they were just saying that so you would indeed pay back your debts.

I think you are always going to have problems with the e-cash casinos (they won't forget).
Thanks for the input soflat.

They didn't boot me for the chargebacks - they booted me for one too many chargebacks. Notice I say one too many - because this last one apparently broke the camel's back so to speak.

The last one in question was not, is not a real chargeback. It is the same last chargeback I had already cleared. Is that splitting hairs... yes and no. Yes because as already pointed out I did have chargebacks that formed the basis of the problem. No because I was already proving myself to ECash, Intercasino and all the merchants by being proactive and repaying quickly and by making new deposits and paying those.

Also, I only followed what I would call the casino's recertification process. And I don't think they would have lied just to get me to pay the money back. Everything was straightforward until the ghosted chargeback appearred.

If, after I paid all the money back to the merchants they had decided to not open the account I would have found that disappointing but acceptable. Or had they put me on some suspension that would have been fine too. But that's not what happened here at all.

I think you will be surprised how reasonable, good online casinos can be, especially when players are sure to and have proven that they pay their debts.

I didn't come here to flame any of these companies but to point a flaw in the system within which I found myself. But yes I would like to see my account open again.

They don't have to do anything here. And from your point of view and silcnlayc's they shouldn't. However, I would argue that it makes not only for great player rapport but also good business sense to do so.

Like I have already said no one has lost any money on me by a longshot. I paid everyone. If it comes out that they don't reopen the account at Intercasino well then that's the way it is. I will have to accept that.

At least I will have made my point.
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SlickWilley, I am not attacking you personally in any way on what transpired. Let me explain this in business terms as you stated, because that IS where I am coming from.

1. Never antagonize the person you want to collect from.

2. Do not create an atmosphere of anger.

3. #1 goal is to collect the bad debts then do what needs to be done, such as closing account, whatever after all is cleared.

These people did not make any money off of you on the chargebacks for it took manpower to organize the "collection" of it, time, effort, paperwork, and bodies.

This is where the "fees went, not in their pockets.

You did the "honorable" thing when you made good all the chargebacks, but this does not show on paperwork which is where I think you have a mindset on.

There are no "gold" stars given to people that do the "right" thing after doing "wrong". Only the wrong shows up on your account and how long it took to take care of it. You said "weeks". This, is NOT acceptable for it shows you tried to use monies that you didn't have (black mark against you).

If, when you contacted the merchants/bank prior to it showing up on thier end, and you took care of it right then, this is acceptable, for you knew there would be a problem, owned up to it, made them aware of it, and corrected it in a short period of time, but you did not. You took care of it in "weeks". This is where the time and manpower has to come in to reflect the payments made, etc etc...

Just something to ponder over, for I know you aren't the first one that has had a chargebacks on one of the online banking accounts and won't be the last.
Hi silcnlayc,

I didn't feel personally attacked so all is good.

The points you just made are all valid. But just to be clear there was never a time when the merchants had to "collect" in the working sense of the term.

All they had to do was wait for the money to come in at the agreed upon times. I really did do a lot the work for them and rightly so. Yes, they have their people that do the collections thing for them in tough cases but this was not one of them.

I hear what you are saying about the weeks thing and how that gets logged. I also see what you mean about what doesn't get logged.

However, I suspect that somewhere in the process these merchants/online banks were noting the tone of our exchanges. Never once did they treat me poorly or with a 'let's get tough attitude'. They were courteous every step of the way and even helpful in sending good account standing statements to Intercasino when I was getting things cleared up with them.

With all the merchants I still have a good account relationship. I can play at most any casino online right now other than those using the ECash system. (I'm still hopeful that will change.)

In that sense these merchants have set a good precedent. It means that players who do have the right intent to pay their debts will still be treated well. I would imagine that players that don't pay or give them a hard time about paying are likely barred.

In all I have appreciated all the input here thus far. I hope people benefit from this post and the forum in general.

I will keep the forum posted on any outcome.
A resolution

Hi everyone and anyone,

I would like to announce that my situation has been amicably resolved with Intercasino.

Ryan Hartley at Intercasino contacted ECash Direct on my behalf and was able to arrange a compromise with them. The compromise was this: my account at Intercasino was reopened with NETeller as the only payment and withdrawal method.

I have since started playing at Intercasino again and am happy to be back. I really do love casinos that use avatars for multiplayer.

Frank at the Sands is also currently working with ECash Direct to resolve the situation there. While nothing is concrete there, I am hopeful that I will be able to one day play there as well.

If this resolution says anything to me it is this: situations can be resolved if people keep their wits about them. Flaming casinos before giving them a chance to appropriately respond is not advised nor likely to result in an acceptable outcome for all.

Forums like this work if both players and casinos are willing to communicate openly and honestly.

Finally, while Bryan (Casinomiester):notworthy has not posted much in this thread I suspect he may have been helpful behind the scenes. For that I am grateful and offer a BIG Thank you!:D

Thanks for reading this and hope to see you at the tables.

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