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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by A23456789TJQK, Jun 9, 2006.

    Jun 9, 2006
  1. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    Found in your terms:
    "This is not a large amount to wager considering that the average player will wager 40 X his original Deposits during any one session."

    ANY ONE SESSION

    So are you saying people who deposit say $25 will/can wager $1000. Could you please prove this?


    "Using the promotional bonus for no risk wagers does not fulfill your obligation with regard to the total amount wagered prior to cash in."

    If that player really would and could wager his deposit 25x then he must be playing one of your 'no risk' games. Could you tell me which ones are these?:notworthy :rolleyes:

    "Maple Casino management reserves the right to determine whether play has been deemed to be promotion abuse even though there may have been compliance with the above terms and conditions."

    So your casino can void a player's winnings even he complies with all your terms? :eek:
     
  2. Jun 9, 2006
  3. alphagirl

    alphagirl Dormant account

    Occupation:
    waitress
    Location:
    central ny

    I think that you will find these things in most casinos T&C. It's really a backdoor for these places. In the end, they will do whatever they want. However, most casinos don't really use this. Good casino's won't anyways. But, I don't think that you have to worry about VPL, you will be treated fairly.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 9, 2006
  5. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    I've seen this stated at more than one casino groups T&C. Anyone know who in the world determined this, or how?

    I know I've been having a horrible losing streak lately, rarely able to squeeze out even 2x wagering on my money, but even on a good day, it was quite rare that I could even come close to wagering 40x deposit! Am I the only one that's not 'average'? Never have been 'average'? And if a majority of players were unable to get anywhere near this 'average' 40x deposit in wagers, wouldn't that indicate something flaky in their software?

    Sheesh... nothing like making the player feel like a loser before they even play...
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 9, 2006
  7. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I have a feeling they were referring to Blackjack. This absolutely cannot be true with respect to slots.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 9, 2006
  9. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I have seen it all over in T&C's also and I also agree it is pure BS, actually worse - it is a LIE.

    I would say I wager 40*deposit in like 5% of my sessions at MOST and in those I stop right after 40* since this is the amount needed to clear most bonuses. You can only be able to wager that much in low risk low variance games like BJ. Even in VP you often bust before wagering are fullfilled. Playing slots (as I think a big majority of gamblers do) it is very hard not to bust before wagering 40*deposit.

    Have you found any Meister accredited casinos with this in their T&C?

    It should be easy to prove this wrong mathematically given bet-size/deposit-size for average players and the game they play (payout% and variance important parameters for this).

    Zoozie
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2006
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 9, 2006
  11. pacers31

    pacers31 Banned Used - Repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Marketing Rep
    Location:
    Californication
    I think bonuses need to pretty much be done away with. At 20X, 40X, 1 million X, they all are just a no risk way for the casino to get you in the "go for it" mode and deposit more money after you lose their "free money". I have rarely met a wager requirement anywhere, and when I have, it just turns into a giant hassle to get my money from any of them. If sites offer bonuses, they should maybe do it in a discretionary manner with no strings attached to regular players and depositors. Bonuses are just for the casino, not the player. I hardly ever accept them anymore. Along the same lines, I really didn't appreciate Challenge casino automatically "giving" me sign up bonuses that I didn't request. Of course they kindly "gave" me the wagering requirements that went along with it too!!!! End the come on bonuses people, I'll let you know if I want one!!!
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jun 9, 2006
  13. thechap

    thechap Banned User - multiple forum accounts - violation

    Occupation:
    not telling
    Location:
    sunny croxdale
    I often ask for bonuses to be removed, the casinos rarely have a problem with this.
     
  14. Jun 9, 2006
  15. bayleesprings

    bayleesprings Account closed - violation of <a href="http://www.

    Occupation:
    Office Candy
    Location:
    Under your bed
    "Sneaky" bonus...

    What kills me are the casinos that "sneak" the money in without you knowing and if you're on autospin you may not notice. Then you hit $$ and owe them an unreasonable amount. I will not play there if they pull this with me. I'll bust out and leave if they refuse to withdraw the bonus. If I had wanted the bonus, I would have requested it.

    How does everyone else handle this?
     
  16. Jun 10, 2006
  17. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    I wouldn't play anyplace that does that either.

    For the most part, the Microgaming sites with EZBonus are getting my repeat business. You have the bonus there if you want, but you can play any game and cash out winnings anytime also. No-hassle bonuses, what a concept!
     
  18. Jun 10, 2006
  19. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    If he's playing slots, the average player would bust out after wagering 20x.

    For most table games - 3 card poker, for example - the average is 40x.

    Only VP and BJ players would be likely to have any money left after wagering 40x.

    I have no idea what casinos are talking about when they say this. There's no such thing as a "no-risk" wager, in a casino.

    The reality is that a casino can keep your money, once you've deposited, whether they say it or not. So it's what they do that's most important, not what they say (although the fact that they DO say it is definitely something worth paying attention to.)


    Unfortunately, some casinos use bonuses not only as a marketing tool, but also as a way to ensure the player will lose.
     
  20. Jun 10, 2006
  21. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Pray tell, where do you get your figures from?

    Not that I disagree - but think about it. First of all, a casino cannot ensure that you will lose simply through a marketing ploy like this. And secondly, casinos aren't exactly in business to give away money now, are they?
     
  22. Jun 10, 2006
  23. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    I think what this is supposed to mean is that if you Double Up, you have only risked the original amount bet for that hand. For example:

    You start with $500
    You bet $5.00
    You win $5.00
    ----> So far you have wagered $5.00, have broken even, and you have the option to double up

    If you double up and lose on your first try, they do not consider you to have wagered another $5.00. If you double it 4 times and lose on your 5th try, your ending balance would still be $495.00.

    I agree that it is worded strangely, but I think this is their intent. The correctly worded statement would read as follows:
     
  24. Jun 10, 2006
  25. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    The house advantage on slots is ~5%. If you roll it over once, that means you lose (on average) 5% of your funds. If you roll it over twice, you lose 10%.

    If you roll it over 20 times (20*5%), you lose 100%.

    You can do the same thing on any game, once you know the HA.

    It depends on the ploy. For example, a non-cashable bonus, with a large wager-requirement, that excludes most everything but slots, will make it very hard for any player to cash any money out.

    No. They're in business to make as much money as they can.

    Nobody ever started a casino because he wanted to save the rainforests.
     
  26. Jun 10, 2006
  27. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    It's not that cut and dry, as each spin does not return precisely 95% (or whatever the statistically expected payout is) otherwise nobody would be playing slots. The variance is high enough that you could end up getting a 1.25x playthrough or a 50x (or higher) playthrough.

    If your luck is anything like mine, rest assured that you'll be getting the 1.25x playthrough.
    :lolup:
     
  28. Jun 10, 2006
  29. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    "No risk" in the casinos' interpretation includes things like betting red and black simultaneously in roulette, or player and banker in baccarat, which are in fact risky (= non-zero variance) bets. A genuine no risk (= zero variance) bet would be to cover all numbers in roulette with equal amounts.

    I would also like to see some statistics supporting the claim that the average player will wager 40x his bankroll in a single session.
     
    2 people like this.
  30. Jun 10, 2006
  31. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    Well, that's what buggy software, document requests, and confiscation clauses are for. :)

    Hopefully your luck will turn around. :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jun 10, 2006
  33. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I'm no roulette player GM, but aren't their 37 numbers and a pay of 36 - 1 on the numbers? Reminds me - why would people play American Roulette with a "0" and a "00" when you can play European with only a "0" ? Does it pay 37-1 ? :confused:
     
  34. Jun 10, 2006
  35. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I am sure Jackpot Factory will claim that playing their slotmachines will help save the rainforest. :)
     
  36. Jun 10, 2006
  37. Linus

    Linus Dormant account

    Occupation:
    asdf
    Location:
    TX
    If you cover all the numbers, you'll lose exactly 5.3% of your wager on every spin.

    I assume that's what you mean by zero variance, but I couldn't help but point it out -- because on a 20x or higher WR that guarantees you'll have nothing left when you try to cash out (= 0% chance).

    I cannot figure out why casinos don't want people playing Roulette. Given the HA, you'd think they'd be shoving them toward the wheel.

    If I ever got hold of a casino executive, that'd be the question that I'd ask him.

     
  38. Jun 10, 2006
  39. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    I'd ask him how he sleeps at night :cool:
     

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