Time to create a slot RTP index across the various casinos?

satchnz

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Apr 26, 2021
Location
Essex, UK
Hi,

With the ongoing talk about how online casinos are starting to adopt lower and lower RTP versions of slots, I was wondering if it were time to build some sort of RTP index to provide a quick reference of general RTP settings each casino adopts.

It could be as simple as choosing the most popular two or thee games (Book of Dead, Starburst, Dead or Alive etc…) from each of the top providers (10-15 providers maybe), and regularly checking at each casino to get the latest RTPs for the games in the index. The highest RTP available from the provider for each game can be used along with the RTPs set by each casino to come up with some sort of ranking. The casinos with the highest rankings would be the ones offering the highest RTPs and would be a factor for players in deciding where to play.

I realise this would take a bit of work to set up and maintain, but perhaps it could be a collaborative effort.

I’m also certain that others will have some great ideas to add, assuming people feel this would be a valuable resource.
 

alcatraz

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Germany
I think that every versed player is doing that anyways. What i would recommend is to provide sticky posts in here and make the new players aware of such facts like RTP (why its important, where to find etc.) A database which contains RTP information requires manpower each and everyday.

A general easy to find (entry) post with all this info about "how to..." would do the job better imo. Not a bad idea at all. Thought about this before long time too but its a constant required thing to fiddle around with such stuff.
 

orion

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Better still, add it to the accredited casino pages on this site and deduct points for any lowered RTPs.
yeah good idea, but it could become a bit messy for the admins.

the same casino, or group of casinos, can have different TRTPs on different markets.
For istance the same game can have 94% in UK and 84% in Italy, and a third different % on a third market, but its the same casino.

This is already happening.

in such a scenario, or we decide that the accredited list is valid only for a market (UK), or it would be impossible to follow up all the situations on all the markets.
 

anddi32

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Location
Finland
yeah good idea, but it could become a bit messy for the admins.

the same casino, or group of casinos, can have different TRTPs on different markets.
For istance the same game can have 94% in UK and 84% in Italy, and a third different % on a third market, but its the same casino.
Yes that's the problem. a Little while ago i made some big work and collected pretty comprehensive list from MGA / estonian casinos who still offer default RTP's and no lowered RTP's found.

But that listing is only for finnish customers. Because I cannot guarantee that the returns are the same you play from another country or under a different license than MGA or estonian.
 
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Casinomeister

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I think the only effective way to do this is to have the casinos publish the RTPs onsite or better yet, within the help file of the game. With the massive RTP differences between jurisdictions, software providers, and casinos, it would be a daunting and everchanging task. It needs to be as accurate as possible.

What we can do here is to continue to educate the player on RTP and how it affects you. We do this by keeping this topic fresh and newsworthy in our podcasts, threads in the forum, and via articles etc.
 

dunover

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I looked into this task and it's almost impossible. You have over 100 different countries who can access online gambling, varying Gaming Licence parameters across jurisdictions, the same casino can offer different RTP models to different markets and the big range of RTP settings offered by developers such as Play'n Go. Some markets don't force the casino to even list RTP in the game sheets which of course they then won't do if they are on a crap figure. So the permutations are endless and the accuracy of such a project would be quite low.

The only way this could be done is that if every casino in every market was obliged via regulation to have a geo-link for all game RTPs that could be accessed by the casual visitor, rather than that person having to sign up to actually see them.
Even then, as we saw with Coral and others, 'mistakes' can be made....:rolleyes:

P.S. As I said in the RTP podcast with Bryan, the bitter irony here is that the game plagiarists and their fake slot catalogues at scam/unlicensed casinos are likely to have been made when the top 'factory' RTP was all that they could access. So for that reason, plus the fact they don't pay taxes, audit fees, legit developer fees and most importantly the fact paying the player for them is simply voluntary, they usually do offer the highest RTPs. What a shit state of affairs.
 
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tazmart

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Mar 21, 2019
Location
Broadstairs
I haven't been on this forum for months, but having noticed just how badly the slots are playing almost everywhere I play I thought I'd pop on and see what's happening.
Now I know, although I'd be very surprised if most of the games I have been playing for years, that are now playing worse than I can ever remember them playing, are at anywhere near 92%. It's dreadful. Just played two of the worst games of Jumanji I've ever experienced at Sky Vegas, followed by probably the worse game of The Goonies ever. Goodbye Sky Vegas.
Broadway sites, like Butlers Bingo, have dramatically dropped their RTPs, certainly in the last 4 months, with games like Dragon Shard almost overnight turning into big money losers. Avoid them at all costs.
Where are the Gambling Commission?????
You can no longer trust any casino or online slot, everything, everywhere, in my experience seem to be using low RTP versions, and that is borne out by my stats over the last 5 years. Consistent wins until around 4 or 5 months ago, then the same games and casinos show a dramatic drop in wins, appalling free spin rounds, massive increase in dead and losing spin percentages and all the games are basically playing exactly the same way to the point of being predictable, but unfortunately predictably bad.
Why don't we just stop playing them until they stop cheating us and lying about their RTPs? Hitting their bottom line is the only way they'll ever make the games fairer again.
 

bamberfishcake

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Location
Essex
Problem is that the young bloods coming into playing at online casinos know no different.

I think one possible course of action would be for people to pick a certain day, maybe once a month, where all in the know snub the variable providers.

Agree it's a mammoth task to keep track but not impossible. Already one poster seems to have Finland covered and I can find time to list a fair few groups who offer the same RTP values across all jurisdictions.

Most of these casinos are not one-man bands but part of a bigger group, e.g. Casinos across the Softswiss platform offer the same RTPs. Most of WHG do the same, along with N1 Interactive. Those three groups alone cover 100s of online casinos that for the most part have the same RTP values governed by the platform.

Not as daunting as you might think for a few players in the know.
 

KasinoKing

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Hard to believe that as recently as last year I was happily playing loads of slots I loved and enjoying the occasional great wins...
But now I can't even remember the last time I had even a half-decent win, and it seems like every game I play is just sucking my money up like a hoover :(

These RTP cuts have pretty much killed online casino slotting for me - time to look for a new pass-time I guess...

KK
 

dec2008mcl

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Hard to believe that as recently as last year I was happily playing loads of slots I loved and enjoying the occasional great wins...
But now I can't even remember the last time I had even a half-decent win, and it seems like every game I play is just sucking my money up like a hoover :(

These RTP cuts have pretty much killed online casino slotting for me - time to look for a new pass-time I guess...

KK
But could these cuts in rtp have such an effect on everyone, the general consensus is they return fuck all. Im at the stage where I think rtp plays no part at all. You can actually tell these past few months it's just about gradually reducing your balance to 0. Done about 500 at casino past week/10 days, asked for a bonus.. Chat said they'd request it to the responsible gambling team, woke up to 10 questions about am I happy/ in control of my play. I'm not happy about them being in control of the returns. Kunts. Rant over
 

tazmart

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In a way it's a relief that it's not just me seeing this spiralling trend downwards, but for new players it won't take too long before they decide online slots are money grabbers and many will stop playing. Those of us who have been playing for a long time will have to find a way around it or also stop, and once the casinos start seeing a mass exodus, especially if we continue to warn everyone wherever we can about the fraud being committed by casinos and developers alike, we could start hurting them.
In the meantime we should all start hitting the Gambling Commission with complaints and requests to do something about it, otherwise the industry will have to collapse once word of mouth gets going.
At this moment in time I say good riddance.
 

dec2008mcl

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In a way it's a relief that it's not just me seeing this spiralling trend downwards, but for new players it won't take too long before they decide online slots are money grabbers and many will stop playing. Those of us who have been playing for a long time will have to find a way around it or also stop, and once the casinos start seeing a mass exodus, especially if we continue to warn everyone wherever we can about the fraud being committed by casinos and developers alike, we could start hurting them.
In the meantime we should all start hitting the Gambling Commission with complaints and requests to do something about it, otherwise the industry will have to collapse once word of mouth gets going.
At this moment in time I say good riddance.
The ukgc is well paid for with brown envelopes. Casinos could be just saying fuck it and raking it in before the new legislation and gambling ombudsman comes in to play.
 

Slottery

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Wouldn't it be win-win situation if casinos and developers would be greedy enough and start to make slots nobody plays? Everyone would save money to spend something else (probably most people probably can find some other ways to spend their money and time) and if one day slots don't exist anymore, there would be significantly fewer problem gamblers as well.

Don't think there are many who play slots profitable for long term even would only play some exceptional high RTP:s (which really is not alone telling much, you can have much bigger chance to make cashout from some lower RTP game than higher, there are quite many other numbers as well which are at least much relevant as RTP, depending what type of games you wanna play).
 

Kroffe

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The ukgc is well paid for with brown envelopes. Casinos could be just saying fuck it and raking it in before the new legislation and gambling ombudsman comes in to play.
Huh, did not know ombudsman was the word used in English. (its a Swedish word as far as i know)
Move over Smorgasbord, theres a new loanword in town.
:laugh:
 

dec2008mcl

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Huh, did not know ombudsman was the word used in English. (its a Swedish word as far as i know)
Move over Smorgasbord, theres a new loanword in town.
:laugh:
Ya it's a Swedish word, used here across many sectors. Meant to be independent investigative body, some already involved in the gambling industry have put themselves forward for it but that going down like a lead balloon.
 

bamberfishcake

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you can have much bigger chance to make cashout from some lower RTP game than higher

Agreed for the most part unless you consider variable RTPs - lower RTP version of the same slot does not give a better chance of a cash-out.

I think the con that everybody is talking about is the lower versions of the same slot.

I also don't think that it's a win-win situation for everyone - hypothetically, you could have a player who has played Play'n GO for the last 5 years, knows nothing about the fact that one Book of Dead pays 92% against the other they have been playing for years at 96%. Think of the repercussions for a moment.

I believe variable versions are irresponsible and dangerous.

This player could be wondering why his/her deposits are not lasting as quick as they could and will not find an obvious answer.

Variable slot developers know exactly what they are doing, otherwise, they would be loud and proud in these threads defending themselves.

There is no defence or argument for variable RTPs of the same slot. They are made to con more money out of unsuspecting customers.
 

Slottery

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Agreed for the most part unless you consider variable RTPs - lower RTP version of the same slot does not give a better chance of a cash-out.

I think the con that everybody is talking about is the lower versions of the same slot.

I also don't think that it's a win-win situation for everyone - hypothetically, you could have a player who has played Play'n GO for the last 5 years, knows nothing about the fact that one Book of Dead pays 92% against the other they have been playing for years at 96%. Think of the repercussions for a moment.

I believe variable versions are irresponsible and dangerous.

This player could be wondering why his/her deposits are not lasting as quick as they could and will not find an obvious answer.

Variable slot developers know exactly what they are doing, otherwise, they would be loud and proud in these threads defending themselves.

There is no defence or argument for variable RTPs of the same slot. They are made to con more money out of unsuspecting customers.

Fully agreed, really lazy and unfair way, wouldn't be so hard just to make whole new games if need lower RTP:s, then those who could also offer "good old original games" would only have them and who don't want to provide them, could just remove them.
 
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