Time To Ban The Feature Buy!

[snorky510238]

I've hit it once. But that was over 4 years ago.
You would expect to see it more often though, considering it only pays 166x stake

View attachment 96817

Pretty damn rare then.

 

[Balthazar]

...

 

[brianmon]

With a lot of players, apparently, wanting instant results theses days, rather than actually playing the games.

Casinos should maybe start doing 'Buy a Session'
Whereby you deposit £100, and then click on the appropriate buttons to select a game and a stake amount.

A message then instantly appears saying ......

"You lost your deposit in 1.5 virtual hours"
or "You made a profit of £50 after 1000 virtual spins."
Etc.....

 

[trancemonkey]

And one last thing. Just few recent things that happened

- slots being released with imaginary unlimited potential - not a big deal if you cant win more than xx even if there is no max win stated, and reels allow for basically unlimited win multiplier, because. idk what was the reason why its not important anymore tbh. We even have people saying its not even remotely similar to false advertising because. Because its slots so its cool.

- casinos being able to chose RTP for slots with help file not containing true RTP (or rtp at all), for playngo slots. Unlike UKGC casinos, casinos that cover the rest of the world still can get away with it. But hey its not a big deal. Now we found another provider offers different rpt settings, but we are not sure if casinos are showing current or default RTP, or whats the default rtp to begin with.

- not one, but 3 providers were providing fake versions of their slots via fun play. Thats 3 i know about. Who the ef knows how many were there anymore. Amatic, Wazdan and GameArt. Wazdan and gameart humbly agreed to change it, and release a big press conference saying "oops". Amatic still does it. Not a big deal.

thats just off top of my head and afaik, not once were any fines, fees, whatevers even mentioned. Hell nobody even said even "bad bad casinos/developers shame on you". Its like it never happened

and thats just the recent stuff, and none of it includes players being scammed by random (non ukgc) casinos on daily basis and thats something that has, sadly become a completely normal and accepted thing among slot players.

Im not getting into playtech or betfair issues that were pretty huge but ultimately ended up being "resolved" because casinos showed some "good will". Thats what this market has lead us to, being dependent on casinos/providers good will to solve things.

Thats why i said its such a badly regulated market, and its not necessarily related to RTP.

Its a combination of the little things that should be visible to players at all times, but are not because apparently transparency is so 90's. If we also add shady things 100's of random casinos are doing on daily basis, and slot developers being able to get away with just about anything simply by fixing it whenever someone figures out something is wrong, without any danger of being fined... thats what makes me, for one not willing to blindly trust this market as a whole.

edit: Mind you i double checked your answers and i couldnt find anything about vikings slots which are, or are not compensated? Im not an expert, but i play slots. And vikings go berzerk definitely doesnt fit that "On the press of the start button every win has to be achievable in every base game spin." rule, right? If vikings go missing, they are not achievable. So how was it allowed to pass whatever checks ...checking companies do?

maybe you did answer it but i really missed it and im not trying to be annoying or anything. But i do want to learn more about slots and how does all this work, and if it wasnt for you half of the stuff would still be locked somewhere in CIA confidental files, so even if sometimes i dont agree with you, thank you for all youve done and i really mean it

Come to the Meister meet in Feb and say hi... We can chat in London if you're around... Or DM me if you want to chat more. We should avoid hijacking this thread

 

[mack341]

Games are copied but unless they have acquired the maths from somewhere (illegally or through licencing) then they will have had to come up with the maths themselves. Therefore it is not a copy in anything other than mechanics.

Also you can't copyright the look and feel of a game or a fame desigsn sothat's a non-starter. You can even patent original game designs in Europe although you can in the US.

Also please explain to be how 3c(iv) has anything to do with responsible gambling... Being that responsible gambling is mainly bout making sure people don't spend more than they can afford.

In my opinion Responsible gambling will be increased, rather than decreased, through having informed consumers which includes knowing the likelihood of losing and winning and not just an rtp figure based on playing through millions of spins.

'INFORMED CHOICE AND GAMBLING: PRINCIPLES FOR CONSUMER PROTECTION' Alex Blaszczynski et al 2008 The Journal of Gambling Business and Economics:

"It is well-established that problem gambling results, in part, from erroneous perceptions about the probability of winning. While individuals retain the ultimate responsibility over gambling choices and level of participation, optimal decision-making depends, among other factors, on the availability of reliable, comprehensive information."

...the industry must provide all relevant, pertinent and available information in a timely manner. Individuals will process and use this information to decide if they want to gamble or not. If they decide to gamble, they can use the information to assist in establishing their gambling limits

IIRC you did say yourself in another thread that the win odds are sometimes displayed on physical machines in some venues?

 

[trancemonkey]

In my opinion Responsible gambling will be increased, rather than decreased, through having informed consumers which includes knowing the likelihood of losing and winning and not just an rtp figure based on playing through millions of spins.

'INFORMED CHOICE AND GAMBLING: PRINCIPLES FOR CONSUMER PROTECTION' Alex Blaszczynski et al 2008 The Journal of Gambling Business and Economics:

"It is well-established that problem gambling results, in part, from erroneous perceptions about the probability of winning. While individuals retain the ultimate responsibility over gambling choices and level of participation, optimal decision-making depends, among other factors, on the availability of reliable, comprehensive information."

...the industry must provide all relevant, pertinent and available information in a timely manner. Individuals will process and use this information to decide if they want to gamble or not. If they decide to gamble, they can use the information to assist in establishing their gambling limits

IIRC you did say yourself in another thread that the win odds are sometimes displayed on physical machines in some venues?

In Singapore the jackpot chances are shown yes...

 

[SlotGrinder]

With a lot of players, apparently, wanting instant results theses days, rather than actually playing the games.

Casinos should maybe start doing 'Buy a Session'
Whereby you deposit £100, and then click on the appropriate buttons to select a game and a stake amount.

A message then instantly appears saying ......

"You lost your deposit in 1.5 virtual hours"
or "You made a profit of £50 after 1000 virtual spins."
Etc.....

Have you not seen Blitz spins ? Think its on casino heroes available on some netent games . Basically does what you say - shows results for 100 autospins without bothering to show the actual spins . It's not instant but its pretty damn fast

 

[TheAddict]

The people reading this who buy scratchcards and scan them before bothering to scratch are probably rubbing their hands in glee

 

[trancemonkey]

Have you not seen Blitz spins ? Think its on casino heroes available on some netent games . Basically does what you say - shows results for 100 autospins without bothering to show the actual spins . It's not instant but its pretty damn fast

Not seen them at all... I'll have a look in to them

EDIT: Found this...

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So remind me what the point is of playing a slot machine? Are there honestly players that done even want to see the outcome of ANY spins and literally just want to play it as if it were a scratchcard?...

I'm all for innovation but again this just looks like the exact opposite of RG...

Luckily in most jurisdictions there is a minimum game time so this won't affect those... But honestly I think this is a dangerous step for players. But I can absolutely see why games providers and casinos would want to do it... More money. Faster.

 

[TheAddict]

"Behind Blitz is a complex technical solution that meets the needs of today’s gamers – it should be easy and fast while the pleasure factor is high"

Thats a bold statement when suggesting s**rburst is one of the few games its available on.

 

[JGslots]

@trancemonkey
Sorry, can I just ask...

This graphic that exists on 88 Fortunes. The pot that seems to fill up on the top screen as you get more of the wild symbols the actual graphic changes and the pot becomes more full.

I felt that this is misleading as it almost suggests the progressive pot feature is ‘due’ there’s a ‘max pot’ graphic which is displayed which won’t update, again I’ve had this graphic stay on the screen for 2 hours+ before it triggered the pots bonus.

Is it against compliance in the UK as its really naughty to suggest to the player that the pot is getting full and the feature is ‘due’ by the pot graphic looking more and more full.

Any thoughts?

Rob

 

[Harry_BKK]

In Singapore the jackpot chances are shown yes...

The same goes for the pokies in Australia. There is a message on every machine displaying the odds to hit the top win on it.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Not seen them at all... I'll have a look in to them

EDIT: Found this...

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So remind me what the point is of playing a slot machine? Are there honestly players that done even want to see the outcome of ANY spins and literally just want to play it as if it were a scratchcard?...

I'm all for innovation but again this just looks like the exact opposite of RG...

Luckily in most jurisdictions there is a minimum game time so this won't affect those... But honestly I think this is a dangerous step for players. But I can absolutely see why games providers and casinos would want to do it... More money. Faster.

Have you not seen Blitz spins ? Think its on casino heroes available on some netent games . Basically does what you say - shows results for 100 autospins without bothering to show the actual spins . It's not instant but its pretty damn fast

I thought a few times about posting this. It is blatantly neglecting RG. You can now lose your money up to 6x faster and I am sure plenty of problem gamblers will, since the need for the adrenalin kick is increasing the more addicted they get.

 

[Lemon]

Should playing 4 games at the same time on Videoslots be banned as well? How about opening 6 different online casinos in separate tabs and playing 6 games at once?

Buy the feature is there for people who wish to avail themselves of it. If I've only got 10 minutes to spare I might prefer to buy a quick feature or two rather than play 300 spins without getting one. You don't have to use it if you don't want to, and if you're unable to resist the temptation of using it then you shouldn't be gambling.

I think there's an argument to be had about whether or not the feature you buy needs to be identical to the one that you get when you trigger it normally (as clearly some of them aren't), but that's for another day

 

[BosjeR]

You know what a provider should do? Come up with a loyalty currency that players can earn through an achievements engine which allows them to 'feature buy', then you can't spend your own money, and it's a loyalty/cash back thing where you get to play the feature.

Yeah, that would be cool. And maybe this provider should do this in 2012. Imagine that.

 

[Harry_BKK]

You know what a provider should do? Come up with a loyalty currency that players can earn through an achievements engine which allows them to 'feature buy', then you can't spend your own money, and it's a loyalty/cash back thing where you get to play the feature.

Yeah, that would be cool. And maybe this provider should do this in 2012. Imagine that.

Quickspin offers that but it is up to the casino operators to have it active for their players:

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Thrills used to have promotions where you would get a spin that takes you straight to a bonus round on a Quickspin slot at a selected bet value.

 

[Lemon]

You know what a provider should do? Come up with a loyalty currency that players can earn through an achievements engine which allows them to 'feature buy', then you can't spend your own money, and it's a loyalty/cash back thing where you get to play the feature.

Yeah, that would be cool. And maybe this provider should do this in 2012. Imagine that.

Hey lads, check out Barry Quickspin over here...

 

[shadow123]

Personally i have no problem with buying features, on the bad games you just dont do it,
but on games like chilli its a matter of staying grounded and dont try and chase losing features
The one game I really object to is the rainbow riches where you buy a feature via a pie spin,
the leprochauns do not pay anywhere near the returns compared to those achieved in the normal
play.It is an absolute con and disgrace and should not be allowed.
The one game I would be quite happy to see a bonus buy on would be bonanza as I will not buy
and gamble a feature, as in chilli,its something I just cannot do.
Genie it a pile pile of shite on buys, buffallo buys can give some suprizingly good wins if you are patient.

 

[trancemonkey]

@trancemonkey
Sorry, can I just ask...

This graphic that exists on 88 Fortunes. The pot that seems to fill up on the top screen as you get more of the wild symbols the actual graphic changes and the pot becomes more full.

I felt that this is misleading as it almost suggests the progressive pot feature is ‘due’ there’s a ‘max pot’ graphic which is displayed which won’t update, again I’ve had this graphic stay on the screen for 2 hours+ before it triggered the pots bonus.

Is it against compliance in the UK as its really naughty to suggest to the player that the pot is getting full and the feature is ‘due’ by the pot graphic looking more and more full.

Any thoughts?

Rob

It's common on many many games now. It is a technique that shows the player "how long since last progressive". It's not against compliance as it isn't telling you a win is due soon... Just that it's been a while since it was last won...

 

[Nate]

I agree wholly that the feature buy (with the gamble option) should be outlawed by the respective bodies.

BTG have no morals or limits as to how far they will go. They allow feature buys up to 2k at a time, yet cap their maximum bets to 20 Euros. They encourage you to gamble your buy ('Optimal strategy') and this ends up being a disaster for many players. In the long run it may be optimal, but who on earn has an unlimited bankroll?

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of excluded players are high as a direct result of a game like extra chilli. I myself stopped playing their games a long time ago. IMPO they are more Big Time Bullshit than BTG.... I feel their games are highly compensated.... but thats just my personal opinion.

Their CEO was shady the minute he walked through the door here, already trying to deceive the forum and trying to win his own competition with fake screenshots. I lost my respect for him then and there.

Then to come out and claim they are all for 'Responsible Gambling' by limiting your spins to 100 at a time, but in the same vein introducing unlimited Feature Buys and gambles on your purchases.... Yeah right - they are more concerned that you may play 200 spins on autoplay than the fact that you need to pay 100x your bet a go....

Honestly total and utter bullshit. The industry needs to be brought in line to curb providers like this. They will end up destroying a large player base and encouraging irresponsible play with the mechanics they use.

Nate

 

[SlotGrinder]

It's common on many many games now. It is a technique that shows the player "how long since last progressive". It's not against compliance as it isn't telling you a win is due soon... Just that it's been a while since it was last won...

Encouraging the gambler's fallacy ? How come that is allowed like casinos labelling slots as "hot" and roulette games showing past numbers as if it has any effect on the outcome of the next spin I guess it's player demand as much as anything in the case of roulette but casinos definitely don't do anything to dissuade players from thinking that they can somehow use skill to overcome the odds. Even picking games in slots pretending if you pick well you will get the big prizes..

 

[eizei]

Personally I really like the btg feature buys and blueprint bonus gambles. I rarely buy bonuses (mostly if I complete a wager and have a nice balance I might buy a couple to reach an even number on my balance) but I really like the option to be there and I sincerely hope they won't be removed because some players are not in control of their gambling. In any of those games you can play the base game perfectly fine and I feel if all it takes for you to tilt and lose too much money is the ability to do so quickly with buying bonuses you should take a break or stop gambling. My solution would be something like maybe casinos could be regulated to have an option to disable buying bonuses on an account or have a setting for maximum bet allowed for one round that you could use if you feel you can't not buy bonuses.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Should get rid of the feature buys and go back to more sensible average spins for a feature to drop in. Nowadays it seems that slotplayers find it normal it takes 2-3-400 spins for a bonus to arrive even on low and medium variance slots, that's simply not acceptable.