ThisIsVegas changing withdrawal limits without notice

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
I was playing at TiV doing well and went to withdraw. When I tried I noticed I couldn't withdraw more than $100 and after a few mails to support it became clear they had decided to limit my withdrawals to $500/day and $1000/week.

Is it just me or is this close to rogueish to limit my withdrawals to less than what I have in my account? They also refuse to give any reason to why. I have cashed in several times there and sent in documents. Feels like they thought I had won too much and wanted to try to keep my money in there to lose it. I did get it all out now but wanted to warn others of their behaviour.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is most certainly wrong. The TIV rep has been active here, and has undergone severe criticism for a $2000 per week limit. What support say does not fit the facts, as if the limit was $500 per day, why didn't a request for between $101 and $500 go through.

Since documents have been sent in, verified, and the account remains open, this can have nothing whatsoever to do with "fraud issues". Cashflow springs to mind though, which was the reason for Rival having RTG style withdrawal limits.

For low rollers, these limits would not really cause problems, but mid to high rollers should stay clear of Rival until this is sorted out.

In the first instance, send a PM to the TIV rep, and secondly, do not play with bets of a size that could lead to you having a balance in excess of $1000.

It is certainly rogue behaviour to land this on a player after the fact, especially whan it appears to be a TARGETED action against a specific player, and with CS playing the "fraud risk - can't give you any information" card.

ANY player could equally find themselves in this situation, since policy seems to offer no reason as to why, so players have no way of working out if their actions could lead to this, and they only find out when they have a big balance and find they have been set to an impossibly low withdrawal limit when they try to get their winnings.

RIVAL should understand that this kind of story raises a big red WARNING flag over the entire operation. The biggest worry is cashflow, and this is NOT the first time Rival casinos have come under fire for "slow pay" problems, and what seems to be stalling tactics.
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
I don't think it's cashflow really, I did get paid within 12 hours once I was able to actually submit my withdrawal.

I did notice I had no promotions showing in the cashier, maybe they banned me from getting bonuses for winning to much on slots and for some reason that involves reduced withdrawal limits? Makes no sense to me but can't think of any other reason for them to do this.

Oh, and to clear up since it was unclear in my first post: The reason I could only withdraw $100 was because I had a pending withdrawal of $400 already.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I don't think it's cashflow really, I did get paid within 12 hours once I was able to actually submit my withdrawal.

I did notice I had no promotions showing in the cashier, maybe they banned me from getting bonuses for winning to much on slots and for some reason that involves reduced withdrawal limits? Makes no sense to me but can't think of any other reason for them to do this.

Ha Ha, VERY Funny TIV - I though SLOTS were random, and had no element of skill whatsoever:rolleyes:.

Reducing withdrawal limits as a "sour grapes" response to a player who has "won too much" is the preserve of the ROGUE casino, and we had better get a better explanation, and soon.

IF a player is removed from the bonusing list, then just don't offer them more boni (as seems to have happened as well), do NOT mess them around by reducing withdrawal limits for money they have already won. IF they are under investigation, do NOT let them deposit & play some more, and then use stalling tactics to persuade them to lose back their winnings rather than withdraw them straight away.
 

Rhyzz

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
United Kingdom
Ha Ha, VERY Funny TIV - I though SLOTS were random, and had no element of skill whatsoever:rolleyes:.

Reducing withdrawal limits as a "sour grapes" response to a player who has "won too much" is the preserve of the ROGUE casino, and we had better get a better explanation, and soon.

IF a player is removed from the bonusing list, then just don't offer them more boni (as seems to have happened as well), do NOT mess them around by reducing withdrawal limits for money they have already won. IF they are under investigation, do NOT let them deposit & play some more, and then use stalling tactics to persuade them to lose back their winnings rather than withdraw them straight away.


Don't you think you're jumping to conclusions a little here? Like I've already said, withdrawal limits have to be in place for these companies, although $1,000 a week is a bit low. Who knows why his limits have been reduced, I'm sure John will give him a straight answer either way
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Don't you think you're jumping to conclusions a little here? Like I've already said, withdrawal limits have to be in place for these companies, although $1,000 a week is a bit low. Who knows why his limits have been reduced, I'm sure John will give him a straight answer either way

Quite, but they seem to be targeting this player unfairly with unduly low limits, yet refuse to explain why. Withdrawal limits as policy should apply EQUALLY to all players, and should be specified in the terms.

TIV have specified limits in their terms, and it is THESE limits that should be applied in this case, not some arbitrary lower limit, and "after the fact" too.

In conjunction with low withdrawal limits, similarly low DEPOSIT limits should operate in order to prevent players from depositing so much that it takes weeks to merely get their DEPOSIT back.

I await a PROPER explanation from the rep, and the CS need to be rapped over the knuckles for being so slippery about explaining things to the player BEFORE this went public in the forum. The refusal of CS to offer a clear explanation only fuels the "conspiracy theory" idea, rather than a more logical explanation related to processing limitations for the chosen withdrawal method, or similar factors.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
I happened to have my account at Slotocash bonus blocked not to long ago. Now mind you, I haven't cashed out since June. Said my account showed something strange. I have had an account with them since they first came into business. Had to go round and round them and finally they came to their senses. Turns out they had made a mistake (DUH!).

And I personally do know of someone who got bonus blocked for winning too much.

I had all my accounts closed except Slotocash when all the payout problems were happening so I can't say anything about TIV from my personal knowledge.
 

Rhyzz

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
United Kingdom
And I personally do know of someone who got bonus blocked for winning too much.


This is fair enough, it's a business at the end of the day and they have a business logic to earn a profit. Refusing someone a withdrawal because of limits is a totally different matter though, and VWM is correct in saying that CS should be able to provide an explanation.
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
Agreed, can't really complain about them not offering me bonuses anymore even if I think it's a bad decision as it means I'll just go somewhere else to play. I think what set it off was using a reverse withdrawal as a deposit to claim a bonus, guess they rather pay processing fees for making a new deposit instead.

But this isn't about bonuses, that's completely up to the casino to decide. There is however nothing in their terms of use about lowering withdrawal limits for any reason, only the line about a $2000/week limit.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
I have found that the Rival CS has completely lost it. When you go into live chat at a casino and they have to ask you which casino you are talking about makes me wonder just how much help they can be. All of the Rivals have the same CS thru live help. I have talked to the same person through three different live chat windows at three different Rivals almost within minutes of each other and not the ones owned by the same company.

They use to be good when each casino had their own chat but now no. They can tell you stuff they can look up on your account but anything else they have to send to the "relevant department".
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Absolutely amazing !! Just when I thought it was safe to go back to TIV and play too...damn, and it appears that John has not even been on this board since Aug. 25th Last Activity: 25th August 2008 01:52 PM :what:
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
I did email the TiV manager about this. Seems my account has been flagged for bonus abuse. He says that it is for just making the wagering requirements and cashing out but since this is simply not true it has to be because of the reverse withdrawal to claim a bonus.

And the reason for reduced withdrawal limits? 'When a player has been flagged by the system for anything their limits are reduced.'
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
this is simply not true it has to be because of the reverse withdrawal to claim a bonus.

Didn't someone just post this "bug" earlier this week?

Why should a player be penalized for something they thought was ok to do? There's no rule against it....
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
Yes, I had no idea it worked that way until I read about it here a bit over a week ago. Used the same thing at Simon Says and surprise, no more bonuses there either. Haven't used it at any other Rival casino, and of course I can claim bonuses at all of them since I most certainly don't try to abuse bonuses and keep playing well over wagering requirements on slots when I'm winning.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Yes, I had no idea it worked that way until I read about it here a bit over a week ago. Used the same thing at Simon Says and surprise, no more bonuses there either. Haven't used it at any other Rival casino, and of course I can claim bonuses at all of them since I most certainly don't try to abuse bonuses and keep playing well over wagering requirements on slots when I'm winning.

We are getting beyond coincidence then, this seems a systematic response to players who have "discovered" this bug in the software, yet rather than making it clear to players that this is NOT how things should work, and that the bug is NOT to be exploited, they prefer to remain quiet, and jump on players who use this bug after the fact. Reducing limits simply because a player is deemed "too clever" to be allowed further bonuses is not on, and is rogue behaviour. The player should be free to make the choice to cease playing at the casino due to the adverse change in terms on their account.

Having the SAME CS rep at THREE different casinos within minutes of each other, and then for them to have to ASK which casino you are playing at, and for them to be able to access details at ALL Rival casinos certainly does NOT look like these are "independent operations", something that began to come to light when players bonus banned at one "independent" Rival suddenly found their accounts at OTHER Rivals "flagged". We were then told that there was a central database for "bonus abusers" that was shared between all Rivals, but now it seems that a whole lot more is shared between them, perhaps even ownership? (Don't they ALL show the same parent company as beneficial owners anyway?).

This is a downhill trend, there are now TOO MANY RIVAL CASINOS, and they have lost their sense of individuality, and thus the main point of their existence as separate entities.
I have to wonder whether they were EVER really separate entities, but rather a form of "white labelling" for the Rival brand, gathering many more customers by using the window dressing of different portals for essentially the same underlying casino. I even noticed that some of the reps here looked after more than one of these "portals" at one time or another, and rule changes seemed to be applied in unison, not something seen where independent casinos simply share a common software platoform. Just look at MG, with all the different sets of rules for what is essentially the same product.
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
Strangely enough I can still claim bonus at every other Rival casino except where I used reverse withdrawal to deposit to claim a bonus so if they do have a central list they aren't really using it, at least not in this case.

But this isn't about bonuses either, while I think that part is stupid from their side I can't complain about not getting bonuses.

Limiting withdrawals without giving any notice and while my account balance+pending withdrawals was at a point where it would take me 2 weeks to withdraw all my money is the problem. I did lose a bunch while clearing WR and managed to get everything withdrawn but they didn't know that when they changed the limits.
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
Old thread but since John is being more active on forums lately maybe I could finally get an answer?
 

mistye81

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Kansas
I am just curious, Is it OK to claim a promotion using a reversed withdrawal, I did today and ended up winning, but like mentioned above could only withdrawal $500 a day. I am not worried about the rest right now, just want to make sure I will be paid the $500? :confused: Thanks.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I am just curious, Is it OK to claim a promotion using a reversed withdrawal, I did today and ended up winning, but like mentioned above could only withdrawal $500 a day. I am not worried about the rest right now, just want to make sure I will be paid the $500? :confused: Thanks.

Generally, NO. Assume this is NOT allowed unless told otherwise. This applies in general, not just Rival.

Some casinos may make a specific offer to you for reversing a withdrawal, but generally the offer is poor, and should normally be refused.
 

mistye81

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Kansas
So, does this give them a reason not to pay the $500? I guess I will find out soon enough, I am sure now I will be bonus banned, just hoping that I will still be able to cash out. I haven't seen any rules against doing this, and was allowed to claim the promotion while reversing the withdrawal. I honestly thought this was ok to do.

Has anyone else did this and got paid?

Thanks again.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I understand that any Rival casino can disallow the function of claiming bonuses with reversed withdrawals and recently this has been the case with Slotocash. If any Rival casino allows this, they should not be feeling that this is wrong since be reversing a withdrawal the player is actually re-depositing and they save on fees as well.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Hi All,

<derail>
I got a free $10 comp from SlotoCash yesterday. Went to play Cleopatra's Coins and it commences an update. This happens quite often with Rival slots & I'm stump as to why?

I log in today and the suite does another update. Frankly all these updates make me very nervous, especially when performed on slots that are not new. I can't see any cosmetic changes so I have to assume they're operational based or worse pay table tweaks and pay-out manipulations.

Has anyone got any reasonable idea as to why Rival Casinos do so many updates on their slots?
</derail>


Cheers
T
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
I understand that any Rival casino can disallow the function of claiming bonuses with reversed withdrawals and recently this has been the case with Slotocash. If any Rival casino allows this, they should not be feeling that this is wrong since be reversing a withdrawal the player is actually re-depositing and they save on fees as well.

You bring up a really valid point with this chuchu :thumbsup:

I've alway wondered why other casinos do not allow a player to claim a bonus on a reversal. The fact is that if the cash was not reversed it would be processed and sent to the player. At which point the player deposits and in then eligibly for the deposit bonus.

That all seems silly when all it's done is move the cash from point A to point C and the the player moves it back to point A.


Cheers
T
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I'm no longer playing Rivals due to their withdrawal from the Canadian market, but many casinos will not allow you to make a deposit while a withdrawal is pending or reversible.

Like Chuchu says, they will save on fees to allow us to claim a bonus offered rather than wait for it to hit the ewallet.

Plus, from the casino point of view, why not encourage rapid redeposits of funds? By any means? The whole point of bonus offers is to get players to deposit, most times at a rate that still favours the casino (any casino that does otherwise is silly), but perhaps slightly more friendly to the consumer than without one.

I've had times where a first cashout was awaiting verification, and I would have been happy to make a subsequent deposit, and by the time the money was paid, I'd played elsewhere.
 
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