This is getting out of hand

Renegade

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Internet gaming guide shut down in Washington state

A Washington state online gaming guide was shut down by its operator recently despite the fact no illegal wagers were being accepted by the site. According to officials, the website violated Senate Bill 6613, the new law passed in the state last month which made online gambling a felony and prohibits using the Internet to transmit gambling related information.

Tom Boutte, the Bellingham, Wash., man who ran the site, is a former Wal-Mart employee who launched IntegrityCasinoGuide.com as a casino review. The guide advised readers on the best Internet casinos via articles, links and advertisements.

Boutte didn't think his site was in violation of Senate Bill 6613 since no actual wagering was taking place. However, after reading an article in the Bellingham Herald where officials said IntegrityCasinoGuide.com was in fact illegal, Boutte shut his site down and is now attempting to find an out of state buyer to take it off his hands.

Users of the site will now find a "This Account Has Been Suspended" message written across the top of the screen after logging in, along with a prompt that urges players to "Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible."

Rick Day, the director of the state's gambling commission, said the content featured on Boutte's site assisted people in committing a felony because it provided guidance on where and how to gamble online through the use of promotional links and articles, which itself warrants a criminal charge according to the new law.

Similarly, publications containing regular "how-to" poker columns, such as The Seattle Times which features "Card Shark" by poker pro Daniel Negreanu, could fall victim to the new regulations if links or online gambling information is included in the article.

To avoid any unpleasant encounters with the law, Day suggests editors remove any advice or links relating to online gambling from the columns.

THIS IS BS!!!!
:mad:

These little hilter bastards are so worried about online gambling yet Porno and child porno is all over the internet and they could care less about it!!!!
:mad:

Please tell me I'm not alone here!!!!!!
 
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Tdoggy

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Mar 11, 2005
Location
USA
Got to agree

What a load of crap. The USA just keeps on taking rights away from people. Wasn't it bad enough when it all started with credit cards being declined at casinos and sportsbooks. Then paypal jumped on the band wagon and declared no "Gambling transactions" for the USA!!! And now this crap....What is the world coming to... You are borrowing money to pay for items from your credit card and when the bill comes you pay it. But no gambling!! lol God for bid you want to place a bet or place a wager at an online casino!!! The Credit card company is telling you what you can and can not spend your money on. What a crock!!! This is getting out of hand...

p.s. Did i just read an e-mail from Intercasino that says Congress is trying to ban online poker now???? Good Lord!!! :eek: :mad:

Internet Porn and child porn are way out of hand, I totally agree. Any 5 year old kid these days can sit at a computer and access some kind of internet porn in a matter of seconds these days...Very SAD!!

Anybody see the specials on t.v. these days with the under cover people busting these online Pervs showing up at the "setup" house expecting to have sex with minors...Horrible.:eek:
 

Renegade

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USA
Anybody see the specials on t.v. these days with the under cover people busting these online Pervs showing up at the "setup" house expecting to have sex with minors...Horrible.:eek:

That is on the evening news!!

Rick Day, the director of the state's gambling commission, said the content featured on Boutte's site assisted people in committing a felony because it provided guidance on where and how to gamble online through the use of promotional links and articles, which itself warrants a criminal charge according to the new law.

Similarly, publications containing regular "how-to" poker columns, such as The Seattle Times which features "Card Shark" by poker pro Daniel Negreanu, could fall victim to the new regulations if links or online gambling information is included in the article.

So it's safe to assume by the quote above that public Libraries will be violating the law if they have gambling books!!
Poker Magazines are against the law according to the above.
And any newsletters coming from a gambling portal will also be against the law!!
Even a newsletter from this great site!!

Wonder how many will be arrested and sent to prison because they have movies that have gambling scenes in them!!

Or sent to prison because they we're watching the World Poker Series on ESPN!!!!!!

I swear these politicians need a kick in their arse so hard they'd have to drop their pants to chew their food!!
 
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Mousey

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Up$hitCreek
I'm hoping the public outrage will cause some changes. I mean, come oooonnn!

:mad:
 

dickens1298

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Location
LA, California
Some comments that are more contrarian (at least - to this forum).

First, the initial post in this thread noted that the OPERATOR decided to shut down the site. He wasn't coerced nor forced, but merely did so out of fear. It was his choice not to do so, pure and simple. And for those posters so eager to support his web site, the article does mention that he has site up for sale...:)

This also isn't too dissimilar to credit card companies prohibiting the use of their cards on gambling web sites. Did the online gaming community raise a similar uproar?

Personally, I'm in the category of those individuals who do not care one way or the other. Neither my livelihood nor my entertainment is solely dependent upon online gaming, and I find it ironic that some who would admit to a gambling problem would also be the most vitriolic in their protests against this legislation.

Instead of protesting this legislation, and using such rhetorical arguments as "why doesn't the gov't pursue online molesters instead" and "this is a trampling of our individual rights", the online gaming community might be better served to propose ways in which online gaming can be better regulated. Rogue casinos, age verification, seized accounts - these are all issues that plague online casinos, but which most players seem to shrug off and indicate that it's not a problem (until it becomes THEIR problem - much like a recession is only a depression when YOU are the one out of work...). By seeking a resolution to these issues, the online gaming community has a much better chance of surviving.
 

Renegade

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USA
dickens1298 said:
Personally, I'm in the category of those individuals who do not care one way or the other. Neither my livelihood nor my entertainment is solely dependent upon online gaming, and I find it ironic that some who would admit to a gambling problem would also be the most vitriolic in their protests against this legislation.

Are you saying that because I oppose the Federal Government in overstepping their bounds that I have a gambling problem??

You really have no idea of what these bills will do to our rights!!
You already admitted that you could care less about online gambling, that's fine, but I think you need to take a closer look at this issue as it goes beyond gambling.

These bills impact a hell of alot more then just online gambling!
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
 

dickens1298

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LA, California
Renegade said:
Are you saying that because I oppose the Federal Government in overstepping their bounds that I have a gambling problem??

You really have no idea of what these bills will do to our rights!!
You already admitted that you could care less about online gambling, that's fine, but I think you need to take a closer look at this issue as it goes beyond gambling.

These bills impact a hell of alot more then just online gambling!
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.

Easy, Renegade. My words were that SOME posters here have already admitted to a gambling problem, and yet have claimed that such legislation is unjust. I was not implying you by any stretch of the imagination.

Ok - so let's take a look at this issue "beyond" gambling. According to various sources inside and outside of the US, online gambling has been identified as the primary catalyst for the rise in gambling addicts. So if you're Joe Public, wouldn't your reaction be supportive of such legislation, primarily because others seem to be harmed if such legislation isn't passed? And what amendment is being violated if such legislation were to pass?

Put another way - if gambling addiction is a concern with legislators, and if the unregulated nature of the industry is another factor in this legislation, what have YOU done - aside from complaining here - to combat such legislation? Have you sought to purchase the gambling web site (the closure of which kicked off this thread) and challenge the legality of the Washington law in court? Have you spearheaded efforts to regulate the industry, cleaning up such issues as underage gambling and rogue casinos? Or have you preached to the same choir?

I would argue that the last option is essentially the same as sitting back and doing nothing.
 

Renegade

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USA
what have YOU done - aside from complaining here - to combat such legislation?

I have emailed my State reps on this issue a total of 17 times since I have learned of it.
I have been trying to spread the word about this and get others involved so they may also email, call, or write thier state reps.
I have gotten my local Newspaper involved in this.

As far as buying that site, I don't need it, I have my own casino.
And will have my own poker room in serveral months.

As far as the deeper aspects of these bills???

Again, I take it you have not read these bills, or if you have, you failed to read between the lines and see the big picture.

Either way, Im not going to get into a discussion on this issue with you because You've clearly stated that you don't care either way and I'm not going to waste my time beating my head against the wall.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but honestly, if you believe that these bills are designed to help online gamblers with a gambling addiction, ......Well, we'll just leave it at that.
 

The Watchdog

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Costa Rica
Its really sad

So many efforts on avoiding gambling and thousands of other things that should be taken care off first.

But, you know how it works... They need to avoid US dollars to leave the country and "harm" the american economy.

Priorities: Oil, keep the money to ourselves and remember.. Freedom and Democracy before anything.

No further comments
 

dickens1298

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Location
LA, California
Renegade said:
I have emailed my State reps on this issue a total of 17 times since I have learned of it.
I have been trying to spread the word about this and get others involved so they may also email, call, or write thier state reps.
I have gotten my local Newspaper involved in this.

As far as buying that site, I don't need it, I have my own casino.
And will have my own poker room in serveral months.

As far as the deeper aspects of these bills???

Again, I take it you have not read these bills, or if you have, you failed to read between the lines and see the big picture.

Either way, Im not going to get into a discussion on this issue with you because You've clearly stated that you don't care either way and I'm not going to waste my time beating my head against the wall.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but honestly, if you believe that these bills are designed to help online gamblers with a gambling addiction, ......Well, we'll just leave it at that.

I guess we agree to disagree.

It's interesting - this morning I was perusing the various posts on this web site with my girlfriend. When you read about the various tactics used by some online casinos, and when you read about some of the gambling control problems some of the posters have, it's sometimes difficult to talk about the "good" things about internet gambling.

Regardless of my failure to see the "deeper aspects" of this, my question still stands - what part of the proposed legislation actually violates our constitutional rights? And regarding your role in combating this legislation - were your communications along the lines of "this is grossly unfair" or were there more proactive points of action - such as how to best regulate online gambling, et al?
 

bossplayer

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Kansas
dickens1298 said:
Easy, Renegade. My words were that SOME posters here have already admitted to a gambling problem, and yet have claimed that such legislation is unjust. I was not implying you by any stretch of the imagination.

Ok - so let's take a look at this issue "beyond" gambling. According to various sources inside and outside of the US, online gambling has been identified as the primary catalyst for the rise in gambling addicts. So if you're Joe Public, wouldn't your reaction be supportive of such legislation, primarily because others seem to be harmed if such legislation isn't passed? And what amendment is being violated if such legislation were to pass?

Put another way - if gambling addiction is a concern with legislators, and if the unregulated nature of the industry is another factor in this legislation, what have YOU done - aside from complaining here - to combat such legislation? Have you sought to purchase the gambling web site (the closure of which kicked off this thread) and challenge the legality of the Washington law in court? Have you spearheaded efforts to regulate the industry, cleaning up such issues as underage gambling and rogue casinos? Or have you preached to the same choir?

I would argue that the last option is essentially the same as sitting back and doing nothing.


Yeah, wtf ever. Instead, all US citizens should lose their money in the state they live in. That would be sooo much better... and playing games (ie lotteries, slots) that give them a great chance to win too!!!

Wake up...
 

soflat

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Florida
How come it seems like ti is always the guys who own casinos and poker rooms, or those who work for them telling us how important it is and that we should take action and write our Congressmen?
 

Casinomeister

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soflat said:
How come it seems like ti is always the guys who own casinos and poker rooms, or those who work for them telling us how important it is and that we should take action and write our Congressmen?
I've been preaching this for years, and I don't own diddly squat except this site. The banning of online casinos will only open the door to the scaggly dodgy-ass clip shot joints that will take anyone's money and say "eff you" when you have a complaint. It's definitely in the player's interest to get their politicians to see the light: regulation not prohibition.

If there is a ban, you can kiss playing at most legitimate sites goodbye - and you might as well bookmark the PAB page :D

And my traffic would probably go up - so ban away! Yee-ha!! :D
 

dominique

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The Boonies
Casinomeister said:
I've been preaching this for years, and I don't own diddly squat except this site. The banning of online casinos will only open the door to the scaggly dodgy-ass clip shot joints that will take anyone's money and say "eff you" when you have a complaint. It's definitely in the player's interest to get their politicians to see the light: regulation not prohibition.

If there is a ban, you can kiss playing at most legitimate sites goodbye - and you might as well bookmark the PAB page :D

And my traffic would probably go up - so ban away! Yee-ha!! :D

That is exactly what is likely to happen.

When you make something criminal, criminals will take over.
 

Tdoggy

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USA
mafia

Organized crime must have a big smile on their faces right now :lolup:

Mafia..what Mafia..There is no Mafia....I'm just a man blessed with many friends....:thumbsup:

What is the price of gas these days???? lol the Gov't trying to regulate something...I'm cracking up....:lolup:


Why not just tax it to death??? Wouldn't that make the gov't more happy :notworthy
 

Renegade

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USA
The State of Washington is trying to ban all publications about poker and gambling.
From Books, to magazines, to newsletters, to websites, to newspapers...
What does all these have in common?????
There are all forms of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Thus, their laws violates our constitution and again, very few people see this.

When will people start to wake up?
When Washington Officals start ransacking the local Barnes & Noble to remove all gambling related materials?????

I started this thread not as a casino owner, but as an American concerned about our Rights & Liberties.

Our Rights & Liberties are once again being threatened and violated, yet alot of people cannot see nor understand that this is happening.
I find it ironic that people will go and spend hundreds of dollars on their state lottery, not realizing that their odds of being struck by lightning while sitting on the couch watching tv and drinking a pepsi are better then winning a state lottery.
And yet, many people think that the sate lotteries have "FAIR ODDS" when in fact, the odds are stacked far more against people then any online casino could ever hope to do.
 

soflat

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Florida
Casinomeister said:
I've been preaching this for years, and I don't own diddly squat except this site. The banning of online casinos will only open the door to the scaggly dodgy-ass clip shot joints that will take anyone's money and say "eff you" when you have a complaint. It's definitely in the player's interest to get their politicians to see the light: regulation not prohibition.

If there is a ban, you can kiss playing at most legitimate sites goodbye - and you might as well bookmark the PAB page :D

And my traffic would probably go up - so ban away! Yee-ha!! :D

Sure, there are a few people with no financial interest that are totally up in arms about losing the ability to play slots and poker online. It just seems like the most vocal about us losing our rights are the operators and employees.

I don't know as much about the industry as you. I don't really see why lack of US regulations would open the door to clip shot joints. Can't the UK regulate the business? Or France? I'm not arguing, I just don't get it. Isn't it already illegal?

The State of Washington is trying to ban all publications about poker and gambling....

I don't live in Washington so don't expect me to go march on Olympia for you.

Anyways, if you are really mostly worried about freedom and book bannings, then you hurt your cause by tying it to support of online casinos.

We didn't have casinos in Florida until very recently. I never felt the govt was treading on my constitutional rights by prohibiting them.

The ability to enter a casino in any state has never been a Constitutional right.
 

dickens1298

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Location
LA, California
Renegade said:
The State of Washington is trying to ban all publications about poker and gambling.
From Books, to magazines, to newsletters, to websites, to newspapers...
What does all these have in common?????
There are all forms of FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Thus, their laws violates our constitution and again, very few people see this.

When will people start to wake up?
When Washington Officals start ransacking the local Barnes & Noble to remove all gambling related materials?????

I started this thread not as a casino owner, but as an American concerned about our Rights & Liberties.

Our Rights & Liberties are once again being threatened and violated, yet alot of people cannot see nor understand that this is happening.
I find it ironic that people will go and spend hundreds of dollars on their state lottery, not realizing that their odds of being struck by lightning while sitting on the couch watching tv and drinking a pepsi are better then winning a state lottery.
And yet, many people think that the sate lotteries have "FAIR ODDS" when in fact, the odds are stacked far more against people then any online casino could ever hope to do.


And where, pray tell, do you read that Washington is trying to ban ALL gambling material? According to your first post, the only sites that would be pursued would be those with links to online casino sites.

It's interesting to note how quickly vitriol and venom can intensify. You somehow imply that Washington would be prohibiting all literature on gambling, then talk about trampling First Amendment rights. Unfortunately, that's the only way you can link the legislation to any sort of violation of our rights - which are enumerated in the Constitution, save for those under penumbra - and that link is tenuous at best.
 

Kosop

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Des Moines
Taking our rights? Not so sure about that. Borrowing em a bit, probably. Oral intercourse is illegal in most states, but I am not really going to march on Washington and tell them to update the books. When they put an 'Agent John Smith' in my bedroom to monitor how I am doing it to the wife, I daresay it will become a greater issue for me.

Just out of curiosity, how many folks have been tried/fined/imprisoned regarding the new laws? How many have been tried/fined/imprisoned for gettin a hummer?

Is it dreadfully hypocritical of any goverment to pass a law such as this? Oh baby yes! Could they be better spending their time elsewhere? Most definetely. Can I drive 5 minutes and go to a casino from where I am sitting right now? Why yes I can. But, I can't play there in nothing but my underpants. To be fair to my local casino, I have never asked them if I could play in only my underpants...so the answer to that might be yes.

The US Goverment has been sticking its nose in wayyy to many things that it should stay out of. They regulated Cable TV. Microsoft antitrust. Severe firearms/ammunition restrictions. The list goes on. For our purposes, the goverment does not have a problem with gambling, it has a problem with gambling tax-free. That is the gist of it. They can't tax it, you can't do it. Leave morality out of it and at least call it what it is.

Say the entire US changes it mind and endorses online gaming. What now? Will it be clean? Probably. Will it be fair? Yup. Will it have massive corporate sponsors? Indeed. Will it be taxed to hell and gone? You know it. Try and cash out your 2400 dollar win now and you get 1300 of it.

This is not an issue of protecting americans from themselves, it is an issue of money.
 

Renegade

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USA
On June 7th, the new law in the state of Washington criminalizing online gaming and poker took effect. While this hasn't seemed to slow down the residents of the Evergreen State from playing in the 300 or so online poker rooms that are scattered across the Internet, the legislation is stretching its reach to extend into another very delicate area: poker information sites.

In an article in the Seattle Times by Danny Westneat on June 17th, it is reported that a poker information site has come under fire from the state. The site, called Integrity Casino Guide, is basically an information site for other Internet users which culls different information on the poker rooms on the Web and offers other pertinent details. The owner of
$1,000,000 freeroll at paradise Poker
the site, Todd Boutte, was concerned about the new law but, since he wasn't taking any wagers on his site, figured that all would be OK.

In a chilling sequence that could be compared to an Orwellian scenario from "1984", the state has said that he is still in violation of the new law in Washington. Because the site contains advertisements, links and information about poker rooms, it is viewed in the same manner as the offshore sites themselves. This could earn Boutte charges punishable with a Class C felony in Washington, which (as we have previously detailed here at PokerNews) is punishment usually reserved for serious criminals. For now, Boutte has shut down his site and is attempting to possibly restart it at sometime, albeit housed outside of the state.

Later in the article, Westneat also points out that his own newspaper publishes poker professional Daniel Negreanu's poker column on a weekly basis and wonders if they are violating the new law. According to the report, the state gambling commissioner, Rick Day, advises the columnist to advise his paper to quit publishing the Negreanu articles and also states that the commission is attempting to hire an investigator whose sole purpose would be to aggressively move on the new state law. All of this should anger poker players not only in Washington but across the United States and around the world.

There is an inherent right of the states to enact laws that govern their citizens. This same right extends up into the federal government and down to the local ones as well.
What is bafflingly surprising and upsetting about Washington's approach here is that this is an attack on SPEAKING about the online game. One of the basic tenets of freedom in the United States is the ability to speak out about pretty much anything, no matter how offensive it may be.

Another thing that is tremendously interesting about this legislation is that the person who sponsored it, Senator Margarita Prentice, has refused interviews from a multitude of media outlets to speak about the law that she brought to reality. Another part of the American system is the right of the people to challenge their legislators and/or guide them on their legislative paths. By denying access to what her thoughts were regarding this piece of legislation, Prentice could be seen as directly violating her duty as an elected official.

So what's next in the state of Washington? Are you going to head into the local Borders or Barnes & Nobles in each city across the state and eradicate the poker books and magazines from the shelves? It is a startling turn of the cards (yes, pun intended) when situations such as this are happening and should serve as a warning and perhaps that kick in the backside that poker players across the United States and particularly in the state of Washington may need to drive to action.


I never asked anyone to jump on a band wagon.

What is happening in Washington is but a taste of what is coming.

Why do I get the feeling that because I am trying to show people what is happening, that I am coming under fire????

IF some people enjoy going through life with their heads buried in the sand, I have no problem with that, but please, if what is taking place in Washington doesn't bother you, stop posting.
Likewise, if the anti-gambling bills also doesn't bother you, please stop posting.
 

soflat

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Florida
IF some people enjoy going through life with their heads buried in the sand, I have no problem with that, but please, if what is taking place in Washington doesn't bother you, stop posting.
Likewise, if the anti-gambling bills also doesn't bother you, please stop posting.

So we should only post our views on Casinomeister.com if we agree with you?

I thought there was some pretty good constructive criticism of your argument, but you don't want to hear it.
 

Renegade

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Location
USA
Where do you get that idea?????
I swear some people out there are really strange!!!!
Read what you want into it....
Beleive what you want to believe.
I was trying to alert people on what IS going on, but it seems like I'm wasting my time.
I'm done, I have far better things to do then to try and pull your heads out of your asses.

It seems like there is no concern here until the government really does start sending people to jail over this....but hey, guess what?! When that does start to happen....IT'S TOO LATE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kosop

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Des Moines
When they start kicking in doors to take our guns, then it is about too late. Until then, we can always fire em ( the goverment ). Honestly bro, if you do not like the way things are going, start campaigning now. If you want to change things, get elected.

If you would like to forcibly eject the present goverment and install one that is more friendly to the less puritan among us, take up arms, convince 51 percent of the population you can do a better job, and make it happen.

I am content to let things go as they are because the goverment has no hope at all of enforcing its legislation. It is illegal for me to do it now, but I do it anyway. When they pass the new laws, will it make it more illegal? Will they monitor my keystrokes to see where I am going while on the internet? Do you think they can? Aside from what we see in the news, I believe that most legislators are intelligent. They are well aware of their own limitations and the limitations of the police state they are trying to create. They know how much they can push the population before the population pushes back. They are giving lip service to a bill which they know they have no hope of enforcing.

Remember prohibition? Well, not personally but the fact that it did happen. Did America stop drinking?
 
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