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The truth about online games????

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by toofast4u, Dec 25, 2002.

  1. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    This industry seems to be saturated with complaints regarding the fairness of games and who you can trust, and I would like to know some inside information.

    Blackjack is probably the most popular internet game and it is the game that most people bitch about the most on the internet. There are a few things I would like to know about the software for some of these companies such as microgaming, cryptologic and bossmedia.

    First, in the game of blackjack when is the card you recieve determined?? Is there a certain # of cards in a queue or is the card determined exaclty when you press the hit button?? The reason I ask is you can tell if you could have made a different move and had a different outcome, which would make the game a fair game. Such as if the dealer hits your 12 with a 10 card, if you would have stayed, would the dealer have gotten the same 10, or would they have gotten a different card?

    Secondly, I have heard someone in this forum state that most online casinos use 'Player Profiling' to determine what the player is going to do, does this mean you betting patterns are being monitored to determine the best time to start a negative streak?? For example you a have been winning for 2 hours and you are on a great winning streak and you keep betting the same amount, but all of the sudden you lose nearly every hand that you play, what happens then?? Does someone hit a button labeled win/lose?? It seems that in most online casinos at first you can win a little, but as soon as you start feeling comfortable and bet more money the house gets hot and you can't win to save your life. I can remember several times in cryptologic casinos and Bossmedia casinos when I would lose 17+ hands in a row, mostly from bust hands and the delaer getting 21's or BJ. Does the software have some sort of back door that allows the operator to manipulate the odds??

    Some inside information would be helpful in this, after all, if it wasn't for us as the players online gaming wouldn't even exist, and I think that the industry would grow much more if people had real proof that they are not being screwed by some computer program. In a land based casino, the cards are right in front of you, and even though there are ways for even a land based casino to cheat, it is easier to check out and prove. But when the dealer is a computer that is 1500 miles away, its diffiuclt to tell what truly going on. If you are pre-determined to lose or win every time, then its not even gambling in my book, thats just giving your money away.

    Lastly, if you have proof that a casino is cheating, what can be done about it???
     
  2. al102

    al102 Guest

    That's why I stop playing online gambling.

    I believed that I bet with someone who stared at my cards with his fingers move between the buttons marked "DEAD" or "ALIVE"
     
  3. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    The questions you pose have gone through many online gamblers' minds, toofast4u, and your post will almost certainly result in some well aired personal opinions regarding the honesty of various software company products being posted again.

    Most of these opinions are based on more playing experience and gambling knowledge than I can muster and I shall therefore leave the stage to them.

    But if you have been cheated, or preferably BEFORE you play when you should do some research, I would suggest to you that the Online Players' Association is a useful ally.

    The volunteer advisers in the Association are always prepared to evaluate a complaint and if it is valid handle the mediation with the casino for you. The requirement is that you should have tried unsuccessfully to resolve the issue direct with the casino yourself before submitting a complaint.

    The service is free, and the recovery rate is impressive, with just over $500 000 being recovered to date. Something like ninety percent of complaints are resolved within a week, I'm told although more difficult cases that require extended debate and pressure can drag on for weeks and even months. The Association not only has good contacts, but the strength-in-unity of its membership to use as clout with the more questionable operations.

    Many posters here are members, and the Casinomeister himself is a volunteer adviser.

    Capability to detect cheater casinos in the future will possibly be enhanced through unannounced and practical playing tests, the results of which can be interpreted by a Truegambler software program called Online Casino Analyser. This is presently undergoing extensive testing for accuracy and reliability. I don't know when that will be launched, but it certainly seems to have good potential and will perhaps help to assuage fears in some cases.

    Of course The Wizard of Odds and The Gamemaster both continue to give great service in this area with their highly experienced tests and fearless reports.
     
  4. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    I am confident the Online Casino Anylizer progam at You must register/login in order to see the link. is for real. His software has collected data for both Microgaming single line JoB Video Poker as well as Microgaming BJ.

    The Video Poker stats are due for release Jan 13,2003. The BJ stats will be released sometime in February, 2003.

    If his stats are indicative of a fair game for both VP and BJ, I will stop my monthly rants about Microgaming, and will assume that everything that happened to myself and my friends was due to very hard luck.

    However, if he makes a "preliminary" report that the games may be rigged, than it will serve as a lesson to all -- that in order for players to be confident in any online gambling software, a regulatory agency connected to a legitimate government needs to make surprise BACK-OFFICE audits on a regular basis.
     
  5. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I still agree with you dave that there is something very wrong with microgaming's BJ game. It almost never loses.
     
  6. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    is that program availalbe to individual players?? Does it work with all casinos??? Its a really good idea to have some sort of program that tells you as the player if you are playing a fair game or not. The assurance that most of these places give us regarding 3rd party reviews does not give me much peace of mind. It would be nice to have hard proof against these casinos that are cheating players, then we could maybe take some action against them
     
  7. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Truegambler will be releasing the first results of several million hands of gambling analysed by the OCA come January 13th according to advance media publicity. The conclusions should make interesting reading.
     
  8. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Toofast, the True Gambler software depends on input from hundreds of players. It will analyze your play in the final version; right now they are in beta.

    I went through the websites of several online casino software makers, and they are very careful about how they describe odds and fairness with their games. Very few specify that the card games must act like card games, as you (and Nevada regulations) require.

    Microgaming does. Access Gaming does as well. If you are not in North America, you can play in the casinos licensed on the Isle of Man; those are connected with very large land operations and are likely to be fair.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. is the only online casino "grandfathered in" to be legal and regulated by the Northern Territory of Australia. Their blackjack and baccarat are dealt from "infinite decks"--a single deck of 52 cards shuffled after every card is dealt. According to the Wizard of Odds, this results in a good percentage for players.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. is owned by Kerry Packer's land company. Eight deck shoe for blackjack. It is the only online casino to date licensed and hosted on the island of Vanuatu.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. uses videocasts of live dealers from a studio on Antigua. Real cards.

    Be sure to read the Meister's Rogue list; many of those are casinos who were caught being mathematically...creative.
     
  9. cathin

    cathin Dormant account

    I firmly believe that the software has to be programmed in the dealers favor and "reacts" to your bets AND your balance (notice how long it takes to get another winning hand after you increase your bet, how rapidly you lose during that last $5/10 and how you can never win on a bonus?) BJ is a losing proposition - better to take it to a land based casino (for table games) -matter of fact, isn't BJ suppose to have the best odds of all casino games? In all fairness though, land based machines are also "programmed" for certain payouts, and get "cold" once they've paid out. I'm still convinced though that there's a little guy hitting a win/lose button somewhere upstairs - which would explain why every time my fiance came near me when I'm at a hot machine at Atlantic City, I start LOSING and when I send him AWAY I start winning again! Hmmm, maybe he's just Bad Luck... :eek2: (LOL)
     
  10. Hi everybody,

    Let's get the truth out there: Are the games fixed or not? Do the casinos make 'player profiling', etc.? I'm sure some do, but then again, I don't have certain knowledge about. Many of the casinos I've played at lately seems to have very unfair odds at the BJ tables, Inter Casino included, so..... There must be some people who used to work in the online casino industry and therefore able to leak some truth to the rest of us about odds and so on. I strongly encourage them to come forward and make contributions to this debate...PLEASE, we need this information....

    Best regards and lucky gambling
     
  11. a_friend

    a_friend Dormant account

    Dear Fellow Bonus Hoppers,
    I have been just been given some inside info about playtech. Beware, if your are playing there, they rig there blackjack games. I rather not expose my identy but i will give some examples of how the software is rigged. Very important also, the software is rigged more when playing with a bonus!!!!

    Here are some examples:
    When playing BlackJack, if you ever hit your way into a 21 using 3 cards or more and the dealer is showing a 10 or ace, the chances of him having BJ are 95% and if you hit into a 20 out of 3 cards or more and the dealer is showing a 10 or ace, the chances of him getting a Bj are about 80%.
    I'm sick and tired of hearing good things about playtech,there fu-king scamming bonus hunters and this sh-t must stop!!!
     
  12. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    its so obvious that most of these places are scams, I have given up in trying to win online. At least in a land based casino you can see whats going on right in front of you, even though some of them too seem to get too lucky sometimes. But at least in a land based operation you can go home with your winnings right away
     
  13. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    oh, and secondly, most casinos come up with some sort of BS reply when you ask them about the randomness. One casino claimed to use a radioactive isotope counter to generate the random numbers, another claimed to use the measurement of white noise coming off of two zener diodes. BS. I also notice how worried the casino boss seems to get whenever you scrutinize thier fairness, they wanted to know where I would be posting negative feedback so they could 'Protect their reputation'
     
  14. kezza

    kezza Dormant account

    I've always done really well at Playtech casinos....apart from one where everything seemed rigged against me. Maybe I now know why.
     
  15. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    it seems that sometimes these casinos 'let' you win a little. there have been instances where I would be on an unbeliable winning streak, but then all of the sudden I lose 17 hands in a row. I have also noticed if you do get a decent win and cash it out, you can always count on not being able to win anything at all from that point onward
     
  16. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    It has been awhile since I've posted.

    But I (for one) am quit pleased with Bryan's reccomendation of the KIWI Casino. Over the past couple of months I've done very well there. This weekend I deposited $300.00 and managed to parlay that to $1800.00. This morning I requested a withdrawal of all but about $200.00 and a couple of hours later I worked that $200.00 back up to $500.00

    I do notice that KIWI Casino is the only Playtech site that is reccomended by Bryan.

    I'd be interested to knowing if any of the members here have had similar encounters with other Playtech operations.

    Best of Luck to all

    CIPHER
     
  17. mary

    mary Dormant account

    toofast4, those are real random noise generators used in physics.
     
  18. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    I really doubt that online casinos use them though
     
  19. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Boss casinos may very well; after all, they only need one attached to the central server.

    Anyway, True Gambler just released preliminary results on the analysis of 2.5 million hands of video poker, played since March 2002. They are working on a program that is resident on the player's computer and mirrors all the game play to a central server, which collates the play from all beta testers and analyzes the software fairness (as well as other cool things).

    They looked at Playtech, AquaOnline, and Microgaming. So far, results have Playtech in the lead for being 99.4% likely to be non-random (i.e., rigged). Whee! Second place is Aqua Online aka Cytech. Microgaming is 9/10th likely to be random.

    More details are at You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  20. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I really want to see the blackjack stats though. When will they be available?

    As for playtech playing unfairly, not in my experience. I think its one of the few that does give a pretty fair game, no matter what you're playing. I play at Kiwi, New York Casino, Las VegasUSA, Vegas Casino Online, Twin Aces, Miami Beach, Casino Mapau, and Casino Fortune. I can safely say that I believe that none of them are rigged.

    I cannot, however, say the same for a number of Microgaming casinos (and ALL microgaming blackjack for that matter). There are more than a few of them that simply will not let me win, its a guaranteed loss when I go there. There are others, sisters of the losers even, that I always seem to come away from a winner. One thing remains the same across all of them though, you can't win at blackjack.

    I'd say Playtech's is the fairest bj. Cryptologic's isn't bad either, can be streaky though. Microgaming is dead last.
     

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