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The Sands payout policy is a disgrace

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Bruno712, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. Bruno712

    Bruno712 Banned User

    Occupation:
    semi-retired
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Dear Sir:

    I have been playing at your casino on a regular basis for over 2 months. According to my records and your Peak Entertainment records, I have wagered in excess of $100K USD. I have never complained when I lost. I have never attempted to charge back a deposit even when I believed I was a victim of some amazingly unfair deals. I have never bounced a deposit to Neteller or Firepay. What I have done is kept my part of the bargain and paid up promptly when I lost. Despite all of this, on the few occasions where I have won big, this last time in particular, I have been forced to wait 9 days (now) for my winnings to be given to me. You can give me all the excuses in the world, but there is absolutely no excuse for this unacceptable practice. It is not only bad business, but it is tantamount to thievery. First, you hold my winnings because of some ridiculous hold policy involving Firepay. Firepay debits my checking account within 24 hours. You claim it then takes up to 9 days to get paid by them. Your issue is, therefore, with Firepay, not me. If you have a trust issue with Firepay, why punish me? Would you wait 2 weeks for me to pay you if I lost? I think not. Then there is this ridiculous I have to check the players logs for 7 days nonsense. Am I allowed to check players logs when I lose and withhold your money until such time as I am satisfied that the game was on the up-and-up on your end? Hardly!

    I want my money and I want it now. These asinine business practices of yours have gone on long enough. You have already lost me as a customer. Please dont give me an excuse to take this any further.
     
  2. m249a

    m249a Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    Pa
    Bruno, if you would have played that kind of action at Atlantic city, or maybe even foxwoods, they would offer you anything to keep you coming back. It would be comp city baby. Free room's, airfare, food, chicks, booze...whatever you want. I think its absurd they treat you like this, I hope you get a speedy resolution to your problem, and find someone who will treat you like you deserve to be treated.
     
  3. gfkostas

    gfkostas Ex-Bonus Whore

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    Cryptologic Sands casino has a pretty good reputation.I'm suprised of the service you have received Bruno.Completely unacceptable to hold your funds for so long.In your case I would seriously consider stop patronize Sands.
     
  4. LRDell

    LRDell Experienced Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Yep - that's how they get you to play it back

    I have had similar problems with Sands and payouts. Most recently had about $500 to cash out and was told, just as Bruno was, that there was a very long delay for them to confirm payment from Firepay. Not so, said Firepay - they said it was a casino policy to hold the funds. I did not get to the point of the 'player logs' question because anger made me stupid and I played it back through. Sands certainly encourages you to dump it back in by not even letting you set it aside while they 'confirm', as almost all other casinos do (where it is out of your playing balance while it sits in limbo) - it won't even let you request the withdrawal.

    I can't use Netteller in my state, but I would be interested to know if people have had similar problems with other deposit methods. I have to use Firepay and Citadel at most casinos.
     
  5. hhcfreebie

    hhcfreebie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    research
    Location:
    USA
    Peak entertainment is very reputable. When it comes to customer service they are... hmmmm, polite, nice but clueless as well.
    Months ago I requested a cashin. I checked my Neteller account a few days later and I didn't see my money. I then keep complaining to them via emails and online chatting. They were really nice to me and saying it's not their problem, they would look into it, blah blah, they even gave me some free money to make me happy.
    A week later, I found out the money was already in my Neteller account only a few hours after my cashin request. Ooops, it's all my own fault. :p
    They still hadn't figured out what's going on until I told them everything was all set.
    My suggestion is:
    (1) Keep pushing them, who knows what goodies will you get. :D
    (2) Check your accounts from time to time, I even heard people getting 2-3 times the money they requested! Go figure.
     
  6. bewitch

    bewitch Dormant account

    Location:
    Home, sweet home
    I had been there. Waiting for cashout is NO fun at all. However, it's pretty true what they told you ( at least, that's what my bank told me ).

    The Firepay or any E-check system has a warehouse to hold the checks about 5-7 business days, then release to other bank. That happens everywhere including Paypal, Neteller instant check, transfer between banks, even my brokage accounts. In most of case, they will let you "use" the money but NOT taking out until the check is "clear". In fact, it's them trusting you not bounce the check back.

    It's hard to wait but I will suggest you better to keep cool (at least until you got your money ;) ) I remembered the money arrived very quick after the waiting period.

    Have a good one
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2004
  7. Frank

    Frank Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Antigua
    Sands payment

    Basically, the one post on this page is accurate, "The Firepay or any E-check system has a warehouse to hold the checks about 5-7 business days, then release to other bank." This is common practice for all Wagerlogic casinos and The Sands doesn't have any control over it.

    There are also some issues involving Firepay which Wagerlogic must be careful of. We have seen quite a few customers play and lose with money they didn't even have in their Firepay accounts which ends up as a chargeback for the casino. Basically, there is really nothing we can do to expidite payments at this time.

    We are fair and honest and pay customers their winnings, maybe it's not as fast as some customers would prefer but we do the very best we can. Lastly, even though the payment process isn't extremely fast, the hold percentage for customers at The Sands has been great so far this year (not good for the casino but good for its customers) so that should make up for the slight delay in payment.

    Frank
     
  8. Bruno712

    Bruno712 Banned User

    Occupation:
    semi-retired
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Save the spin

    Frank,

    I will be glad to show you a copy of my bank statement, my Neteller statement anf my Firepay statement. You can then easily cross reference
    each transaction. The only transaction that takes longer than 24 hours is a deposit made on a Saturday. Firepay and Neteller know if the attempted deposit to your casinos are going to bounce well in advance of you getting (or in your example not getting) my money. So, again, your issues are with them not me!

    Try to follow the logic here and I will use the extreme case:

    I deposit $100 in my casino account through Firepay on a Saturday . I win 2 Million dollars on that Saturday. You hold my winnings pending my payment to Firepay. On the Following Monday, 48 HOURS LATER, the money is debited from my bank account by Firepay. I then call Ecash looking for my money and I am told that "due to Firepay delays I must wait 9 business days to attempt a withdrawal." Why? The money has been debited from my account! This is no longer my issue but yours with Firepay!!!! All of these transactions are so easily confirmed that my German Shepherd Dog could do it. If your checks and balances procedures with Firepay are that bad, change them or don't use them but don't punish the player! Your spin just ain't cutting it here. Now give us the PR BS on the "8 days to check game logs" excuse. I will caution you that I have already heard the truth from an executive at Peak so tread cautiously!
     
  9. bewitch

    bewitch Dormant account

    Location:
    Home, sweet home
    >>I deposit $100 in my casino account through Firepay on a Saturday . I win 2 Million dollars on that Saturday.<< :eek: :eek:

    Are you kidding? Oh, my God. I will be very nervous as well. Great Job!!! :thumbsup:
     
  10. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    lol, I think that was just an example bewitch. :D
     
  11. bewitch

    bewitch Dormant account

    Location:
    Home, sweet home
    :p
    Got it. I re-read it now (after my 1st coffee this morning. :oops: ..) LOL~

    If I remember correct, any deposit with Firepay or e-check will cause delay withdrawal like this. I experienced this at casino-on-net, English Harbor Casino group, Ecash casino group....

    I will suggest you to use Neteller instead and they should withdrawal your cashin in 2 days. Keep up good work!!! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2004
  12. HateMG

    HateMG Dormant account

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    First of all Firepay approves any merchant transfer only if you have balance there. If for some reason they would've allowed for that to happened it should be their problem not yours and they would deal with the customer to resolve it. If I made a deposit in Firepay and then my check(s) bounced Firepay will charge $25 for every returned check. Why would you be responsible for somebody elses financial transaction?

    Second of all if you so afraid of chargeback you can allow to withdraw the winning and leave the deposit in casino account till it's cleared.

    For some reason you don't have this problem with Neteller just with Firepay. But Neteller Instacash also takes 7 business days to clear in Neteller account.
     
  13. HateMG

    HateMG Dormant account

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    And another thing I played at Omni and Sands recently. I made Firepay and Neteller deposits. At Omni I was ahead something like $2500, but just because I made stupid $100 deposit via Firepay I was not allowed to withdraw anything even my Neteller deposits.
    So I played more and lost everything, I know it was only my fault I should've waited but it's very tempting to wait for 10 days and not to play. I think you're losing customers because of that as well. Take a hard look how many customers playing at public tables at Inrecasino and your casinos. If you treat your customers a little better you might see much better profits.
     
  14. Bruno712

    Bruno712 Banned User

    Occupation:
    semi-retired
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Frank, your silence is deafening

    Still waiting for the spin.
     

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