Your Input Please The ordeal of online gambling, Casumo.

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Harry do you have a rough idea how many MGA licensed casinos are out there, a ball park figure?

I don't think those big companies would have any mafia links either

Edit: remember also malta was part of the british empire till the 1960s, so the english language is imbedded there, the laws and systems to some degree, which would attract foreign investors and businesses.

Would say anywhere between 500 - 1000.
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
Right, a figure that large leaves scope, to my mind, for some mafia involvement. As over the years they've been attracted to the gambling industry/businesses like bees to honey, I think you're right though they would tend to be interested in the B&m side for laundering/racketeering...however some dodgy money transaction/ activity must've moved online for govts and regulators to be making such a to-do about it, their number one bete noire.

A bit like financial investors I can see the mafia wanting a mixed portfolio...
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Right, a figure that large leaves scope, to my mind, for some mafia involvement. As over the years they've been attracted to the gambling industry/businesses like bees to honey, I think you're right though they would tend to be interested in the B&m side for laundering/racketeering...however some dodgy money transaction/ activity must've moved online for govts and regulators to be making such a to-do about it, their number one bete noire.

A bit like financial investors I can see the mafia wanting a mixed portfolio...

Yeah, sure money will always attract fraudsters.

However, the number of MGA operators is much lower as many have multiple brands under one licence. Many of them are publicly listed, which means they have to follow the laws and regulations of corporate governance and compliance. Very tough to infiltrate.

The more dubious jurisdiction is Cyprus where most Curacao "licensed establishments" are based.
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
It is true that some part of iGaming is controlled by Ukrainians (Vulkan/Vulcan), Russians and Georgians (BetConstruct) - won't say any more names - which are connected to dubious circles. The impression is reinforced by the fact that most aggregators offering fake games (Novo, NetEnt, PnG etc) do come from Georgia and Russia.

However, the real mafia tends to stay away from businesses where a clear "paper" or digital trail (which online casinos automatically have) makes it difficult to launder the illegal proceeds. Hence, they focus more on land-based gambling houses, e.g. the vast majority of Spielotheken in Germany is controlled by Ukrainians, some reports say over 90%. You've got 1000s of those spread throughout the country and walking in with illegal cash into one and "lose" it is much easier than laundering it through an online casino.

Where the mafia is setting up an online casino (mostly in former Eastern Bloc countries) it is for one reason only and that is to have a legit appearance. They might even run it perfectly legal and ethical, just to keep the facade intact. VulkanBet Germany is a perfect example.

The vast majority of online casinos registered in Malta are run by Swedes. Why Malta? At the time when the online gaming frenzy took off, it needed an environment with little regulation and low taxes. Hence, Malta was discovered to be on the map of this planet. The Swedes especially liked it because of the weather. :D Why Swedes? They are gambling-crazy, just like the Finns and Norwegians. :D

A good part of the MGA operators is listed on the Stockholm Stock Exchange - LeoVegas, NetEnt, etc. I have been reading business reports and watching report presentations for years, but to this day have yet to find even a hint of "mafia" being involved in those companies.


:D There are really lots of Russians and Ukrainians in IGaming including tons of filthy rich affiliates. In Russia and Ukraine, people are super smart with search engine optimization, maths and coding. Popular SEO tools like Hrefs and Semrush is a good example and even better is
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which is originally from Moscow.

Vulkan is actually the name of many dodgy online casinos mainly targeting some of ex-soviet Union countries and Russia itself. There are a couple or few that trying to look legit but, as a rule, rest of them don't pay out winnings they only accept payments...

Hundreds of these on a daily basis getting taken down by Roskomandzor (Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Informational Technology and Mass Media in Russia).
Actual sites, don't belong to one single owner — anyone digging deeper on Yandex can find places that sell a ready Vulcan casino for as little as $500 with 200 games on it.

Before 2009 when gambling was allowed in Russian there were popular amusement halls called Vulkan (Volcano) and as at that time people were sceptical to gambling online, somebody created a ripoff site to attract gamblers to play online and named it Vulkan...

The same is also Azino777. Beware!
 

JohnSnow

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Location
Netherlands
The MGA has no issue's giving licenses to operators from Russia or Ukraine when they follow the rules, they are not all scams however Russian and Ukrainian entrepreneurs are as Savage as they come, so I would say that these operaters under MGA are in the grey zone. They will do whatever they can within the rules to make the house advantage bigger.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Then to make matters worse, I log-in today to find the dreaded Red Exclamation Mark of Death on my username. Press the 'red' part of the verified list of documents which includes green-ticked for card, SoW etc. and get the ludicrous request of a selfie with me holding an 'undefined' again!

I've just got that too. Want a selfie of me holding my DL. Haven't asked for any SoW documents, but knowing they probably will, and the fact they say they are going to withold withdrawals, means thats me done there.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
That selfie+id sounds bit weird in this situation, if understanding (or assuming maybe better word) right,@colinsunderland @dunover you both have had account with them at least some time already?

Usually selfie request is done when casino suspect it's not you who's playing (quite obvious, not many other reasons for that, except you guys might be handsome enough in your ID pictures that they want other one as well :) ), it's quite late wake up if you have been playing some time already and if there's no any significant changes in behavior, why to ask it now?

@dunover is already SOW verified, and as can be read, they should know you better than most of others after all documents and explanation you had to already provide.

That selfie request itself is probably easiest part if there's SOW to follow, but once again, asking it in this point seems not have much logic behind but more "computer says, ask selfie" in some internal guidelines which often are just followed without thinking too many seconds. It's understandable and in many casino operation tasks works like when you accept documents there are clear guidelines, when approve withdrawals, same again but when you start to complete your EDD (enhanced due diligence) you would enhance your part little bit as well and take much more personalized approach than in accepting pictures of your credit card etc...

We all are so different, also in our source of incomes and current financial situation, it's not that black and white like standard KYC checks, based on what read and hear (also pointed out in this forum), it seems that at least some operators follow too much some certain line in guidelines, like some reps stated here, it's not ok to gamble with credits, sure it's not good to take credit for gambling but then again, take quite many years to play again after paying mortgage or not allowed to play with benefits, is it not ok to play when you automatically receive child benefit etc...?

Lost point once again, these selfie requests seem to be some new trend again, thought that these were past and gone years ago. Gives you some extra piece of verification but if in UK you already have passed electronic verificatin when you open account and then sent your ID+POA, what possibly more you get in most of cases?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
That selfie+id sounds bit weird in this situation, if understanding (or assuming maybe better word) right,@colinsunderland @dunover you both have had account with them at least some time already?

Usually selfie request is done when casino suspect it's not you who's playing (quite obvious, not many other reasons for that, except you guys might be handsome enough in your ID pictures that they want other one as well :) ), it's quite late wake up if you have been playing some time already and if there's no any significant changes in behavior, why to ask it now?

@dunover is already SOW verified, and as can be read, they should know you better than most of others after all documents and explanation you had to already provide.

That selfie request itself is probably easiest part if there's SOW to follow, but once again, asking it in this point seems not have much logic behind but more "computer says, ask selfie" in some internal guidelines which often are just followed without thinking too many seconds. It's understandable and in many casino operation tasks works like when you accept documents there are clear guidelines, when approve withdrawals, same again but when you start to complete your EDD (enhanced due diligence) you would enhance your part little bit as well and take much more personalized approach than in accepting pictures of your credit card etc...

We all are so different, also in our source of incomes and current financial situation, it's not that black and white like standard KYC checks, based on what read and hear (also pointed out in this forum), it seems that at least some operators follow too much some certain line in guidelines, like some reps stated here, it's not ok to gamble with credits, sure it's not good to take credit for gambling but then again, take quite many years to play again after paying mortgage or not allowed to play with benefits, is it not ok to play when you automatically receive child benefit etc...?

Lost point once again, these selfie requests seem to be some new trend again, thought that these were past and gone years ago. Gives you some extra piece of verification but if in UK you already have passed electronic verificatin when you open account and then sent your ID+POA, what possibly more you get in most of cases?
This isn't computer generated crap in my case, but a manager personally asking for yet more stuff, but this time relating back to 3 years or more ago. The fact my account is now suspended suggests that they consider me suspicious and therefore until I bend over backwards yet again, they don't have (in their eyes) sufficient proof I could afford my deposits back then. So as it stands, 3 years ago they have taken money off a problem gambler who cannot show they could afford it. This is obviously bollocks, but that's the status of things right now. Maybe I should tell the UKGC lol....
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Notice my account doesn't actually ask for the selfie, it was live chat who said that, so adding requirements onto what they have already asked for. I had to go to live chat as when I tried to upload my license it kept telling me there was an error as it couldn't detect my camera. Well durrr, I'm on a desktop PC without a camera, and why would I need one to upload a photo from my hard drive. @CasumoLouis That was when they tagged on the selfie request. I'm well past enhanced KYC stage, which I passed long ago as you can see from the screenshots below

2020-01-22 (1).png 2020-01-22 (2).png 2020-01-22.png
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
This isn't computer generated crap in my case, but a manager personally asking for yet more stuff, but this time relating back to 3 years or more ago. The fact my account is now suspended suggests that they consider me suspicious and therefore until I bend over backwards yet again, they don't have (in their eyes) sufficient proof I could afford my deposits back then. So as it stands, 3 years ago they have taken money off a problem gambler who cannot show they could afford it. This is obviously bollocks, but that's the status of things right now. Maybe I should tell the UKGC lol....

That what i meant, just impressed myself badly. This feels exactly that person who is dealing with your verification (not probably same person who is contacting you, he/she can be just a messenger and therefore just asking exactly what has been told) is maybe not fully familiar what actually is enough and relevant to judge that you are legit person and there's no reason to suspect you use anything else but your own funds for gambling.

I see that biggest problem in some SOW issues here that some of these requests seen here are not reasonable and not really essential to clarify that player is no causing high AML risks. Something happened three years ago, i couldn't get my payslips and everything from that far to show where every single coin have come, then i think should also use that often spoken common sense and what's reasonable and what's actual risk. If you have spent 200 more than you "should be able" some years ago and everything else after that casino is happy, how big risk you are? When adding few 0000 in that number, it's totally different game but both at the moment threated exactly same in some places.
 

Louis

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Location
Malta
The reason for the Camera request is because of the selfie, not only the upload of the identification :)
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
Glad I ditched Casumo a while back, can't be bothered with all that silly nonsense..... And im even less likely to want to supply any major docs now as casinos can't guarantee against any data breaches.

Most casinos seem to manage to meet the requirements without half the stuff Casumo expect you to do?
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
Serious question what if you worked in the sex industry eg porn or stripping? Isn’t that classed as self employed

Same sort of thing as a "professional" poker player I guess as its not taxed in the UK so no need to declare any winnings from tournaments or cash games. Most places only track if its above 2k in one hit etc otherwise you just walk out with it without anyone giving a second look.
 
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