The joke that is Betfair.

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
Hi,

After an incident yesterday, I googled around and found you. I felt compelled to write this. Please read below.

I am an experienced gamer. I actually like Betfair's Exchange. I also play their Casino Games. How I wished I had known of you and your 'rogue' rating of Betfair.

Please refer to the attachments below. I played Hold-Em. I obtained a Full House with my hole cards and the first three cards, i.e. flop. Betfair basically cheated me. I'd even say that they were racist.

1.
I had a Full House with my hole cards and the flop. Only a stupid idiot would fold. This was the initial excuse given. I feel that that they came up with this BS excuse because I am 'Asian'. Even if I lost the hand to a, say, Royal Flush, I would still get 30-1 for the Ante. It would make no sense to "fold". Unless... Betfair hinted that I am a "stupid Asian".

2.
I note that this happened as soon as I upped my bet amount. See attachments. I was wagering £5 games. The minuted I played £10, I obtained a Full House. Then, the BS excuse.

3.
Note the game time-stamps. More time was taken on the final game, the Full House hand. I was chuffed and made sure I played correctly. If Betfair want to lie further and say that I was "careless", this would not wash.

I play this game often. I know the rules of the game. The initial "you folded" excuse was a joke and as I have made my feelings clear - I thought it to be racially prejudiced.

I asked to have my account closed. The lies and perceived prejudice sickened me. Was on hold for 24 minutes. Then, 19 minutes. Was told that I would get a call-back. Nothing was forthcoming.

This morning, I went on Live Chat to make sure that my account was closed. I was given a different 'excuse'. I suppose they realised just how foolish an excuse "I folded" was. But see their new excuse:
John: I can assure you that not one of our team are racist in any way and treat all equally. I appreciate how frustrating this must all have been for you however if a disconnection prevents a hand from being played in this instance we are limited as to what we can assist you with if this was not confirmed at our end.

Now, they say 'disconnection'. If so, why not continue from where left off? If "not confirmed", why not resume game?


Betfair is indeed a rogue casino. They merged with Paddy Power and are bigger now. A more reputable name. But they behaved like this?

I have lost all confidence in online gaming.
 

Attachments

  • Hold_Em_1_blanked.jpg
    Hold_Em_1_blanked.jpg
    44.3 KB · Views: 443
  • Hold_Em_2_blanked.jpg
    Hold_Em_2_blanked.jpg
    44.6 KB · Views: 444

ricky

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Location
london
Who are we to believe

a random internet nobody ?

A billion dollar company who shares their software with many other casinos?

And playing the race card? considering they have a macau section on their site???

Get lost and next time gamble only when you have full mental capacity
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Who are we to believe

a random internet nobody ?

A billion dollar company who shares their software with many other casinos?

And playing the race card? considering they have a macau section on their site???

Get lost and next time gamble only when you have full mental capacity

I'm not saying we need believe every detail of the op's post.
But as to who to believe?
How about Bryan who put Betfair in the rogue pit:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
 

ricky

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Location
london
I'm not saying we need believe every detail of the op's post.
But as to who to believe?
How about Bryan who put Betfair in the rogue pit:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

that was due to a certain issue, bryan required all happy hour'ers to be paid, the cost to betfair of paying them >>>>the cost of being in the rogue pit

And abusers hammering that offer is what led to that issue in the first place, so dont abuse a promo and youll most likely be fine at betfair.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
that was due to a certain issue, betfair advertise all over the uk, casino included, heck its one of the biggest online gambling sites in the world

Bryan puts a bit more thought and weight into his decisions than 'a certain issue'.
Play and defend if you'd like - just remember, you'll have little (read: no) recourse here if you get screwed over.

ps - advertising dollars does not a good casino make.
 

ricky

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Location
london
Bryan puts a bit more thought and weight into his decisions than 'a certain issue'.
Play and defend if you'd like - just remember, you'll have little (read: no) recourse here if you get screwed over.

ps - advertising dollars does not a good casino make.

definitely true but my belief is that the only way the casino side of betfair would stay afloat would have been to deny winnings to the AP/abusers.

Pretty much everywhere that rates them low describes the happy hour promo

i also dont see genuine complaints like i do with other casinos, even accredited casinos? or are complaints about rogue casinos banned?
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
definitely true but my belief is that the only way the casino side of betfair would stay afloat would have been to deny winnings to the AP/abusers.

Pretty much everywhere that rates them low describes the happy hour promo

i also dont see genuine complaints like i do with other casinos, even accredited casinos? or are complaints about rogue casinos banned?

Not banned, as evident by the one above.
I'd wager you don't see many complaints here as cm members, knowing Betfair isn't inclined to work with the forum to resolve issues, don't touch them with a barge pole.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
Who are we to believe

a random internet nobody ?

A billion dollar company who shares their software with many other casinos?

And playing the race card? considering they have a macau section on their site???

Get lost and next time gamble only when you have full mental capacity



1.
A "random internet nobody" who can provide screenshots and Live Chat messages.

2.
Having moved into contracting, I have the mental capacity to earn a 4-figure daily rate... on multiple contracts.

3.
Of course it's prejudice. What else could it be? LOL! "folded" changed to "internet connection error"? If my name was John Doe, they'd investigate. properly.

4.
This was not a promotion. I have been with Betfair for years.

5.
Who loses? They do! I enjoy a game and a punt. I can afford to. Betfair knows this. They now lose my custom.

6.
Yes! Again, they were racially prejudiced. If it was John Doe, they would have investigated and when I called (Live Chat and e-mail yielded nothing), even the person on the other end felt that it was really odd - lol - to "fold with Full House" - and put down a note on my account to have it looked at. But I was having none of it. The Live Chat person was an a-hole. In my line of work, if you treat customers so horribly, even when it can be proved that it was Betfair's fault (c'mon! fold? then disconnected? why can't resume if disconnected?), you will readily lose clients.

7.
As mentioned by someone, Betfair is a rogue casino.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
I wouldn't lose all confidence in online gaming quite yet.
While Betfair may be rogue, there's plenty of reputable casinos to be found here.

Check the accred list, do due diligence in your research, ask Qs and abide by Ts and Cs and you'll be right as rain. Gl. :thumbsup:

True. But you'd expect the likes of Betfair/Paddy Power to be reputable.

They have not denied that I did get a Full House, etc. They claim that "I folded". Only a f**king idiot would fold. The Hold Em game is as such, even if the dealer had AA, and the last 2 cards came out AA, i.e. Aces 4-of-a-kind, I would still win 30-1 on the Ante bet. I feel that when they realised just how foolish the excuse was, they changed it to "connection error". This is another joke. If connection problem, then why was the game not resumed?

When you remove all that is impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
It's not a rational business decision for Betfair to be racist considering that Asians have a reputation for being some of the highest spending gamblers in the world.
I think that deflects from the issue.

From what I've read, it seems Betfair said OP disconnected and that folded his hand and OP seems to deny this happening.
I think it's a simple case of he said she said and can't be decided.

That's an interesting question: should Betfair's word outweigh OP's word. And I don't know the answer to that.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
It's not a rational business decision for Betfair to be racist considering that Asians have a reputation for being some of the highest spending gamblers in the world.
I think that deflects from the issue.

From what I've read, it seems Betfair said OP disconnected and that folded his hand and OP seems to deny this happening.
I think it's a simple case of he said she said and can't be decided.

That's an interesting question: should Betfair's word outweigh OP's word. And I don't know the answer to that.


Pietro,

Not entirely true.

1.
At first, the first Live Chat soon after it happened yesterday, Betfair said that "I folded". I pointed out that it was simply ridiculous for a person to "fold", when it was a 30-1 winning hand irrespective of the dealer's cards.

2.
As you can see from the screenshots, the wager was £10 + £10. If I did not have enough of a balance to deal, i.e. another £20, the game would not have allowed me to place the £10 + £10 bet in the first place. There was simply no way for me to lose. Why would anyone "fold" when it was a dead-cert winning hand? Betfair knows this!

3.
Had a conf call with Singapore this morning. Saw that there was still no e-mail response from Betfair. My account was still active and not closed with my personal details expunged. So, I went on Live Chat again. I requested again that my account be closed and cited the issue at hand. Having realised just how stupid their initial excuse was, Betfair Live Chat said this morning that is was a disconnection. I challenged this new BS, stating that a disconnection should not cancel a game, but return the game to the state before disconnection. If disconnection = fold = lose, Betfair can rake it in by simply having games disconnected. Their excuses are revolting - an insult to my intelligence.

3.
I am a terribly accomplished consultant. Before cancer struck lat year, I travelled the world on client engagements. I know what prejudice is all about and the initial BS of "I folded" reeks of racial prejudice, as though I am some 'stupid Asian'. I agree that it is not a "rational business decision", but you cannot regulate human behaviour.

4.
A quick check would show that I deposited £300 yesterday. Funnily enough this is the same amount which the system refused to pay out, i.e. 30-1 on £10. They lose.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
I add...

Logic dictates that no 'rational' system would allow a player to 'fold' on a Full House, without some sort of prompt to warn against this. It makes no sense.
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Location
London
Hilarious. The Op giving it big time with their £10 table stakes (big whoop) and then we find its a duplicate account to give another self-aggrandising non-sensical rant about a bookmaker. I don't think gambling agrees with you my friend, maybe take up another hobby.

"...you cannot regulate human behaviour". Oh the irony;)
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
Betfair has a f**ked up system. But somehow, it's 'my fault' that their system messed up.

LOL! I 'folded' when I was sure of getting a return of 30-1 on a £10 wager.

LOL! You just can't make this up.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
A quick check of my bank statement shows that I deposited some £3k+. Which is about right, as I don't lose more than a day's rate. You tell me? Who loses?

Seriously, how can they say that the software "disconnected" and thus folded?

Why can't they just be truthful for once? The wanted to return the £20 as a "goodwill gesture". Told them to keep it.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Yup, it is me. I tried to post with that old one. But it was not active. So made a new one.

Why did you lie and claim you found his site by Googling it? You were already a member. You have a history here - and if an account is dormant, you simply ask that it be reopened. Or make a post acknowledging the other account. It also states clearly in the rules not to open additional accounts:

1.9 - Do not register an account fraudulently. Fraudulent accounts are defined as accounts created specifically to flame others (hiding behind a mask of anonymity), or accounts opened primarily to spam the board, act as shills, trolls, sock puppets, or any other anti-social behavior. Do not register more than one account in the forum. Additional accounts will be deemed as bogus, and you may find yourself out on the sidewalk lying on your back staring at the stars. If you share a computer with another member (boyfriend, girlfriend, pet goldfish...), please let us know so that we won't suspect you of being dodgy.


To come in here acting like some newbie is treating the membership like a bunch of chumps.

You are not a newbie, you knew what you are doing. I couldn't care less if you have a problem at Betfair - you should have known better. And you should not have lied to me or to the community.

Your veracity and trustworthiness = 0.
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
The best joke?

I just called to make sure that my account was closed. They won't expunge my details though, e.g. remove my card details, etc. When I asked why, the person commented that it's because of the amounts that I have played. LOL! This is exactly why I want my details removed! Looks like I need to cancel and get replacement cards.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Irrespective of whom the OP might be, a disconnection should NOT cause a player to lose an in-play guaranteed winning wager. Normally, the game state is saved and can be continued from where play left off. This is basic good practice since the internet is inherently unstable, and the occasional disconnection is inevitable. In a player vs casino situation, there is no excuse for not resuming other than having software from the 1990's. An acceptable alternative would be to use "basic strategy" to complete a game on behalf of the player, which in this case would not be to "fold".

I play Microgaming, and the NORM with this software has always been to preserve the game state and allow completion after reconnection, and the original software WAS written in the 1990's.

Bumbling and incompetent CS at Betfair has lead to the current escalation where the OP feels they are being mocked by initially being told they had chosen to fold, and this has been taken as a racist slur as the alternative would be that the CS agent was stupid enough to accept that one of it's players would choose to fold such a hand rather than accept the possibility that Betfair's own software had malfunctioned and needed investigation.

It's not the first time that failure to invest in adequate CS has made a casino look stupid, as from the players' point of view the CS agent speaks for the company, so if a CS agent comes out with some remark that shows a lack of understanding of even the basics of the games they offer, it reflects that lack of understanding off the company as a whole.

Returning the stake is an insult. They should manually restore the game and play it through using basic strategy on behalf of the player, and this should be the outcome of the wager. They should then fix whatever bug in this game can't handle disconnections properly.
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
Forgive me but I cannot see where the confirmation of racism has come into this matter.

ANY poorly trained CS agent could have spoken to ANYONE like that, not that it is great or I condone it but unless they type during chat or say over the phone racist statements that I think its more a case of either poor assumption or paranoia!
 

Non_Partisan_77

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
UK
Why did you lie and claim you found his site by Googling it? You were already a member. You have a history here - and if an account is dormant, you simply ask that it be reopened. Or make a post acknowledging the other account. It also states clearly in the rules not to open additional accounts:




To come in here acting like some newbie is treating the membership like a bunch of chumps.

You are not a newbie, you knew what you are doing. I couldn't care less if you have a problem at Betfair - you should have known better. And you should not have lied to me or to the community.

Your veracity and trustworthiness = 0.



I did google! To find out about Betfair. That's when I found out that you have listed them as rogue!

But yes, reading back, it can be construed as though I am a newbie. Poor choice of words. I just wanted to get my screenshots up. I also have the full Live Chat messages.

To be clear...

The sportsbook bit is OK. Place £10k on odds of 1.15, get back a tidy sum. Or a double or treble on really low odds.

The Games are a different story! This is the 2nd time now that the 'casino games' have caused problems. Disconnection and fold? If disconnected, why was the game not returned to point of disconnection? Why would anyone 'fold' on a dead-cert Full House winner? Why are such issues always the fault of the player?

When I saw Casinomeister's rating of BF come up after googling, I tried to use old login details, since I remembered that I get a lot of messages from Casinomeister. Have not used it for a long time, it was dormant. if I wanted to 'hide', I would not have used same IP address (e.g. you can easily see that I am typing this from an IP address in the South West). A simple reboot of home WiFi hub = different address. Or I could have VPN'ed into my other home (different region), where I have home network set up, so I can readily access data for client engagements. Or used a mobile dongle.


I now have to cancel my cards and I have e-mailed Skrill (I recommend them and their VIP programme) to block BF. This is how much I distrust them.
 
Top