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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Hi Lucky,

My time is limited as well, but I'll try to answer what I can.

The OPA is not as you believe "disorganized" but as I mentioned before, many key players were out of the net this past month. As you are certainly aware, when one returns from any absence, be it vacation or business, shit piles up. Well, everyone has been busy getting their "shit" together before tackling OPA issues. Don't forget, what pays the bills is what the committee memebers do besides the OPA. So what seems to be disorganization on your end is simply the committee members catching up on theirs.

Bonus hunters? We all have differing opinions about bonus hunters, but what I believe what has been expressed by the OPA is that if players play by the rules of the bonus, they are a bonus player. A bonus "abuser" is one who is out to scam a casino. Now the objective of a casino is to build a player base, having the same players return as often as possible. Most casinos have some sort of loyalty program, and they're stupid if they don't. As you can tell, most casinos that have problems with players or financial woes are ones that have poorly written bonus rules, or promote programs that are just "too good to be true". So when it comes to bonus hunters, the ball is in the court of the casinos to handle these players as well as possible. Most players play for bonuses. It's as simple as that.

Steve has been around, his last post here was only a few days ago. I would not go into a tizzy in his absence.

And yes, I am Mr. Admin, Bryan with a Y :)

~b
 

jad

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
foo foo
yes im still very far out there
hows your weekend goings?? :rolleyes:
tell fee fee i said hi ;)
ok off to watch football
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Hey Jad babes nice to see you are still about, Im off out shortly myself Im going to the Heath hopefully to get some business with some gentlemen folk.

Oh well better go and wash my bits

foofoo xx (not feefee that is some other dizzy cracked mare)
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
"How does the OPA balance the needs of members who are bonus hunters vs. courting casinos and having them see the OPA not solely as a bonus-hunter club?"

That's it exactly, Lucky, very well expressed. The OPA has as casino members many casinos that don't offer much in the way of bonuses and don't generate much in the way of complaints. Until Cryptologic casinos started offering their weird "handcuff the player" bonuses, we didn't have any for them at all!

We are in a difficult position with respect to the casinos that do offer large bonuses, and are continuing to do so, because they are also having increasingly lengthy payment processing delays. This affects not just the "bonus hunter" members, but all players. Our "bonus hunter" members help enormously in keeping casinos honest, which benefits our non-bh players & the other member casinos; but, it also lends rhetorical ammunition to those casinos that want to weasel out of paying up--see discussion on www.winneronline.com and www.bj21.com

There are also the "bonus hunters" who will do what they can to suppress other players' *collecting* so that they can continue to milk the cash cow by supporting casinos that offer high bonuses. They want to keep them in business. You'll see them bashing the OPA on one forum and giving out advantage play advice on another!

Yes, Steve has the most say in advertising. This is because of his affiliation with Casino Gazette. He has also assumed the most legal and financial liabilities that goes along with this.

I, for example, am much freer to express my support for our "bonus hunter" members because of my position as researcher. Maybe I don't see much discussion of that particular OPA service because it's going so smoothly (so far)!

I invite members to go over to www.winneronline.com and read some of the threads about Gambling Online magazine. Frankly, I was pretty proud of myself, to see somebody who gets paid to keep up on the industry admit that he can't...as well as I know I do. That's an OPA service too, guys.
 
L

lucky

Guest
Mary, good post. Thank you.

I do want to ask you to clarify one thing though. You said:

"I, for example, am much freer to express my support for our "bonus hunter" members because of my position as researcher...!"


This leads me to believe that the OPA as a whole, or by dictation from Steve, doesnt want to explicitly support bonus-hunters. I say this because by the words you chose, it seems that it is frowned upon to express support for bonus-hunters.

Can I assume this is true? Im not trying to twist your words, mind you, just want a clarification. :)
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
There are also the "bonus hunters" who will do what they can to suppress other players' *collecting* so that they can continue to milk the cash cow by supporting casinos that offer high bonuses. They want to keep them in business. You'll see them bashing the OPA on one forum and giving out advantage play advice on another!


Mary the above statement is pure poetry, well done, now guilty parties go away and lick your wounds
 
L

lucky

Guest
"There are also the "bonus hunters" who will do what they can to suppress other players' *collecting* so that they can continue to milk the cash cow by supporting casinos that offer high bonuses. They want to keep them in business. You'll see them bashing the OPA on one forum and giving out advantage play advice on another!"


I was also intrigued by this. Im not sure what you mean, how would an individual player supress others "collecting"? And still get paid himself? I dont understand this. :)
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
While I can't really speak for Steve, I think statements he has made in the past about bonus-hunters no longer apply; certainly other OPA committee members have expressed support for "bonus hunters" or "Smart players"--vide recent threads on winneronline.com--which if I may say so myself scintillated with rhetorical brilliance. (esp on my part:proud :)

Part of that is from redefining the terms of the debate. The casinos that characterize the players into "real gamblers" (read:losers) and "bonus abusers" (read:winners)controlled the debate and successfully argued that "bonus abusers" make it harder for them to stay in business.

Well, promotional percentages climbed, and (winnings+bonus) seizure rates climbed, it became clearer that this is a casino management problem, not a player integrity problem. Casinos were sorting players after they won or lost, thus making it clear that it was the winning or the losing, not the player's identity or moral history that was at issue.

The existence of many casinos that do just fine without bonuses demonstrates that it is not some kind of industry sacred right or need. That the casinos themselves had some kind of "secret" play-through requirement standard that could be articulated should they deign to do so makes it a measure of their honesty if they are willing to articulate it or not.

Now the debate is reframed:

*If there is a gambling requirement that satisfies the casinos needs, why not state it?

*If there is a player the casino does not want as a patron, why not inform him/her before taking a deposit?

*If casinos want to target bonus promotions to specific players, then do so.

In a world of software, all these problems are easily solveable. Hell, casinos have to verify identity before taking a wager, can't they check against their "abuser" list at that point? Of course they can--it's just that they don't want to miss the opportunity of the "abuser" losing some money to them.

It is at this point that the OPA has solid rhetorical ground and easily stated requirements to express to the casino membership. This is not about the OPA as a haven for "bonus abusers"; this is about the OPA as an organization of casino operators willing to give gamblers sufficient information to be informed consumers of the gambling product, and protecting the integrity of the industry for all parties involved. Casinos that honestly express their play requirements for bonuses do not attract "abusers".

Another way to look at it is that the online casino bonusing model of marketing has diverged from the land model of casino marketing and business. Thus, it also violates any justification of this conduct by analogy.

Now, we are moving on to another phase of theory to consider, which is this: How would the OPA membership feel if the OPA were specifically attempting to discourage casinos from offering bonuses?

Which we do; we do caution casinos on this.

What I have seen is that some players--OPA members-- do continue to patronize bonus-granting establishments (Vide Golden Palace) with the knowledge that they are on their own.

In short, are these players by their patronage and posts guilty of colluding with the casinos in ripping off other players?

Now, can it be considered that such players are undercutting the OPA's efforts to maintain a clean industry, by reducing the effect of any boycott?

Also to consider: If the OPA denies membership,hence making successful collection efforts less likely, to casinos offering big bonuses--what then is the value of OPA membership to "bonus abusers"?

There's more to being an OPA member than paying $25, playing, and filing complaints. There's keeping up with Mary's posts, after all, which are probably better value than print subscription mags on the industry. (Insert smug emotican here)

Look at what the IGC charges for their industry monitoring newsletter.
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
"I was also intrigued by this. Im not sure what you mean, how would an individual player supress others "collecting"? And still get paid himself? I dont understand this."

I have a specific poster in mind. Here's how it works:

1.By discouraging players from filing OPA complaints (or Julie complaints) or organizing to put pressure on malfunctioning casinos, more money is made available to the casino in question, and casinos offering bonuses stay in business.

2.The player in question is counting on doing a better job of looking like a "good customer" and getting paid by Casino X so s/he will return to Casino X.

If Golden Palace doesn't figure out that a player is a "bonus abuser", Golden Palace will pay out. As long as it has the money to do so.

It's a risk.
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Good to see the spam man scam getting huge coverage over at winers, poor Tipod Snow man he must learn to read and grasp an understanding of content, still massive coverage of the copyright infringement thanks to numpty nuts, and remember I am always right, and the more outragous you are the better.

OH RAR NUMPTY NUTS OH RAH NUMPTY NUTS
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
I have nothing to do with that site wail wail wail, one never said you did, but alas you will never understand, BUT I AM NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SITE, hey goofy face I never said you did, but im nothing to do with that site, oh for crying out loud do shut up.

ps ta for the posts I never post there hahahahaha and got u to do it for me

TRA LA LAR

BUT im nothing to do with that site, one never said you did but you will never grasp that will you oh no, you prefer to go off one one.

Peace and harmony do bee do

But its an outrage blah blah blah,

one has served a purpose dear boy

but im nothing to do with that site

oh dear stuck record gfaw gfaw gfaw

Agadoodoodoo
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
RIGHT THATS IT


I am going to hit you jolly hard with my handbag for saying I am involved in that site.

**ducks

ner ner nee ner ner

Some people dance cheek to cheek some people tra la lar

--------------------

What a very strange man, and he says Im mad
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Good Morning fellow casinomeister people how are we all today?

Have cyber croupier got you all fired up? is it shocking behaviour or a clamp down on bonus abusers?


Is the who wants to be a casinomeister game rigged?


DISCUSS--


-----------------------------------------
Hot dogs for sale where? there next to the beefburgers
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Donald Benjamin Gertrude Pythagarus Gambler are you still around not heard or seen a post from you for a while

My good man where for art tho Romeo?
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
foofoo you are rambling like an insane fool,

no im not


yes you are no im not

oh and im nothing to do with that site


rolling rolling rolling raw hide
 

foofoolemar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
hey put a $1 in an envelope and send it to 6 people and then write there names on a list and tell then to cross off the bottom name and you will get $6329463296 guaranteed by Tuesday
 

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