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The accredited Vegas Partner Lounge forced me to lose everything

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by A23456789TJQK, Jun 16, 2006.

    Jun 16, 2006
  1. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    I signed up at 777dragon, deposit and got the intial deposit bonus, played and lost. I immediately made another deposit and this time I won and won and (after a few reversed withdrawals) I went on to cashin. 2 days later my withdrawal was denied and they sent me this email with all the terms for their bonus and whatnot. I complaint to support and their response was yet again some generic email with some terms and they told me how I played BJ and it only counted 5%. But I was NOT asking them about the bonus :rolleyes: , I didn't take any with my last deposit!

    They even told me to email support again so they could help me further!!!!:eek: This is first class service indeed.:rolleyes:

    Well readers could guess what happened next, with no means of getting money out when I legitimately won, I lost everything in attempt to fulfill terms I shouldn't be bound by. *sigh*

    This is what ruins internet gambling. When you thought you found an 'ok' group to play with and you are willing to play there everyday even without a bonus and this is what you get. *sigh*
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Jun 16, 2006
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Tut Tut to both.

    You are the life blood of the casino industry!
    The main cause of this debacle is an error in the Microgaming system for tallying wagers prior to EZBonus.
    What happens is that the software fails to recognise a bust out situation on a bonus, and then carries the WR over to the next deposit.
    It can be a hell of a job explaining this to CS, and often one needs to keep on at them, sometimes quoting session numbers and balances from Playcheck (at this point they normally concede defeat, especially when their attention is drawn to the condition that server playcheck records are the final arbiter in a dispute).

    Sadly, since you played and lost, they are unlikely to give back the original amount, but may offer compensation for the incompetence of the software, and the inability of their CS to read the whole E-mail before shooting off a standard reply. Other players have been caught by this, played and lost - the casino have then argued that they did not make you play at that time, and that you chose to play rather than assert your rights to have the T & C honoured.

    In such a situation, and when you are certain you are in the right, it is best to not play at all, and let the account remain idle, even to the point of uninstalling it and telling them it goes back on the PC when they get the issue sorted. If they say you must withdraw again, do so through Flash logon, and tell them you don't play through the Flash interface, you are just withdrawing to assist them.

    Don't forget, you have the choice to make the banishment from your PC permanent!

    Those MG casinos with instant Neteller payments are what the industry needs. You get the money instantly if the EZBonus is in place, although it can still go wrong under the earlier system (and it DID, TOO!).

    I am sure it can't cost that much more to do the instant payments, and they can always put a frequency limit on to prevent overuse.
     
  4. Jun 16, 2006
  5. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    No harm trying to PM the casino rep here. If the casino had insisted that they were right you had no choice than to play till you reached their WRs. Although you had lost everything, the casino should look into this and offer comepnsation if they are in the wrong.
     
  6. Jun 16, 2006
  7. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Before we get too far... A-K said played and lost - he did not say busted or zeroed out.

    A-K, how much was left in your account before you made your second deposit?
     
  8. Jun 16, 2006
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    A...K is in the red for rep points. When you get in the red, your PMing and search functions are disabled. I'll PM the rep for him.
     
  10. Jun 16, 2006
  11. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    I busted out, that's why I made another deposit.
    If my memory serves right, I deposited $25 and got the $50 sign up bonus which I lost (balance=$0). I then deposited a $100 and played and withdrew and reversed and played and reversed (or did I even make a 3rd deposit I can't remember) but eventually I think I had $260 or so.

    As you guys pointed out I don't think would actually refund me. I think even if they did I'd gamble and lose it all anyways. But I am just very very unhappy not being able to cash in when I win and these incompetent CS really can and will do anything to ruin your day. They actually told me to email them again for a better explaination. Can you believe this?:eek2:
     
  12. Jun 16, 2006
  13. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    Well thank you for being so thoughtful
    but seriously what exactly have I done to deserve being labelled 'less than zero'?
    I am gambler, I am technically a spender and are my demands of a little respect and a better service from these casinos too much? Nobody will come up here and spend time typing a post complaining a casino if he wasn't being wronged by the casino to begin with. My posts in the past are genuine but I am 'less than zero' in the forum I thought was designed for players like myself.
     
  14. Jun 16, 2006
  15. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Rep points can be given by any member to another member. These points can be positive or negative, and usually reflect their opinion of a particular post, or sometimes the poster themselves.

    I don't know what you did to get to -33 - I gotta say that's pretty bad, but somewhere along the line you must've attracted someone's attention in a negative way.

    But don't worry about it too much. I think that as long as your posts are constructive or relevant they will quickly start heading in the other direction. Personally, I don't pay too much attention to my own rep points because these are a relatively new development here and I believe each member's own efforts here in the forums will properly reflect their reputation, or lack thereof.

    By the way, in future, if you think you are being treated unfairly, don't play just to blow off steam - let the relevant people know and perhaps the issue will be solved. I find that when people do this (including me, btw), we typically play less carefully and end up blowing the lot.
     
  16. Jun 16, 2006
  17. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Interesting enough, this happened with me also at Cherry Casino this week. Somehow my Neteller deposit wouldn't go through the first time so I cancelled it (the banking screen was hung up) and I tried again and it went through. I saw my balance and it surprised me for it was 2 times my deposit (the first one must have went through I figured then ) plus a $15 bonus (which I did not ask for).

    I e-mailed CS and asked what the requirements were since I recieved a bonus on my FIRST deposit but a second one went through by accident and added to my balance and I recieved no bonus on it. I was told I must play out all funds in my account to be able to withdraw any amount and to count towards my wagering requirements....hmmm...was not a happy person at all...for the second deposit should not have counted towards ANY wagering requirements..so...

    I won some and knowing I wasn't close to meeting the requirements due to the double deposit...:mad: I too lost all my winnings trying to reach the requirements ....I even still have the e-mail which told me this...and I actually got up over $600 but I knew I didn't meet the requirements...sure made me a little upset..didn't even ejoy the session.....bummer..
     
  18. Jun 17, 2006
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Wrong.

    This is wrong. If the extra deposit was due to a malfunction, it should be considered VOID, just as they would for a game result in similar circumstances. The WR should be based on the bonused deposit only, and they should allow the removal, or VOIDING of the second one as it was the result of malfunction.
    It's not as if this particular issue with Neteller is new, the error messages generated are highly misleading, and may even SAY "just try again later". I have pointed out the misleading nature of the MG error message, but absolutely nothing has been done, yet all it needs is the replacement of a string of text, not hard is it!

    The correct action is this.
    If ANY deposit for ANY reason appears to malfunction, do NOT simply try again UNTIL you have checked with the source, such as Neteller online statements, to first see if the amount has been deducted.
    If the amount has been deducted, players should contact the casino to manually credit the stuck deposit, if it has NOT been taken from source, then the automated banking function can be used as normal for a "try again".
     
  20. Jun 19, 2006
  21. VPL

    VPL Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Call Centre Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi There A - K,

    Could you please email your details (Acc number) to me at schalk at 777dragon dot com, and I can look into the situation.

    Regards
    Schalk
     
  22. Jun 19, 2006
  23. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    my email to VPL

    To CM,
    Thank you for bringing VPL up, I appreciate your help truely.:)

    To other kind readers of this thread,
    For the record, I am posting an email I just sent VPL in its entirety (with account numbers removed). As you will see I was also being treated unfairly by Maple Casino so in case you are returning to VPL you have been forewarned as to what might happen to you and your money.

    "Hello

    I actually have two complaints about two VPL casinos, 777Dragon (I posted over CasinoMeister) and Maple (I have not posted about this). I will try to make things simple:

    777Dragon- T7dr03xxxxxx
    1, opened account and deposited $25 and got bonus and lost everything
    2, almost immediately made a fresh deposit of $100
    3, played, withdrew, reversed, played, withdrew, reversed etc and finally cashed out $265
    4, two days later the $265 was returned as your support say I didn't met wager requirements
    5, complaint to support, no use
    6, forced to play and lost the whole $265

    Maple- vmcr031xxxxx
    1, on 6/13/2006 deposited $100, played and lost everything
    2, immediately made another deposit of $100, played, withdrew, reversed, played, etc and finally withdrew $228
    3, the other day, I found $25 in my account which I played and lost. (As you can I see I am very much a player who reverses withdrawals. I thought I did not cash in my whole balance and left $25 there that's why I played.)
    4, three days later my withdrawal of $228 was returned and I was asked to wager a crazy sum. I had no idea what's going on, but having just dealt with your 'professional' support team (777Dragon) I knew you won't be satisfied until I lost everything, which I did.
    After I lost, to my astonishment I learnt from Playcheck that $25 was NOT my own money but actually a bonus being credited on 6/13/2006- I DID NOT ask for this bonus and this bonus was given while my account was literally EMPTY- my withdrawal of $228 has passed the 'pending period' and long gone from my account when I checked. I didn't receive any email telling me I was given a bonus neither. How can an honest casino sneak a tiny bonus into a player's account long after his withdrawal and then return all the money and apply a wager requirement on everything?

    I really don't think you guys are treating me fairly. I am not a high roller but I play $10/$20 a hand BJ so I don't know whether you think my business is nothing or what. The aforementioned sum ($265 and $228) could be lost anyday by me but I really do not like being forced to wager and I think it's a shame not to allow players withdraw when they win.

    I thank you for taking time to look into this matter.
    Regards,
    Tina "
     
  24. Jun 19, 2006
  25. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    Between my start of this thread and yesterday I am down $2k playing $10-$50 BJ over the three casinos of the Trident's Group and Vegas7 (not sure which group it belongs).

    VPL's returning of my winnings at both instances really got me 'going' I guess. Damn I really need a rest, not returning when I can win or at least when I win I am paid.
     
  26. Jun 19, 2006
  27. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    With that Maple Casino situation, I thought maybe you got the 'Bonus on every deposit' bonus. But that is only 15% and you got $25 on a $100 deposit, so it must be something other.

    Anyways, you shouldn't have to clear the bonus if you lost it (unless there was a different bonus system when this happened).

    The current T&Cs state:
    "A Players total account balance consists of a cash account balance and a bonus account balance.
    A Players cash account may be cashed in at any time. "

    I had a similar, but much better, experience with a VPL casino last week. I deposited and won, withdrew. While the wdw was pending I got an email that I had not cleared the bonus and my cashout was reversed. I was quite surprised there was a bonus (I hadn't read the website). However, I had the option to forfeit the bonus, and their support made me aware of that option.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jun 20, 2006
  29. VPL

    VPL Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Call Centre Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi A - K,

    Maple Casino :

    The $25 in your account was the ongoing 15% credited for the two deposits you made in short succession.

    These bonuses are credited to your account automatically (in this case, almost exactly an hour after your deposits), but can be opted out of. All you need to do is send an email to support, requesting NOT to receive any bonuses on your account.

    Also, you can request the bonus to be removed from your cashin amount, and you will then not be bound by wagering requirements. Support should notify you of this when the money is placed back into your account.

    777 Dragon :

    I have checked with our Finance Department, and I have confirmed that this was purely our mistake. Your account was in fact zeroed out prior to your subsequent deposit.

    I apologise, as there is no excuse for this kind of support, and I have forwarded your details to our VIP hostess, who will be in touch with you shortly.

    Hopefully this type of situation should not occur again, as we have recently implemented the EZBonus system across all our brands. This should simplify all bonus issues, and make life a little easier for players as well as support staff.

    Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any more queries.

    Regards
    Schalk
    VPL
     
  30. Jun 20, 2006
  31. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    As usual, a prompt, straightforward and detailed reply from VPL plus an apology. Nothing of the ' BS excuses' which we often hear from some casinos. The only thing outstanding is some training for your CS staff. You cant handle each case personally, can you?

    I hope that the VIP hostess has something in store for A-K and that he will come away a satisfied customer.
     
  32. Jun 20, 2006
  33. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    I was given a GENEROUS comp by your hostess - $25 with a 30x wager requirement!:rolleyes: :eek: So that's what a returning player's worth, eh?

    As you appreciate the fact that it was TOTALLY your mistake, I think the refund of my losses is the only appropriate thing to do. That's what I'd do if I were running an honest business. Because if I don't do that from now on I can stiff whoever I like by reversing players winnings and have them lose and in the end pretend to be sorry and give them a trashy $25 sticky bonus with a 30x WR. But of course that is only my opinion.

    $25 sticky bonus is a total joke and I wonder how you can expect me to be a satisfied customer. Never again will you clowns get my business again. (Sorry CM, I think I signed up my VPL accounts under you.)

    As a matter of fact none of any online casinos will get my business anymore. I hope they ban online gambling in US and you get no customers, then you will know how to treat them right.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 20, 2006
  35. Devo11

    Devo11 Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    I'm sorry but thats an absolute joke by VPL.

    Casino screws up when the player obviously wanted to withdraw and due to the casinos incompetent staff the player is not aloud to cashin and forced to wager and loses. After admitting the error the casino compensates with one of the crappiest bonuses I've seen in a while.

    No wonder this industry is under attack by the US. These casinos have the right to do whatever they want with no "Real" recourse.

    Congratulations VPL for once again providing evidence why this industry is incapable of regulating itself.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jun 20, 2006
  37. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    If support did not inform customer that bonus could be removed, then I agree that it is an absolute joke.

    The Casino Rep said that customers are being informed of this. And in my own experience I was informed that bonus could be dropped (before I even asked).

    By the way I never heard VPL giving out sticky bonuses.

    One other thing, I don't see any need to bringing up the attack by the US everytime someone has a problem with support.
     
  38. Jun 20, 2006
  39. A23456789TJQK

    A23456789TJQK Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    I never asked for the bonus nor have I expect to be credited.

    I am a BJ player, why they hell do I want their bonus for? So that I have to wager it 1500x times????:mad: :eek:
    More importantly, I never received any notifications about bonus being credited. This is total, absolute lie about customers being informed as such.


    This has become very simple. When you win, VPL almost immediately credit your account with a bonus and without notifying you AFTER you have withdrew the money. If a player plays it by mistake then the casino has an excuse to reverse the player's winnings and rape him with the impossible WR (30x on slots, 1500x on BJ).

    This is actually more than a joke, this is outright rogued behaviour.
     

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