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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by phynqster, Sep 23, 2006.

    Sep 23, 2006
  1. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Here is one for the readers of this forum:
    What should I call the wagers at roulette, baccarat, and craps that most casino's stop players from playing those games for wagering requirements. I was thinking of calling them "even money cancellation bets" do you think that would explain that roulette and craps and baccarat will count, just not those bets.
     
  2. Sep 23, 2006
  3. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    Most casinos call these bets "low risk wagers". You could also call them "hedge bets".
     
  4. Sep 23, 2006
  5. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Why "call" them anything?

    Why not spell out exactly what bets are disallowed?

    For example:

    Hmmm, maybe I should get a job writing T&C ... :D
     
  6. Sep 23, 2006
  7. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I would leave out the word cancellation because it could be ambiguous. Will all bets or winnings be cancelled? This is what players might be thinking. Even money bets ie red/black or odd/even should not count but bets on single numbers could while the same can be said of banker/player in baccarat but bets on tie may count. So even if you mention even bets it is not clear just exactly what you are referring to.
     
  8. Sep 30, 2006
  9. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Phynqster,

    So the term is now even money offsetting bets, right?
     
  10. Sep 30, 2006
  11. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Have not decided on a set term. I hate pointing out all of the bets, because they only people who do that are the abusers anyway who ruin it for all. I want players playing craps, roulette, baccarat, sic bo, and such, but when you start saying no odd/even black/red high/low it becomes even more confusing to customers who just want to play. That was why I was thinking the "cancellation even money bets" because they only people who would really read into that are the bonus abusers.
     
  12. Sep 30, 2006
  13. WAYLANDER

    WAYLANDER Full Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Garden buildings installer S/E / Poker
    Location:
    uk
    Hows about something along the lines of....

    Bets placed to cover all outcome's do not count towards wagering

    Or because of the 0 and the red/black thing in roulette....

    Bets placed that cover more than 95% of possible results do not count towards wagering requirements

    It doesnt use any complicated gambling words, so i would think that most people new to the casino world would understand what that meant.

    WAYLANDER
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sep 30, 2006
  15. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Waylander,
    I like your thought's but you need to realize that your explanation works on 95% of the general public, but the problem is the 5% who would say" on roulette because you could bet on every single number and all of the corners and splits and such, by me betting on both red and black, that does not cover 95% of all possibilites." You must remember these 5% look for a comma out of place just to manipulate the bonus. You think I gest, but in the real worl it is an everyday occurance.
     
  16. Sep 30, 2006
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Spell it out.

    Best to spell it out as well as use a phrase such as "wagers that cover all outcomes etc". Any covering phrase would have the "abusers" looking for the loophole, and spelling out the bets will not help the abusers as they know them anyway, and genuine players will see plainly what is meant by "abusive wagering", rather than them believing it covers normal clever wagering, such as small stakes and strategy.

    Roulette is the most complicated game to cater for, as there are many ways to hedge all outcomes, however, the house edge never falls much below 2% (French rules), so it would be enough to ensure the WR are enough to prevent their being any overall +EV in abusive wagering.

    The other type of wagering that has recently become "abusive" is making large high risk bets with the whole balance on a near 50/50 outcome, and then completing WR more conservatively if this wager is won.

    One idea I have seen is a flexible WR term, such as "WR is nn x D+B OR 100x the amount of your maximum bet". This ensures that the leverage gained by making one big winning bet to start with is lost, as it causes the second term to dominate the WR of the resulting balance.

    You must remember that casinos are in business to make a profit, and players are out to WIN!!

    Another idea is to run a different promotion each month, thus making it harder for the websites to keep a blow by blow guide to beating the bonus up to date. Software choice is also a factor, it should make it easy for players to follow the progress of their progress towards completing a promotion, and prevent players from placing invalid wagers from the outset.
    The aim should be to never have to be in the position of confiscating a player's winnings, with a worst case scenario of confiscating a bonus if it was improperly applied for and letting the player keep their deposit and winnings (although the option to close the account, or ban more bonuses, afterwards is always there).
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sep 30, 2006
  19. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Great post, I love your thoughts and insights. We have never bumped heads so to speak in the forums, but your posts are usually enlightening.
    Isn't it sad that we even have to discuss things like this, but if you do not cover all basses, someone sneaks in.
     
  20. Sep 30, 2006
  21. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    Phyngster, good to see you back in the saddle again. Great challenges don't appear to throw you! Best of luck at Shark:D

    The quandry of allowing play on zero expectation games such as roulette may be the very reason why most casinos exclude them from bonus play. Roulette and similar games might require their own posted rules which can then be referred to in bonus offers.
     

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