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Tax taken out of wins??

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Nifty29, Feb 2, 2008.

    Feb 2, 2008
  1. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Hiya all

    I started playing at worldwinner.com lately as I love the puzzle games etc and have done alright, but noticed my prizes werent as advertised - apparently they have been taking out 30% for tax...WTF?? Im not even a US resident!

    Ive been told by them that I have to mail some form etc to the IRS with 27 forms of ID all signed by our Prime Minister etc etc and the IRS will send me a tax ID - then I may be able to stop the tax being taken out if I also submit some other form but I have to wait to get my tax ID.

    It just seems stupid - why would I pay tax when Im not a US citizen?

    Anyone have any advice? At present they have over $500 of mine in winnings :mad:

    (Note to MAX - sorry i know this isnt strictly a casino but I felt it wouldnt get a response in the lower forums)
     
  2. Feb 2, 2008
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    Weird. Even if you HAD to pay taxes on winnings, $500 isn't even enough to trip the alarm. :what:
     
  4. Feb 2, 2008
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Those IRS thieves pull the same stunt with tourists who come to Vegas, however at least there it only applies to payouts over a certain amount PER GAME of around $1000. The tax can be reclaimed by a simpler route, however, why is it being taken in the first place, as surely it is illegal to operate a gambling site from the US, and if this is a SKILL COMPETITION site, then surely no tax is due anyway, as it is just like sending in a prize crossword to the local newspaper (or are the IRS even bigger thieves than our own UK Inland Revenue;) )
     
  6. Feb 2, 2008
  7. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'll tone it down a little, but you should tell them to go take a long walk off a short pier.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Section 2.3 of their T&C:

    Since it's 2008, I'm sure it's not "a given year", as long as this isn't a cashout from 2007.
     
  8. Feb 2, 2008
  9. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I dont get the whole idea - I asked them to stop deducting the 30% as I wont be filing a US tax return, but their response was something like 'Worldwinner is not qualified to give tax advice - please enlist the help of a registered tax agent for any queries of this nature'

    Yeah. Right. Im gonna fly over to the States and meet with a tax agent.

    This is what is stated in my account info:

    Last year, they ripped me off for about $550 and this year Im already out of pocket about $150 - and if I dont get myself a tax id number and deal back and forth with the IRS then I wont ever see it again.

    I think VWM's point is valid too...being games of skill they shouldnt be taxed anyway, after all it isnt gambling is it??

    Its a shame because the games are great etc but I cant stand having 30% of my winnings held all the time.

    According to their own terms, it is MY responsibility to organise my tax and legal obligations so why are THEY taking it upon themselves to do it.
     
  10. Feb 2, 2008
  11. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm confused here. What's different between WW and Pogo? I don't see Pogo withholding any taxes for their players' $4999 wins. :rolleyes:

    btw - Where's the proof that they actually pay the IRS the money they claim to withhold?
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Feb 2, 2008
  13. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You owe US taxes on any US source income, unless there is a provision in the Australia-US double taxation treaty that makes it exempt.


    By the sound of it is, it is not a gambling site. Any income, including gambling wins from US sources is subject to federal income tax unless specifically exempted. If you are a US resident and win the Nobel Prize, you get taxed as well.

    It is unlikely that most tourists would file a tax return voluntarily, hence the requirement to withhold 30% of larger wins. If the tax laws were properly enforced in Vegas, including smaller wins that don't generate paperwork, the casinos would fold in a week.


    Because they are required by law to withhold tax to ensure that you don't just forget about your tax obligations in the US.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Feb 2, 2008
  15. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Good point.

    I guess if I filed a tax return I would find out......
     
  16. Feb 2, 2008
  17. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I think you will find that it is called an "income tax", not a gambling tax, and applies to all kinds of income.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Feb 2, 2008
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Thanks Grandmaster.

    I believe there is an exemption - but I have to go through all the hoops and paperwork to have any chance of claiming it.

    Wouldnt the site be able to ascertain the exemptions and not deduct tax from players from those countries? I found the info fairly easily on the IRS site.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  20. Feb 2, 2008
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    This is directly from Pogo's T&C:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    So, what makes them different than WW? It's not like Pogo is some clip shop. Their parent company is EA Sports, a multi-billion $ company...the same as WW:

    Why in the world WW forces the player to literally "claim" these winnings before cashing out and Pogo doesn't is beyond me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Feb 2, 2008
  23. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I dont get it either winbig :what:

    I do know that Im not allowed to play for cash at Pogo for some reason - which is odd considering they are owned by the same people and offer pretty much the same thing.

    Im going to ask them to refund all my deductions based on the fact I wouldnt have to pay tax at all on that level of income, but I have a better chance of winning the US election in November.....
     
  24. Feb 2, 2008
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What I found out about Vegas, not that I won enough to try it, was that non-US residents could claim a refund by filling in some kind of form available through their local US Embassy, and the IRS would send them the deducted money. Also, if you had your passport with you at the time, the casino would pay the winnings gross anyway, as they could see you were not a local. This is something an online site cannot do, however, one form of attack would be to tell them that you HAVE sought independent tax advice, which was to get them to pay you back the 30% withhold for it to be declared on a local tax return. If there is a tax agreement between the two countries, this should not be a problem.

    I also noticed this:-

    And this makes me think they don't intend that non-US residents to play there at all, hence all these problems when a non-US resident does slip through.

    Not only are we lucky Brits not charged tax on gambling wins, but we don't get taxed on competitions such as this either, provided we are not "professional compers", in the same way that it is possible for those who brag about being "professional gamblers" could suddenly find the Inland Revenue after them.
     
    1 person likes this.

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