Swiss casino not paying because of apparently "violation of terms and conditions"

Jbedde73

Dormant account
Joined
May 25, 2011
Location
Belgium
Hello there,

This is my situation. I claimed a 300% bonus at Swiss Casino (100+300 bonus). I played some blackjack, (single hand) obviously, because playing with multihand would be a violation of their terms. Anyway, i played blackjack (which has a restriction of a max bet of 100 euros).... I made a reasonalbe profit, wagered on table poker and slots. Emailed Swiss casino asking whether i have fulfilled all wagering requirements. They say yes and than i made a withdrawal request. Sended in the documents to verify my account. Everything gets verified untill they deny to pay me, because i have apparently violated their terms.

This is what they emailed:

11.6 Your use of any real money bonuses is subject to Our review for irregular playing patterns. To ensure fair gaming, We consider low margin, equal, zero bets or hedge betting to be irregular gaming for the use of bonuses. Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to:



(i) placing single or multiple bets on any single game that sums over the value of seventy percent or more of the bonus credited with the intention of clearing the bonus until the release requirements have been met;

(ii) if We suspect you have attempted to use a bonus contrary to the spirit of the Promotional offering;

(iii) if We suspect that you have sought to deviously profit from a bonus offered by Us in good faith (for example, the acceptance of a bonus, wagering the minimum amount and immediately withdrawing the funds. In the event that we deem that an irregular playing pattern has taken place, We reserve the right to prevent you from cashing out Account funds and/or withhold any of Your winnings derived from Your use of the bonus.”

ok... commenting on their terms (i), apparently they have sent me a screenshot of hands that i played at blackjack. Apparently i have played blackjack placing even up to 200 euros. (first of all, i can't imagine that, because the maxbet is 100 euros) And the 70% rule of them when applied to me is: 210 euros (70% of 300 euro bonus).

term (ii)... the spirit of their use...that can be interpreted so broadly that in any event if a player wins, than all their money can get confiscated. So in my opinion a bogus term!

term (iii)... Every player that plays at a casino and get a bonus is always trying to gamble and hope to get some profit out of it. Why else play at casino??? I mean, it is not like very exciting to lose money everytime if you play at a casino. Further more. At playtech (in this case Swiss casino) there is no way that you can check how much you have wagered. So i honestly do not believe, that i have exactly wagered precisely their WR and than made a withdrawal. As mentioned, i played (a lot), don't ask me how much... emailed them asking whether i have fulfilled all wageringrequirments. They say in that email: yes you have wagered everything and it is okay to make a withdrawal.

So actually when they email this, they actually expect that you don't make a withdrawal and lose all your money or what??? Anyway, I had a total pending withdrawal of 1.1k, but they only returned my deposit. Do you guys think i have any chance in this matter, getting everything back?

Thanks for reading!

Jos
ps. below the screen they sent me

Swisscasino.png
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Well its obvious you were using blackjack to build up your balance and grinding away on slots and tables. Its what the casino is attempting to prevent.

However, what you did wasnt against the rules.

Spirit of the bonus is total crap and doesn't hold water.

IMO its a case of "pay the player"
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
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Location
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I'm curious how you were able to bet more than 100 euros :what:
Do you have an access to game history? If yes, just make a screenshot and post it here.
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
Apparently i have played blackjack placing even up to 200 euros. (first of all, i can't imagine that, because the maxbet is 100 euros) And the 70% rule of them when applied to me is: 210 euros (70% of 300 euro bonus).
I haven't played at Swiss in a long time, but as it runs on Playtech software, most have a range of limits to choose from like william hill's blackjack has 0.50 - 30, 2 - 100, 5 - 300, 10 - 500.

I wonder if you chose a higher limit blackjack table which allowed you to bet 200?
 

DiamondGeezer

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PABaccred
PABnoaccred
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May 13, 2007
Location
NOT Pennsylvania!!!
(iii) if We suspect that you have sought to deviously profit from a bonus offered by Us in good faith (for example, the acceptance of a bonus, wagering the minimum amount and immediately withdrawing the funds. In the event that we deem that an irregular playing pattern has taken place, We reserve the right to prevent you from cashing out Account funds and/or withhold any of Your winnings derived from Your use of the bonus.”
If the player has ground out on say 0.45 slot spins then I can see why the casino could argue an irregular playing pattern has occurred.

If you play a bonus as aggressively as this going so close to the 70% rule before grinding can you really be surprised the casino looks to the fine print of the terms and conditions?
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Complain to GRA,
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
. You should get paid.

BTW from their about us:
Casino Swiss is owned by iGlobalMedia Entertainment Limited and managed by Global Gaming Net (GGN) one of the oldest and most respected management companies involved in the online gaming industry today.

That is a subsidiary of ElectraWorks Limited which in turn is Partygaming.

And its obvious that the 200 bets are either doubles or splits (dealer face-up card 6 at both) and the 150 he took insurance (dealer face-up card A).

Edit: WPTCasino which recently had a warning posted is also operated by ElectraWorks Limited. 2nd edit link:http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...424-wpt-casino-no-pay-spirit-bonus-terms.html Note that the terms are identical.
 

SlotMonster

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Then casino should remove this stupid "spirit of the bonus" rule and pay the player in full IMO.
 

Jbedde73

Dormant account
Joined
May 25, 2011
Location
Belgium
Thanks for the reply guys. I think i might have doubled or splitted. That could explain the 200 euro bets. But i cannot seem to find my own playing history.

ok, that 'irregular gameplay' I find it really hard to understand. If you looked closely at the printscreen they had sent me, you guys should understand i had every risk to lose everything. I don't see them to email me and say: well.. you shouldn't have played like that, you get a refund back.

The reason I play at a casino is try to win some money. I think everyone here enjoys playing at a casino when they win some money. I don't think anyone would be happy should they lose all the time. Some times you get lucky and win some and sometimes you got bac luck, you'll lose some.

And I find it personally very reasonable to wager with 'little' amount of money, since i had the luck to build up my balance?!?!?!.. I think it is very stupid to play with high risk all the time. That is a 100% lose situation.

Come on guys, if you guys spin on a slot with 20 euros (just an example), and you guys still have to wager (lets say) 40k, don't tell me you'll keep on spinning with 20 euros, when you've hitted something big?! The only NOT 'irregular playing pattern' for a casino is, when a player loses all his money! That's it.

It is just too vague the 'irregular playing pattern'. They should just have made a 25% maxbet or a 30% maxbet.

I mean, the BJ i played had a maxbet of 100 euro's. That alone is already very hard to build up a balance with.

Anyway i am still of the opinion, that i haven't break any term and condition at their casino. The worst thing is, they don't respond to my emails anymore.

Jos
 

Jbedde73

Dormant account
Joined
May 25, 2011
Location
Belgium
Thanks guys,

I'll try to complain then... I will keep you guys updated!

Much appreciated for the help!

Cheers,

Jos
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
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Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
ok they dont like the op's play and it is against what they term 'spirit of the bonus' but so bloody what? they may stop offering bonuses to him in future but it is imperative that they pay him this time as i dont really see him breaking any t's ancs. swiss casino should blame themselves for the vagueness of the terms.
 

DiamondGeezer

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
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Joined
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Location
NOT Pennsylvania!!!
Come on guys, if you guys spin on a slot with 20 euros (just an example), and you guys still have to wager (lets say) 40k, don't tell me you'll keep on spinning with 20 euros, when you've hitted something big?! The only NOT 'irregular playing pattern' for a casino is, when a player loses all his money! That's it.

It is just too vague the 'irregular playing pattern'. They should just have made a 25% maxbet or a 30% maxbet.


Anyway i am still of the opinion, that i haven't break any term and condition at their casino. The worst thing is, they don't respond to my emails anymore.

Jos
You are ofcourse right but you have sailed extremely close to the wind on this one.

I hope you get paid but by playing to the EXACT letter of the terms you can't be surprised they are looking to the terms to get out of it.
 

spin2win

Dormant account
Joined
May 30, 2011
Location
Germany
You are ofcourse right but you have sailed extremely close to the wind on this one.

I hope you get paid but by playing to the EXACT letter of the terms you can't be surprised they are looking to the terms to get out of it.
IMO the casino should be listed as not trustworthy/rogue then. It does not matter if he played to the exact letter of the terms, he fulfilled them and hence should be paid. If the casinos do not want players to do this, they should simply alter their bonus terms.
Many players are not playing to the EXACT letter of the terms, therefore the casino makes enough profit nevertheless.
 

Temperance Fox

New Member
PABnononaccred
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Aug 22, 2010
Location
Nowhere
My experience: you have to be careful playing at that group's casinos.When you win, there's always, always something wrong.....
I agree with spin2win
Hope best things for you
 

FreeDomme

Banned User
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Location
Way out west, way way out.
Clearly a case to pay the player.

With all of the marginalized US facing operations this may be a good time to bring the hammer down on 'squishy' rules (everywhere) and clean house.

Clearly rogue imo.

(iii) if We suspect that you have sought to deviously profit
 
Last edited:

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
...use a bonus contrary to the spirit of the Promotional offering
This whole "spirit" of a bonus thing is a joke. From the casino's side, the bonus is purely offerred to get a player to deposit money with a view to losing it. It's not a gift - it's an incentive - and "spirit" doesn't play a part in incentivisation.

If a casino chooses to offer a bonus then they take the risks associated with that type of promotional marketing and if the player plays within the terms, all's fair IMO.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
So this must be the 3rd? Pay the player post I've participated in. How do these things get escalated if a complaint isn't filed?
Well he said that he will compain to GRA. At least they used to rule in the players favour in similar cases and in a reasonable time (<1 month).

PAB would also have been a good option if the casino would discuss complaints with 3rd parties.
 

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