Svengu vs Bitstarz

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samdog21

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
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jacksonspoint ontario canada
They try to intice me back because now they have etransfer. For canadians but I need the first guniepig from canada try to withdraw with etransfer and post it then maybe I will give them a shot
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Location
Saltirelandia
... any casino from direx will find anyway not pay. .... Scammers.

I've spent the last several months settling a number of cases with the Direx NV guys and I can say without hesitation that you are quite mistaken.

No doubt they have had a shady past in terms of player complaints being woefully mishandled but they've worked hard to make amends and these days their team are some of the most cooperative and responsive people I deal with.

And yes they pay, my cases in the last 90-120 days with them probably ring up at about 1/4 million paid to players, give or take.
 
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maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
FTR I've seen the casino's evidence on this case and while we are not finished discussing that I am also not happy to let the current thread title stand as is.

Original title was: "Bitstarz.com - confiscated winnings, duplicate accounts"
 

Nordog

Experienced Member
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Nov 15, 2018
Location
Norge
If im to judge by their representant replying to complaints, id say its one of the groups that atleast try their best to both explain and solve problems activly on the forum. Even if i dont always agree with hombert, atleast he tells it as it is and dont avoid uncomfortable questions. Thats something i personally respect and it gains my trust.
 

Svengu

Newbie member
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Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
Hi, just an update to this.

There was an unfortunate misunderstanding and the casino is not to blame. It was an extended family member that does indeed have family in the UK (on his fathers side) , that have misused details of mine. I take full responsibility of this young mans actions and hope bitstarz can accept mine and his apologies.
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Hi Sven,

No need to apologize as you're a victim here as well. But I very much appreciate you reaching out and that we got an answer to the question.

In all of this as well, I fully understand your frustration too, and hope that you won't have to deal with this again.

Once more, I appreciate you coming here to set everything straight.

Olle
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Hi @samdog21,

Just to point something out as well.

Not all Direx N.V are own by the same people. We (including others on Direx N.V) are independent whitelabels, and although some have multiple brands, BitStarz only has one, and is separate from other casinos using the Softswiss platform. We do not have the same owners, staff or management. So in other words, I'd like to kindly ask to be only judged on the basis of what BitStarz does, as that's what I can take responsibility for (and will).

But to lump us together with other casinos using the same label who is totally separate and has nothing to do with the way we run things, I'd appreciate if we could refrain from that.

So, if you have anything you wish to bring up, or if there is something you're not happy with or think we can do better. I'm very happy to discuss any of that with you, anytime :)

Olle
 

Nordog

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
Norge
Hope the case was solved. If he was a victim of " identity theft", he should get his winnings if its proven within reasonable doubt. So im kinda curious on how such a case is dealt with in general.
 

chiya

Senior Member
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Nov 7, 2012
Location
Earth
How is he supposed to prove that there was an identity theft? Especially given its "within the family".

Unfortunate situation for him no doubt though.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Saltirelandia
As of late this afternoon I feel that we have taken this case to its conclusion: I support the casino's decision against this player and reject the player's complaint against the casino.

FTR the casino was able to provide ample evidence to support their position, the player provided none to support theirs. And before anyone claims that there could be no evidence I respectfully remind everyone that I am well aware of the difficulties the parties to such a dispute may encounter. In this case I made a point, repeatedly, of casting the net very wide so that anything of relevance could be submitted. If at the end of that extended process there is nothing on offer I have no option but to proceed as is.

My guiding principle with PABs is to decide a case on the basis of available evidence. If a party to the complaint offers nothing but unsubstantiated claims then they are on very shaky ground to begin with. If the other party provides ample evidence to the contrary then it's not hard to see where the decision is headed. However emotional the appeal decisions must be based on the actual evidence and the evidence here strongly supports the casino. So be it.

Since the PAB is now closed the OP is welcome to make his final comments here if he so wishes. However if this descends into a howling poo-flinging exercise based on hearsay and unsubstantiated opinions I will happily stick a fork in it.
 
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Hydr0

cyber chill
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Oct 24, 2012
Location
OZ
No need to apologize as you're a victim here as well.

Hi Olle,

I understand that the PAB has been completed, and that Max has made a final decision on this case (based on all available evidence).

I’m a little curious however as to why a reasonable compromise couldn’t have been reached between Bitstarz and the OP, as opposed to an ‘all or nothing’ outcome; especially since you acknowledge that the OP is also a victim here, and in truth didn’t do anything wrong.

Cheers
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
I’d guess because although he is a victim, his loss is not an error of the other victim. If they’re refunded his deposit, that’s putting him back where he was before the problem. Not ideal, but certainly fair.
 

Je Dc

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Location
Surrey
They try to intice me back because now they have etransfer. For canadians but I need the first guniepig from canada try to withdraw with etransfer and post it then maybe I will give them a shot
I am the test subject, I tried to withdraw e-transfer and it’s not what I expected, e transfer from anywhere in Canada you get the email 1 minute to 30 mins MAX. bitstarz took 22 hrs. I’ve tried to withdraw at GUTS via muchbetter then muchbetter to etransfer its the same took 22 hrs. I have yet to see a casino that pays e transfer with the same speed as we deposit our money. But again, I have nothing against bitstarz, I’m glad they have that option Etransfer 22hrs is better than 2-3 banking days of bank transfer. My buddy tried to play BTC and won. Approval is lightning fast 10-20 mins max, then we go to the BITCOIN ATM to cash it out it took an hour for confirmations a total time of 1.5 hrs to convert to real cash
 

Svengu

Newbie member
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Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
Hi,

I have not responded to this yet, as I was quite in shock after being treated what felt like a bit unfair, to say the least. I still do not understand Max's statement
the player provided none to support theirs
. I sent what I had and tried my best to explain that BitStarz had to provide up-to-date player serverlogs (ip/chat etc) for this other account to support my evidence, but neither BitStarz or Max seemed like they wanted to listen.

I understand of course that Max can only look at the evidence that BitStarz provided. I have explained what happened, but it was a lost battle from the beginning from the start when BitStarz cancelled withdrawal and told me to "use my old account" from 2016. I even got told in the PAB process, that I was defenitly not a victim - BitStarz was. They were the victim that were going to shoulder the economic loss. How dare I...and so on.

So , all in all a very confusing, stressing and totally unwanted experience.

The reason I signed up with BitStarz last month was that I had heard that they seemed to be one of the best bitcoin casino. I also hadn't tried Direx NV casinos, so also signed up at GoldenStar the same day. Luckily I didn't make it to deposit my bitcoins before all this happened , I only got to try with the card. I was of course satisfied when I was up around 4000 EUR and made the 3600 (+200 in account) withdrawal.

But ,then it all went like talking to a wall (Chris/James support) and rest is history. I was a fraud that abused their welcome bonus - *confused*. I lost the first deposit.

Anyway, this story have escalated to more casinos and I am sure I will be need to contact all casinos around to check if theres a UK account using similar details as mine registered.

In addition to all I did not know they don't have a Danish license. And now I can also see BitStarz have been
Accredited. Oh well, the irony. =)
Have a nice weekend!
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I understand of course that Max can only look at the evidence that BitStarz provided. ...

Nice try. I said I'd look at all the evidence presented. You presented none, just your written claim to have been the victim of identity theft.

I asked you several times to present something, anything, to support your claims. After all this was apparently a family member who went to some lengths to fake your identification and commit fraud with it. You said you had nothing to offer and repeated that at least twice.

So, with nothing whatsoever to support your claims I was left to make a decision based on the evidence that was available, namely what I'd received from Bitstarz in support of their case. And their evidence against you was good.

Several times throughout this process you've tried to twist this around to sound as if you were railroaded or cheated or somehow mistreated. For someone with sweeping claims -- fairly incredulous ones at that -- and zero evidence to offer that's a bit much.

Case closed, and thread closed because you're obviously going to keep doing this.
 
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