Svengu vs Bitstarz

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Svengu

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
I have a somewhat special situation with Bitstarz, to say the least.

It can seem like this is a standard "I tried to scam the casino using the welcome bonus on duplicate accounts" , but please read through, - you will see that the whole thing does not make any sense.

A couple of days ago I signed up on 2 Direx N.V. casinos , Bitstarz (and Golden Star), where I deposited and played. I checked that they accept players from Denmark, which they do.
I deposited 80 EUR with the welcome bonus, that I lost.

On my second deposit of 100 EUR started to get some winnings, and made an withdrawal of EUR 2000 .I got an email asking for the verification documents, which I provided instantly.
The documents (address, my (danish drivers license) ID, bank etc.) was all approved by Bitstarz.

I later cancelled the withdrawal and ended up winning more, and after withrawing and cancel a couple of time I withdrawed in total EUR 3600, and kept 200 EUR to play more with.

Now this is when the nightmare starts.

The account was closed in the middle of playing, and I got an email from support stating that I play using 2 accounts, and have used the welcome bonus 2 times.

As evidence they send an emailaddress and a fake ID issued in the UK. It clearly states an UK postal address on this picture they sent.

Now, the fact is that I live in Denmark, it's not my email , and I have not registered an account in the UK that I play with.

Even though IF the fact were that I lived in the UK and in some way had an account, I would still not be able to play on BitStarz as stated in their T&C. 3.7

"If you are a player from Spain, Sweden, France, the UK, The Netherlands, Dutch West Indies and Curacao, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins."

I have asked them to send all the details for the supposed active second account, but they refuse to cooperate,
and are threatening me, with that I should withdraw 100 EUR or I will loose them as well.

Chris from Bitstarz:
"For the last time, make the withdrawal of the €100 or your account will be closed down with the funds on it.

Regards
Chris
"

They falsely accuse me of playing on duplicate accounts using the same danish IP address,
which I have asked for proof of, but they refuse to send this.

James from Bitstarz:
"Both accounts share the same the same IP address which is a Danish one, not a British one.
In any case as my colleague already said, this case will not be discussed any further
and please request a withdrawal for the 100 EUR so we can close the account.

James
Support Hero
"


I have also asked for logs when "I" have been logged in on this other account, dates and times.
When was it registered ? The last time it was used, and by whom? They do not want to send anything I ask for, and I am in shock over the whole situation.
This is a behaviour I have never encountered before from a casino.

I refer to their T&C 6.3
"In the event of any dispute, you agree that the records of the server shall act as the final authority in determining the outcome of any claim."

As they don't want to provide records of the duplicate UK account, the dispute is only looked at from their part.

If looking further at the T&C's it says that only one account per IP, household and PC is allowed.
In this situation it doesn't add up , they do not wish to cooperate, and I am left frustrated and sad that people can be like this.

Thankful for any suggestions.
 

samdog21

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
PABnoaccred2
MM
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
jacksonspoint ontario canada
And just think bitzstarz is about to become accredited any casino from direx will find anyway not pay. I got rickover 2 times by titstarz rep comes here a couple months ago nice and nice for a couple days wont be long and back in the greyzone. Scammers.
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Hi guys,

You'll have to forgive me, I'm on holiday, so I'm a bit slow at replying here.

If two players are using the same IP address, it's clearly not a reason to confiscate someone's winning
and close the account down.

When it comes to your case, there are two accounts in your name and there's an ID uploaded on both
of these accounts that are in your name. It's the same name and date of birth and the picture is of
the same person (not the same photo, however).

I'm happy to provide proof of this here but I don't wish to share your picture and name publicly here without
your permission.

When I see the evidence stated above, where we have two accounts and ID of the same person (matching once
more with full name, date of birth and picture) it's very hard for me to interpret it other than it's a person with two
accounts. Credit card picture with full name on it has been uploaded to both accounts as well.

This would be the reason why the winnings were removed and you were left with the original deposit, not that
you're in Denmark or any other reason. I'd appreciate if you guys at CasinoMeister would be able to tell
me how to go forward so we can lay everything out on the table and we can prove that we acted in line
with our terms.

Regards,

Olle
 

Svengu

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
Hi Olle.

Thanks for taking time replying. Have you looked at the address on the picture you refer to? (UK) Also, why dont you want to send the requested logs for this other account? When was it created, what IP (James says without hesitating that its using the same Danish IP), when was it logged in?

If someone use my name and photo in the UK, and also magically uses my own IP address, then I am in deeper trouble in general, but lets stick to the original matter.

Please answer - How can an account be registered and played with in the UK, when you do not allow players from the UK (when reading your T&C)

Also, all my KYC documents was approved. (attached)

You must understand, that I am not happy with having to seek help elsewhere for this matter. I dont want to use precious time to prove that I am not a bonus hunter, that you indirect accusing me of. Its just so fishy the whole situation. When you (as in the support) refuse to cooperate, and having the casino support threatening me at the same time - "withdraw your 100 EUR or we close down the account with the funds in it" - Is that classified as being a "good" casino?
 

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Svengu

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
Further to the above, please find the picture Olle is refering to attached to this post. I got this from the support.

So, the main question is ; How can 2 accounts be created and played with at the same time, from 2 different countries, using the same IP, as that is what you and James are implying?

And, as a reminder, Bitstarz T&C. 3.7

"If you are a player from Spain, Sweden, France, the UK, The Netherlands, Dutch West Indies and Curacao, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins."

**snipped the personal information**
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Hello,

Max Drayman here, I handle the complaints side of things at Casinomeister.com. Our service is called Player ArBitration, or PAB for short.

If you are interested -- or you feel it becomes necessary -- we can look into this for you. Our process starts here: Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

Regards,
Max Drayman
Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, Casinomeister.com
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Hi there,

So, first of all it might be good to establish a few things.

Did you ever live in the UK, and had a UK ID and bank account? If that's the case it would give you an opportunity to check your bank statements from years back and see if you ever made any transactions to BitStarz. As for us not allowing UK players, that's absolutely the case, however your UK account was opened years ago when we didn't enforce the UK IP block that we do now.

As for the login, yes they have logged in from the same city in Denmark (but not exactly the same IP) however last login was also a couple of years back. As this is a city of 12 000 people, and there's logins from this city on both these accounts (UK and Danish Registered one), I also believe that is strong support for you using both accounts (even though the old UK account hasn't been used in years).

Olle
 

Lobo

Repeated violations of rule 1.18 - being a PITA
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Location
Scandinavia
(even though the old UK account hasn't been used in years).
Olle
So you are confiscating this player winnings due to an account that has not been used in years... ?
I would not call this "bonus abuse" of any sort - even tho OP really did create that account years ago (but forgot he had one).

The same thing happend to me at Unibet. I created an account. Account got locked by Unibet after a few days asking me about an other account I created 5 years ago. They then closed that old account and I could continue using the new one. No hassle, no confiscation of balance/winnings.
 

Svengu

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Location
Denmark
Hi Max, many thanks, I have done that already, but not sure it was done i the right way. Please let me know if you need something else.

Bitstarz, as stated before I do not live or have lived in the UK, I live in Denmark, please see my KYC documents.

James from your support stated that "Both accounts share the same the same IP address".

You closed my account and took my winnings with the reason that I use 2 accounts and the welcome bonus 2 times. I actually lost the welcome bonus.

Its not about the money at all, but the fact that I have no idea how this can happen on any serious casino. And also because of the way I was treated and accused, and threatened with the "do this or we do that" attitude.
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
So you are confiscating this player winnings due to an account that has not been used in years... ?
I would not call this "bonus abuse" of any sort - even tho OP really did create that account years ago (but forgot he had one).

The same thing happend to me at Unibet. I created an account. Account got locked by Unibet after a few days asking me about an other account I created 5 years ago. They then closed that old account and I could continue using the new one. No hassle, no confiscation of balance/winnings.


Hi there,

I don't think abuse is the correct word, but as the player has claimed the welcome offer on both accounts (and other bonuses) it still remains as a breach of the one account per person rule.

Olle
 

Lobo

Repeated violations of rule 1.18 - being a PITA
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Location
Scandinavia
Hi there,

I don't think abuse is the correct word, but as the player has claimed the welcome offer on both accounts (and other bonuses) it still remains as a breach of the one account per person rule.

Olle
If there were days or weeks between the use of the accounts, I could have understood your decision. But not here - with an account that has been dormant for years.
You are just glad OP is back playing and spending his money, right? (but damn, he won).

115000
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Hi Max, many thanks, I have done that already, but not sure it was done i the right way. Please let me know if you need something else.

Bitstarz, as stated before I do not live or have lived in the UK, I live in Denmark, please see my KYC documents.

James from your support stated that "Both accounts share the same the same IP address".

You closed my account and took my winnings with the reason that I use 2 accounts and the welcome bonus 2 times. I actually lost the welcome bonus.

Its not about the money at all, but the fact that I have no idea how this can happen on any serious casino. And also because of the way I was treated and accused, and threatened with the "do this or we do that" attitude.


Hi there,

Yes, we've seen your KYC documents, but we have two accounts here, and as we're talking about an older account here, I'm asking if you've lived in the UK in the past, as that could explain you used to have an account you forgot about.

Now, I think it's very strange why someone would use your identity to create fake UK ID's bank cards and proof of address. That the person in question also able to login from the same small city in Denmark that you live in just sounds as a big coincidence if you ask me. We might be wrong of course, but considering all the evidence here, it looks very strange.

Once more, I recommend we'll go through the PAB as that will give this some structure and we can both lay out all the evidence in an organized fashion and I'm very happy to let CasinoMeister be the middle man here to make sure everything is handled fairly.

Olle
 

Nordog

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Location
Norge
A good solution for such cases, where there was no intent but more an accident would be to remove half of winning if the bonus was 100% or give him 25% of winning if the bonus was 200%.that way the bonus portion he got by accident is compensated and you would have a happy customer aswell
 

Borgie

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
Hi Max, many thanks, I have done that already, but not sure it was done i the right way. Please let me know if you need something else.

Bitstarz, as stated before I do not live or have lived in the UK, I live in Denmark, please see my KYC documents.

James from your support stated that "Both accounts share the same the same IP address".

You closed my account and took my winnings with the reason that I use 2 accounts and the welcome bonus 2 times. I actually lost the welcome bonus.

Its not about the money at all, but the fact that I have no idea how this can happen on any serious casino. And also because of the way I was treated and accused, and threatened with the "do this or we do that" attitude.

If you have filed a PAB then you are not allowed to post on the subect at all in the forum - if you need Max to confirm stuff then PM him
 
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