SUSPENSION OF eCOGRA SEALS

[RobWin]

So an operator in a good jurisdiction, which already has 100% of player balances covered, would be required to cover it again? How does that make it safer?

It makes it safer and faster for the player to get their funds because the "Surety Bond" or whatever you want to call it can be liquidated within a two week period whereas Gibraltar or whomever and MG and the Casino may negotiate this out for months before resolve is agreed upon...

Yes, the operator needs to protect player balances. That is not in question at all. The only issue in question is who should hold the money.

Lloyd's of London would be my first choice...

And since eCOGRA dont seem to be approving sports betting operations, I dont see why it should be them

90% or more of the MG casinos and others that eCOGRA issue Seal Certification for don't offer Sports Betting anyway...and neither did Casino Action Group...the basis of this thread...

It either needs to be done by the jurisdictions, as part of the ongoing due diligence into the operation (Malta, UK, Alderney all do this), or there needs to be an organisation that accepts non RNG based gaming sites like sports betting as well, which will create an infrastructure to manage the balances. Its no good covering just casino, poker and bingo. The entire industry needs to be covered.

One problem at a time you know, small steps first, back to the reason of the thread...Casino Action gets Seals Suspended...

And I dont think it should be a bond or a policy. If the melon hits the fan, it will take time for all the parties to agree to cash in the policy, and all the red tape gunk from the banks involved will delay players getting there money. Its easy : CASH. In a Bank account that earns interest. That can only be used to pay players in the event said melon hits said fan. Why make it more complicated than it really needs to be?

I believe I answered this in my first paragraph...

 

[c_note]

bonds v2

I still don't see why you want it issued as a bond or policy instead of cash on hand, secured to the benefit of the player.

What I want to see is all gaming operators put up security, in cash form, irrespective of their jurisdictions, gaming types, and memberships. eCogra caters to only a specific section of the market, so I personally do not believe they are the right people to do this for players.

Lets agree to disagree, makes life easier

 

[RobWin]

I still don't see why you want it issued as a bond or policy instead of cash on hand, secured to the benefit of the player.

What I want to see is all gaming operators put up security, in cash form, irrespective of their jurisdictions, gaming types, and memberships. eCogra caters to only a specific section of the market, so I personally do not believe they are the right people to do this for players.

Lets agree to disagree, makes life easier

Essentially that is exactly what the bond stands for and an independent company holds it...like I used in my example..."Lloyd's Of London"...as they would have no interest in the actual issue at hand other than with regards to the bond itself and what it stands for...

Most of the online casinos could not afford to actually put up cold hard cash in amounts enough that would insure the players properly but lets say they go thru "Lloyd's" and then this is possible because "Lloyd's" would be hedging their bet that the casino operator would not fold thus insuring the player accounts for more than the casino property itself could afford to do on their own...

I think that's the best I can do at explaining how this "Bond" issue would work...

 

[Roar]

I still don't see why you want it issued as a bond or policy instead of cash on hand, secured to the benefit of the player.

What I want to see is all gaming operators put up security, in cash form, irrespective of their jurisdictions, gaming types, and memberships. eCogra caters to only a specific section of the market, so I personally do not believe they are the right people to do this for players.

I think you may well be right that eCogra are NOT the right people ensuring online gaming fairness for players per se. In fact their lack of independence from the member casinos is surely a fatal flaw.

BUT it was the very absence of a properly constituted regulated regime governing the commercial affairs of various online gaming outlets that gave birth to eCogra in the first place (plus no doubt some marketing leverage for members wanting to claim "fair play here").

Having said that eCogra ought to have anticipated the Tusk (Casino Action) scenario a long long time ago and implemented procedures such as the lodgment of bonds et al thus ensuring compliance from members (even under duress).

The fact that eCogra have been left floundering in the wake of the Tusk (Casino Action) demise IMHO is a telling indictment on this organization.

They had no pre-plan of action or protocol other than to release some meek advice that a seal had been suspended? Good grief! They are a lamentable organization who have demonstrably failed to deliver on the reasons they claim to exist in the first place.

Bye bye eCogra. Players won't be any worse off without you.

.

 

[Mousey]

Well, eCogra or no eCogra, I'm still pissed off at Casino Action and whoever owns them (Tusk?) for not notifying players that they're going belly up. For no notification of steps to take to close accounts, what's going to happen to our personal and financial details, how to withdraw funds, how long such a thing may take, how it's going to happen, etc. There are still players out there who have absolutely no clue what has happened with this casino group.

And what if casino action survives this and they consolidate into maybe 1 casino, or merge w/another group. We're supposed to trust them with our money again after this fiasco?? Not me.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well, eCogra or no eCogra, I'm still pissed off at Casino Action and whoever owns them (Tusk?) for not notifying players that they're going belly up...

It's a double edged sword. The problem with letting your players know that there is a money problem is that it would exasperate the crisis causing a "run on the bank". I'm extrapolating here, but they may have been in discussions concerning getting bailed out financially somehow. Apparently, they were so screwed that no one wanted to touch them.

...We're supposed to trust them with our money again after this fiasco?? Not me.

Well, you can revisit this statement:

Hi All

Please accept our apologies for the delay in our response regarding this matter.

We have been in discussions with eCogra and these purely administrative issues will be resolved shortly. We had delayed posting as we thought this would have been resolved in 24hrs, but as I am sure most of you know these kind of things tend to take longer than you would expect...We are expecting our eCogra seals will be reinstated very soon, but in the meantime it is business as usual...

So a) Jon could have been in the dark about what was going down, b) he could have been genuinely optimistic that a plan was in the making, or c) he was clearing out his desk when the posting was made.

My guess would be "b", but still - to state that it was "business as usual" was a bit irresponsible. This was definitely not true - there was a bit too much sugar coating that might backfire on them if they try to get back into this business.

Hopefully you used a unique email address with them to track any funkified movements of assets (databases). And all of us will probably have to exercise a hell of a lot of patience awaiting word when players and affiliates can expect to be paid.

 

[Casinomeister]

One quick last comment - it's not just players and affiliates that are screwed here, there are a number of good people out of work. They're supposed to be providing for their families. Hopefully some of you can back up and look at the whole picture instead of being focused primarily with the player.

 

[Simmo!]

It's a double edged sword. The problem with letting your players know that there is a money problem is that it would exasperate the crisis causing a "run on the bank".

Exactly what happened to Northern Rock in the UK when people became aware there was a problem. It made a manageable problem unmanageable.

I like the "Bond" idea - but it should be the licencees who manage that, and can you see RTG ever doing that? Er...

Casino Action have still sent nothing out to players: but then, when the owners decided on liquidation, they probably locked the doors, waved goodbye and gave up caring....or they are acting on advice. Just leave eCOGRA, Microgaming and everyone else to try and clear up the mess

No-one wins in these situations. But at least eCOGRA and Microgaming are there and players should (probably) get their money back. If this was anyone but MG or Wagerworks, it would probably be far more worrying for players. Everyone and his dog will criticise everyone else and their dogs irrespective of their roles in the affair because bad news makes a good playground and everyone has an opinion.

So on that basis, you can love or hate eCOGRA, love or hate Microgaming, agree or disagree with the actions thereof, but at the end of the day the situation arose because the new owners of Tusk either a) Didn't understand the business or b) set out to act fraudulently. Which would have been pretty stupid because if they did understand the business, they would have known this was inevitable. Or maybe they did...who knows.

 

[RobWin]

Exactly what happened to Northern Rock in the UK when people became aware there was a problem. It made a manageable problem unmanageable.

I like the "Bond" idea - but it should be the licencees who manage that, and can you see RTG ever doing that? Er...

Thank you Simmo, and I also AGREE that it should be the licencees who manage it...but what I was saying in post #122 was that eCOGRA has to require it before they will issue a Seal Certification to the Casino..., if in fact the Casino wants to be eCOGRA Certified...

 

[jetset]

Update

Latest statement from MGS, advising that Tusk has appointed a liquidator:

QUOTE:

7 March 2008

COMPANY STATEMENT: UPDATE 07/3/08

ISLE OF MAN - Microgaming has now been advised that a liquidator has been appointed by Tusk Investments Corporation, although the appointment is subject to ratification by the regulatory authorities of Vanuatu the jurisdiction in which Tusk is incorporated.

As yet, Microgaming has not been informed how long this ratification process will take, but it will provide additional updates on the situation as and when information becomes available.

About Tusk
Tusk Investment Corporation Limited operates a number of casino sites and poker rooms:

Casinos: Challenge Casino, Golden Reef Casino, Music Hall Casino, Nostalgia Casino, UK Casino Club, Big Casino

Poker Rooms: Battlefield Poker, Royal Card Club, Red Nines, Arctic Poker, Raw Poker, Poker.ie, Daily Poker, Flush Draw Poker, Will Bet Poker, Bet Road Poker, Grand Central Poker, Off The Rail Poker, Privy Poker, Berserk Poker, Atomik Poker, Dave's Poker Room, Hetman Poker, Hot Pepper Poker, Poker Seas, TilttAA Poker, Loose Games Poker, CPT Gaming Poker, Ice Bear Poker, GoHard Poker, Caya Poker, Mr Urban Poker, Poker Sweden, Euro Poker Dream

UNQUOTE

 

[Chinook]

It appears that the liquidators have been named.

Does anyone know their location and name(s)?

 

[jetset]

Casino Rewards takes over Casino Action casinos

Things developing quickly!

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[NASHVEGAS]

Things developing quickly!

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Great, just what my in box needs is more weekly spam from CR as I have done everything possible including closing all accounts well over a year ago to get CR to cease (some of which was not so polite after all else failed)..oh well, that said I really do not sweat spam in the grand scheme of all so I will just continue to receive more I presume...thanks for the link JS and the heads up!!

 

[chuchu59]

I wonder whether the account balances include the loyalty points.

 

[jetset]

Tusk casinos acquired by Casino Rewards

RESCUE MISSION. CASINO REWARDS STEPS IN ON TUSK DEBACLE

Fellow Aussies to take over casinos, but not poker operations of liquidated group

Online casino players with accounts at Tusk Investment's Casino Action group currently in the throes of liquidation can breath again - the Casino Rewards group has announced that it is to take over the online casino assets of the failed group. But the announcement warns that the acquisition does not include the widespread online poker assets of Casino Action.

All online casinos formerly operating under the Casino Action group such as Golden Reef, UK Casino Club, Nostalgia, iBig, Music Hall and Challenge, will soon fall under the Casino Rewards management, and ready for a grand re-opening on March 25, 2008.

Online casinos already in the well established and successful Casino Rewards group include: BlackjackBallroom.com GoldenTigerCasino.com, CaptainCooksCasino.com, Casino Kingdom, Casino Classic and LuckyEmperorCasino.com. The group is reviewed and monitored by eCOGRA.

All Casino Action player accounts in the acquired casinos will be safely transferred to the Casino Rewards network, with all account balances, withdrawals, and bonus credits available for immediate use.

"We are happy to welcome the new casinos into our network. We are working around the clock to integrate all of the casinos so the players have the best experience possible," said a spokesman for the Australian group. "Every cent of their account balances and bonus money will be accounted for and migrated over. They will be able to log in to the casinos just as they had previously and can play safe in the knowledge that the CasinoRewards logo will be on these casinos ensuring the security, reliability, and professionalism for which we are known."

The Casino Rewards team is working around the clock to finalise the migration. Unfortunately the online casinos will have to remain closed while the migration takes place but will be reopened on March 25, 2008. All players will receive a notification when they are able to play again.

Only the six casinos will migrate to Casino Rewards. Any poker rooms associated with Casino Action or any of its affiliates are not part of Casino Rewards and Casino Rewards has no knowledge whatsoever of the situation therein.

Whilst the fate of the poker rooms remains uncertain, the takeover of the online casinos in the failed Casino Action group will be welcomed by players and affiliates alike, as it assures their payouts. Casino Action's troubles started some weeks ago when a review team from the player protection and standards body eCOGRA discovered departures from its standards serious enough to warrant the immediate and public suspension of its 'Fair and Safe' seals.

Confidentiality obligations prevented eCOGRA from revealing the nature of the non-compliances, however Tusk subsequently advised its software provider Microgaming that it intended to go into liquidation, causing the immediate suspension of its software license and closure.

Tusk Investments, the owners of the Casino Action group have been remarkably silent on the issue, and have not communicated directly with the player community or the public on the issue. It is understood that the appointment of liquidators has been finalised and awaits the approval of the Vanuatu jurisdiction.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well this is good news - not excellent news, but good news nevertheless.

I would have rather seen Vegas Partners, Jackpot Factory, or another group that is active in the online gaming community take these casinos in. The Casino Rewards group has a standoffish attitude when it comes to dealing with player issues.

 

[Mousey]

All online casinos formerly operating under the Casino Action group such as Golden Reef, UK Casino Club, Nostalgia, iBig, Music Hall and Challenge, will soon fall under the Casino Rewards management, and ready for a grand re-opening on March 25, 2008.

Online casinos already in the well established and successful Casino Rewards group include: BlackjackBallroom.com GoldenTigerCasino.com, CaptainCooksCasino.com, Casino Kingdom, Casino Classic and LuckyEmperorCasino.com.

Thanks for the list. I'll be sure to keep them off my computer. Ummm... no... I'm not a CR fan.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This might be interesting, for bonus whores at least

Casino Rewards will want to protect the transferred player base, as this is the chief asset of what they have bought.
Hopefully, transferred players will be offered another crack at each SUB to encourage continued loyalty, and many will probably be instantly booted to Casino Rewards VIP lounge level. This is pretty much what happened to me when they bought Aztec Riches and Phoenician from Casino Action before.

Sadly, their ongoing promotions are not so good as under Casino Action, and probably will NOT appeal to the inherited player base.

With the 25th also being my Birthday, I will remind Casino Rewards of this coincidence, as it may be of some value to me

 

[RobWin]

RESCUE MISSION. CASINO REWARDS STEPS IN ON TUSK DEBACLE

Fellow Aussies to take over casinos, but not poker operations of liquidated group

Online casino players with accounts at Tusk Investment's Casino Action group currently in the throes of liquidation can breath again - the Casino Rewards group has announced that it is to take over the online casino assets of the failed group. But the announcement warns that the acquisition does not include the widespread online poker assets of Casino Action.

All online casinos formerly operating under the Casino Action group such as Golden Reef, UK Casino Club, Nostalgia, iBig, Music Hall and Challenge, will soon fall under the Casino Rewards management, and ready for a grand re-opening on March 25, 2008.

Online casinos already in the well established and successful Casino Rewards group include: BlackjackBallroom.com GoldenTigerCasino.com, CaptainCooksCasino.com, Casino Kingdom, Casino Classic and LuckyEmperorCasino.com. The group is reviewed and monitored by eCOGRA.

All Casino Action player accounts in the acquired casinos will be safely transferred to the Casino Rewards network, with all account balances, withdrawals, and bonus credits available for immediate use.

"We are happy to welcome the new casinos into our network. We are working around the clock to integrate all of the casinos so the players have the best experience possible," said a spokesman for the Australian group. "Every cent of their account balances and bonus money will be accounted for and migrated over. They will be able to log in to the casinos just as they had previously and can play safe in the knowledge that the CasinoRewards logo will be on these casinos ensuring the security, reliability, and professionalism for which we are known."

The Casino Rewards team is working around the clock to finalise the migration. Unfortunately the online casinos will have to remain closed while the migration takes place but will be reopened on March 25, 2008. All players will receive a notification when they are able to play again.

Only the six casinos will migrate to Casino Rewards. Any poker rooms associated with Casino Action or any of its affiliates are not part of Casino Rewards and Casino Rewards has no knowledge whatsoever of the situation therein.

Whilst the fate of the poker rooms remains uncertain, the takeover of the online casinos in the failed Casino Action group will be welcomed by players and affiliates alike, as it assures their payouts. Casino Action's troubles started some weeks ago when a review team from the player protection and standards body eCOGRA discovered departures from its standards serious enough to warrant the immediate and public suspension of its 'Fair and Safe' seals.

Confidentiality obligations prevented eCOGRA from revealing the nature of the non-compliances, however Tusk subsequently advised its software provider Microgaming that it intended to go into liquidation, causing the immediate suspension of its software license and closure.

Tusk Investments, the owners of the Casino Action group have been remarkably silent on the issue, and have not communicated directly with the player community or the public on the issue. It is understood that the appointment of liquidators has been finalised and awaits the approval of the Vanuatu jurisdiction.

Jet, I'm sure you remember our big discussion that you and I had in the Other Thread regarding this issue concerning eCOGRA, well now it looks like my worst fears and yours too have been confirmed, that eCOGRA does in fact have "Confidentiality Obligations" or as you said "ND clause" in place with their seal casinos...so this takes me back to one of my previous concerns as to how they can truly be a player advocate that is "Transparent" regarding looking out for the player community and keeping the player community forewarned regarding issues like the one that just happened with Casino Action when they have these "Confidentiality Obligations" and "NDA in place" ??

And, as a side note I am all for eCOGRA,, but also concerned as well about this issue and would like to hear your thoughts on this Jet as well as others here...

 

[dominique]

Press Release:

Casino Rewards Adds 6 Casinos to its Network

Award winning online casino group CasinoRewards.com extends its family, taking new online casinos under its wing to become the white knights of the online gaming world.

All online casinos operating under the Casino Action group: Golden Reef, UK Casino Club, Nostalgia, iBig, Music Hall and Challenge, will soon be under the Casino Rewards management, and ready for a grand reopening on 25 March 2008.

All player accounts in the aforementioned casinos will be safely transferred to the Casino Rewards network, with all account balances, withdrawals, and bonus credits available for immediate use.

“We are happy to welcome the new casinos into our network. We are working around the clock to integrate all of the casinos so the players have the best experience possible. Every cent of their account balances and bonus money will be accounted for and migrated over. They will be able to log in to the casinos just as they had previously and can play safe in the knowledge that the CasinoRewards logo will be on these casinos ensuring the security, reliability, and professionalism for which we are known.” (Spokesperson for Casino Rewards.)

The Casino Rewards team is working around the clock to finalize the migration. Unfortunately the online casinos will be closed while the migration takes place but will be reopened on 25 March. All players will receive a notification when they are able to play again.

The Casino Rewards group with its 12 exciting and luxurious online casinos, including GoldenTigercasino.com, CasinoClassic.com, CaptainCooksCasino.com, BlackJackBallroom.com and CasinoKingdom.com, continues to make online gambling more accessible to new players with its frequent promotions and signature bonus offers -
new players have the chance to use $500 of the casino's money to play any of the 260+ Las Vegas style online games absolutely free for one hour.

About Rewards Affiliates:

Established in 2000, RewardsAffiliates.com is the affiliates program of Casino Rewards, recently crowned "Best Affiliate Program" in the annual Casino Affiliate Program awards.
Rewards Affiliates has positioned itself as a respected industry leader, offering affiliates an excellent commission structure, unique affiliate marketing tools, fast, reliable monthly payouts and a dedicated 24/7 support team.

***Only the six aforementioned casinos will migrate to Casino Rewards. Any poker rooms associated with Casino Action or any of its affiliates are not part of Casino Rewards and Casino Rewards has no knowledge whatsoever of the situation therein.

This is great news, all people owed money shall be paid and business will be as usual.

I am very pleased with Rewards and with Microgaming. They handled this in the best possible way.

 

[Self Made]

Microgaming's latest press release

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:

COMPANY STATEMENT: UPDATE 20/3/08

ISLE OF MAN - Microgaming can confirm that a Brisbane based liquidator has been appointed by Tusk Corporation and ratified by the regulatory authorities in Vanuatu. Microgaming has been in contact with the liquidator and been informed that they are currently in the process of gathering all the relevant financial information from Tusk Corporation. The liquidator made it clear that this process may take some time, however, Microgaming has been led to believe that affected players will receive information on how to lodge their claims with the liquidator by the end of next week. Microgaming appreciates that the slow process is causing continued frustration among the playing community, but unfortunately it is not in a position to influence the speed of the legal process. Microgaming will endeavour to keep players informed as more information is made available.

Remember, the poker skins still have to be dealt with.

 

[jetset]

Well this is good news - not excellent news, but good news nevertheless.

I would have rather seen Vegas Partners, Jackpot Factory, or another group that is active in the online gaming community take these casinos in. The Casino Rewards group has a standoffish attitude when it comes to dealing with player issues.

I guess it was whichever group gave the liquidators the best price, Bryan.

For the casino players at least this ensures that their account balances will be honoured by the new owners of the Tusk casinos, which should assuage the concerns of those owed money.

The poker situation remains unclear, and Tusk remains totally uncommunicative - it's almost as if the directors/owners have shut down along with their company!

In contrast, Microgaming are continuing to communicate with the player community as information becomes available to them, and that's a good sign imo.

 

[Simmo!]

Sadly, their ongoing promotions are not so good as under Casino Action, and probably will NOT appeal to the inherited player base.

While it's great that the casinos are soon to be back in business, I agree with this...I hope they will tread carefully here as Casino Action had one or two excellent features that players will be expecting. Most notably instant Neteller and the Casino Action program. Also they operated on a 12hr Reverse Period. CR operate a 48hr reverse and that might be a bit of a shock to some people if they utilise that here.

Although I suspect that having shelled out for the player base they will be keen to ensure they keep it, so fingers crossed.

 

[dominique]

I think the most important thing is that everyone will get paid, and that will be the case with the casinos. Rewards has experience with mapping player and affiliate accounts over, which some places really mess up. I expect this to work well.

After that, it's up to everyone to make their own decisions about whether they like the new system or not. That's par for the course.

The poker remains a problem. Not sure how many people are affected there, but I assume that eventually players will be paid (albeit it can take a long time) and affiliates will not.

 

[chuchu59]

While I am happy that all players will be paid, the overcrowded MG market is a bit of a concern. The CA group was brought down to its knees probably due to lack of business despite the casinos being seemingly well-managed and not having many player issues. Unless there is a huge influx of new players, I cannot see how the number of MG casinos can continue to thrive under such adverse conditions especially since the US and other economies are showing signs of slowing down.