Surprising Paddy Power Move - Account suspended after first deposit

[vinylweatherman]

Frankly I dont think your $22 deposit had anything to do with their labelling you as a bonus abuser though it might be a catch-22 situation.. It might be that you are a continuous bonus taker at many playtech casinos but I can see nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, this may mean playtech share the player database with casinos like Rival and this is to be frowned upon.

This has now been confirmed as fact by the Grand Duke rep in his award winning arguments about why they were justified in the actions they took.

The database is actually operated by Paragon Customer Care, but since this company is pretty much fully owned by Playtech, it is the same as Playtech operating the database. The database is used to prevent fraud, but also works in a similar manner to the Rival player ratings system, and players' behaviour over all Playtech casinos is used to generate a "risk factor". This is how a brand new player who deposits $22 can be confirmed as a "bonus abuser" on the basis of two 60c slot spins. The determination is NOT down to the actions at that one casino, but the fact that the player has used bonuses at a number of other Playtech properties, and has been successful in beating some of them.

It shows that Paddy Power is in fact a "white label" Playtech casino, and the only connection with Paddy Power is a branding agreement. Day to day operations are most likely done through Paragon Customer care.

It's their bad luck that at the time Grand Duke told a player to post their documents to the Phillipines, Paragon were recruiting staff via an internet advertisement, and the addresses were an exact match, with job applicants being told to send their applications to the exact same address as the player was told to post their ID documents. Casinos have always only given the address, no company name or recipient. Paragon was then traced back to Playtech because they (Playtech) are listed on the London Stock exchange, and had to disclose the nature of their relationship with Paragon in the notes to the annual accounts and company report.

The OP may well have been kicked out because of this shared database, perhaps something he did at a different Playtech casino, or being too clever with the bonuses at several.

 

[maxd]

Okay, let me first admit that I haven't read this whole thread. To be honest I've been busy with Casinomeister business recently.

In this particular case I have been in touch with the casino and have seen sufficient evidence to believe that they are justified in their actions to date.

The bottom line is the player's own actions caused some serious identity questions and the word I have from the casino peeps is that they've made their requirements for moving forward clear to the player and those requirements have thus far not been met. In particular those are:

... the customer forward us a copy of his current passport and an unblocked copy of the Entropay letter ....

As I understand it nothing is going to happen for the player until these document requests are fulfilled and the identity questions are cleared up.

 

[chayton]

Thanks Max! If the OP isn't pulling our leg, they never got any request for more info. Unless it was in what the OP called 'the huge block of text' from the email when the account was closed.

Since the PAB submitted, I have only receive 2 reply, one is PM from ppcasino on 12 Dec mentioning they will response to me shortly, second is the reply in this thread, telling the issue has been 'suddenly' resolved.

Anyhow...ok so the OP said earlier that PP asked for a passport and screenshots, and they (the OP) sent the screenshots but with info blocked out and didn't send a passport at all. So PP wants the screenies without the info blocked out AND the passport? So it's got nothing to do with being from Malaysia or wherever it was.

 

[Simmo!]

I feel sorry for legit players from Malaysia tbh as they get tainted by the actions of others.

Around 2002-2004, I was part of an operation that ran a small, independent online record shop. Over the course of the 2 years we received several hundred orders and every single one from Malaysia - of which there were many - without a single exception, was a fraudulent order. We lost a lot of money shipping goods there initially and we eventually simply banned all orders from Malaysia and our (quite big) payment processsor of the time said they were actually considering similar action themselves as it was so prevalent.

 

[Slotaholic]

Frankly I dont think your $22 deposit had anything to do with their labelling you as a bonus abuser though it might be a catch-22 situation.. It might be that you are a continuous bonus taker at many playtech casinos but I can see nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, this may mean playtech share the player database with casinos like Rival and this is to be frowned upon.

I might be,but the ting is that i dont usually play at playtech casinos anymore.
The last playtech casino i played at was bet365,and that was over a year ago.

 

[chuchu59]

I might be,but the ting is that i dont usually play at playtech casinos anymore.
The last playtech casino i played at was bet365,and that was over a year ago.

In that case take your $22 and play at casinos using other software. Honest playtech casinos wont want your business and rogue playtechs will use 'bonus abusing' as an excuse not to pay you if you win.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Okay, let me first admit that I haven't read this whole thread. To be honest I've been busy with Casinomeister business recently.

In this particular case I have been in touch with the casino and have seen sufficient evidence to believe that they are justified in their actions to date.

The bottom line is the player's own actions caused some serious identity questions and the word I have from the casino peeps is that they've made their requirements for moving forward clear to the player and those requirements have thus far not been met. In particular those are:


As I understand it nothing is going to happen for the player until these document requests are fulfilled and the identity questions are cleared up.

If he is giving an honest account, he didn't seem to do anything out of the ordinary.

His account got locked in the middle of play, and he got pissed off, and rightly so. He was therefore not too friendly in dealing with support, but did send in the usual documents players are asked for. The casino just kept wanting more though, and it looked like they were just wasting his time because they had already decided his account would remain closed.

The unusual request was to have Entropay verify him, and this simply was not acceptable to Entropay, who more or less told him they were not going to get involved. The casino should have known this, and should not have sent him on this fools errand, the result of which only served to convince him he was now DEFINITELY getting the run around from them.

When it comes to blocking sensitive information, this is common practice, and casinos even remind players to do this to prevent their documents being misused if intercepted. Unfortunately, there is no set guidance as to what should be blocked out, and what should not, and casinos never tell players exactly which part of a document they are wanting to see, which leads over cautious players to block out too much because they believe they are showing the casino the bits they need. The OP thought it was the actual transaction entries, but clearly this was NOT what they needed to see, and what they needed had been blocked out.

They are now asking for nothing to be blocked out, but surely this is going too far the other way, and could cause the Entropay account to be at risk of being hacked if the document fell into the wrong hands. They also want the passport, but a driving license if sent is usually good enough.

For the sake of an account that the player has not been able to use yet, why bother. Tell them to "get stuffed", and play elsewhere. Get the document verifications out of the way first at this new place, and tell them they won't be seeing a deposit till this has been done - it tends to make the process a little faster. If the alternate venue has the same doubts as PP had, you will find out right away, rather than when they have your money.

Although Simmo had an experience that suggests Malaysia is a "hotbed" of internet fraudsters, PP have NOT seen fit to ban this country, yet have banned a considerable number of countries in what has to be the most extensive country blacklist I have ever seen, making it all the more surprising they have not included Malaysia.

 

[cycyzheng]

So I see. The main reason is I didn't send in passport, but what interesting is pp lying in the procedure whatever it is, this is not important anymore I'm afraid.

After I send in large amount of Entropay screenshots, I never receive another request other than a reply informing my account was closed with a 'huge text of block' which is just some common company wording. Clearly my membership is not welcome here, they can have one extra customer and my gambling spending in just 1 email away, but they never send in another email to me, in fact they can send something like: "Unfortunately we need to have your passport copy and unblocked version of your entropay screenshot for security check purpose, please send those documents to this email in order to have your account activated, we are sorry for the inconvenience."
The decision is made instantly and my account was closed without a doubt. It might be a different outcome if I can have a VIP check but in reality it is not possible yet because I do not want to spend my hard earned few hundreds k into gambling yet.
Of course the decision might be on the security team individual side and not on the casino behalf, but representing the pp I guess in order to have a position in the team they must be ordered to have some sense in handle certain case, whether it be deposit amount, country of residence, e.t.c e.t.c they know how to view it case by case. All in all they have a strong reason in palm.

I think if I send my DNA report in, with my address on page, and maybe ask them to include my credit card number on it too, they will still ask for my passport too because as usual I might block some sensitive information as well before sending it, and without pp asking me to send it beforehand my account will be closed first too. They are busy, without moving brain cell and strictly following the procedure is the best way to go, I think everyone will agree; so it is somewhat my fault too because I do not send the passport when first asked by the team after I sent my driving license front+back and current credit card statement. In other hand, I wonder why if someone never travel aboard he cannot bet. I like to travel, and I don't think sending my passport which can be used by the receiver is a good idea.

Also, as 2 months past, I have joined 3 other casinos, all from the most reputed casinos in the world. 2 of them which I actively play are verified, and clear shot of my driving license + clear shot of my current credit card statement is more than sufficient to verify my identity, furthermore if a procedure can have extra information like Entropay statement which also show the current login time,IP(with account name black out, but why do you need the account name, it can be generated randomly from kindergarten alphabet combination to some code where even code expert could not decipher); with some common sense the identity should be verified if you are able to cross check everything.
May be there are still some flaw, but now we are saying other big casinos which have already operate for decades have flaw in their security check process and they shall cease their operation immediately because they are assisting illegal act, I don't think so.

For what it's worth, I can send those documents to max like I mention before in my post, and also let him have a view on the huge block text email, my impression of max is he can be trusted. But again I guess this is gonna waste one more person time because the outcome shall not change whatsoever. Even if now sending in passport can re-open my account I don't think I will send it and I also don't think anyone will still have passion to make it their new home after this runaround. Furthermore this public thread has goes too long, too far; if you know what I mean. Like Vinyl said, if I want to play, it is going to be elsewhere.

If either party need anything from me just let me know and I think this PAB can be close and rest in peace at the moment.



***Frankly wtf this post consume me almost half an hour+little longer , gonna back to CNY first as today is the first day:notworthy

 

[cycyzheng]

The OP may well have been kicked out because of this shared database, perhaps something he did at a different Playtech casino, or being too clever with the bonuses at several.

I just check it, all 3 casinos I play is not playtech casino/software. PP is the first online casino I involved in I think and I even read their T&C roughly. Furthermore, placing finger-countable amount of bet on live baccarat and roulette without participating in any bonus scheme will get someone go crazy if he get labelled as a bonus abuser.

I feel sorry for legit players from Malaysia tbh as they get tainted by the actions of others.

Around 2002-2004, I was part of an operation that ran a small, independent online record shop. Over the course of the 2 years we received several hundred orders and every single one from Malaysia - of which there were many - without a single exception, was a fraudulent order. We lost a lot of money shipping goods there initially and we eventually simply banned all orders from Malaysia and our (quite big) payment processsor of the time said they were actually considering similar action themselves as it was so prevalent.

This is shameful to say the least, do you really mean 100.00% ? I do operate a small SEO company back in 2009 and most of my customer is from US, every month I will have 1-2 different customer from my own country i.e. Malaysia and not a single one is fraud, their website is also legit and not just a single-paged ad spammed content or a fake review article with affiliate link. I think this have to do with the time, as you mentino 2002-2004, at that time Malaysia's economy is still on its infancy,okay may be teenager, considering other countries' economy. And I think during that time, internet is still not popular in Malaysia, if not mistaken at around 2005 I'm still using dial-up 56kbps

 

[chayton]

For what it's worth, I can send those documents to max like I mention before in my post, and also let him have a view on the huge block text email, my impression of max is he can be trusted. But again I guess this is gonna waste one more person time because the outcome shall not change whatsoever. Even if now sending in passport can re-open my account I don't think I will send it and I also don't think anyone will still have passion to make it their new home after this runaround.

Well it's totally up to you, if you don't plan on playing there anyhow then I suppose it doesn't matter, you don't send it and they keep your account closed. Although if you want to just drop the PAB then contact Max via PM and let him know so he doesn't waste any more time on it.

 

[maxd]

Yes, do let me know if you want the case dropped, and please give your reasons.

FWIW, PP's position -- if I may paraphrase -- is that the OP has either not been entirely honest about the circumstances of this case or the OP has had someone mucking about with their casino account.

Either way the identity questions are serious enough that the issue has to be settled before the player can have full access to the account. I'm not saying who's right and who's wrong here, just that their concerns are justified (from the evidence I've seen) and need to be cleared up by following the procedures they've specified.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, do let me know if you want the case dropped, and please give your reasons.

FWIW, PP's position -- if I may paraphrase -- is that the OP has either not been entirely honest about the circumstances of this case or the OP has had someone mucking about with their casino account.

Either way the identity questions are serious enough that the issue has to be settled before the player can have full access to the account. I'm not saying who's right and who's wrong here, just that their concerns are justified (from the evidence I've seen) and need to be cleared up by following the procedures they've specified.

I was thinking that the OP seemed too keen to carry on pursuing access to this particular account given how much competition there is in the industry. PP have made it clear they don't really want him as a player, and the best that can be achieved is a grudging acceptance. The OP is not prepared to spend "hundreds" at online casinos, and already has two other accounts at casinos that have seen his documents and given them the all clear.

I believe this case is more a "computer says no", and there is little in the way of discretion granted to human operators to override this. Instead, they have to ask for more documentation, and ask "computer" again. I recently had the very same BS from my bank. Despite banking with them since 1977, and having paid tens of thousands through my account this year alone, it was a case of them sending me an offer, and then telling me "computer says no". They said "nothing we can do", and suggested I wait till "computer says yes". I told them to close the offending product instead.

This is why I suggested the OP take a similar attitude with PP. It's better to find out now, rather than battling with "computer" over a 5 figure cashin.

I find it odd that one operator can have "compelling evidence", whilst another has absolutely no concerns. Given that fraud data is shared throughout the industry, I would have expected more convergence between the procedures at different operators.

Either PP have got it wrong, or the other two casinos have missed clear signs of suspicious behaviour, and are going to get scammed.

It would also seem highly suspicious if the OP continued to fight hard to get this one account opened, rather than move on to one of their competitors. This makes it look like they have devised a scheme specific to PP, so wants to enact it there.

Despite concerns, sending passports is common practice among online casinos, and if governments find this a threat to national security, they should start making a fuss about it, rather than looking the other way as they do at present.

 

[BBKPoker]

PP is super trustworthy, and Malaysia is a relatively common country for fraudsters. I'd imagine that OP is linked in some way to fraudsters, or it could just be opening an account in GBP when that's not his native currency. Regardless, there's nothing fraudulent about a casino refusing to accept bets from a customer as long as this is done beforehand, in fact, its far more desirable then allowing a customer to play and then deciding whether or not to confiscate as many casinos do. I actually think Paddy should be thanked for doing these checks up front, coming to the conclusion of whether or not to accept a player, and sorting out the whole mess BEFORE anyone wins or loses any money. In this scenario, Paddy can just refund the customer his deposit with no wagering having occurred.

BTW, Paddy also security locked my account within 10 minutes of me registering, and unlocked and approved my account in less than an hour of sending in my documentation, so I am highly doubting that this is a typical wait unless something was seriously wrong. Granted, I haven't ever won anything there, but they've always been super fast and helpful

 

[maxd]

As it happens the OP as requested the PAB be withdrawn. Fair enough, but as it stands there is no justification for the OP's original "Roguish" label on this thread and so I have removed it.

When I'm back in my office next week I'll go over this again and see if further action is required.