Bitch and Moan SuperLenny - Confiscation of Winnings - Lost My Faith in Online Gambling

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
Casinos are lucky that many players DON'T read the terms, as if they did, they would be scared off the idea of playing because they would see how the casino was making damn sure they would end up losing over the long term.

You say "reading the terms and being scared off by them" like it's a bad thing. If you don't like the terms you should be scared off by them. It's better than accepting them without knowing what they are.

You can't say people don't know the terms exist. Even the poorest written terms and conditions usually have a link to them right under the bonus offer. "Terms and conditions apply." The thing we have to remember is nobody is forcing anyone to take these bonuses. If you choose to take the bonus, you choose to accept the terms.

When we argue about vague or unfair terms here at Casinomeister the entire point is usually that they are against the rules for accreditation. If someone accepts some bullshit rule there's not a lot that person can do when that rule comes back to bite him in the ass. But Bryan can come along after and say "It's entirely up to you if you want to maintain and enforce that rule but you can't hold Casinomeister accreditation status if you do."

That's when the casino usually chooses to change the rule. Up until that point it's just a rule that's been accepted by a player and in most cases the player has to live with it.

The difference in this case is there is nothing wrong with the rule. You as a player might not like being limited to 6 or 7 dollars per spin and if that's the case you forego the bonus and play with your own money. But what you can't do is accept a clearly stated betting limit and then bet whatever you like.

The bonuses are accepted by choice and the bonus rules are part of the package.
 

Johnnygotthebon

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Canada
Dude......

Hi Guys

I am not sure if I have a case to lodge a PAB but I just thought I would share with you all my story.

23/06/2014 - The Night SuperLenny (Thrills) Destroyed My Soul

It is a cold winters night in Australia, Tuesday night watching the World Cup.
I receive an email from Superlenny.com casino offering a 100% Samba match bonus - Brazil is currently playing and Neymar has scored two goals.
Let's try my luck I think - 100% is good what have I got to lose?

Little do I know, I would lose more than just money - but my faith in online gambling.

So I deposit a whopping $27.15 (USD) giving me a balance of $54.30 in total to attack.
Start the night on mobile, betting $2.40 per spin on Mad Hatters - I get home and decide to jump on the PC.

On P.C. I decide to switch to Immortal Romance, dropping my bet to $1.20 with my balance sitting at a cool $80.40.
I haven't even fallen below even yet let along gone anywhere near using my bonus balance!

Stats:
- Min Balance = $50.70
- Current Balance = $80.40
- Wagering Req Left = $1,177.50

Ok the fun starts here.....5 spins in I hit Wild Desire with my bet at $1.20.
4 wild reels, huge payout of $1134 - a whopping 945 times my bet.
Woohoo! A withdrawal is on its way!

With my balance sitting at $1210 USD, I resume playing as I know I have quite a bit of the wagering requirement still to go.

From here I play Twin Spin, betting $5 per spin.
Balance is sitting at a cool $1144 still so I up the bet to $7.50 then to $10.00.
Somewhere within here I have unknowingly broken the rules of the bonus.

Despite breaking these seemingly absurd terms considering the balance of my account due to that huge Immortal Romance win, I continue to play 450+ spins with a minimum bet of $10 after the WR has been met.

I finally withdraw 451 spins later with a balance of $727 USD, not having a clue I had broken any terms of the bonus but knowing I had obliterated many times over any WR that could exist.

Hours pass and I am awaiting my withdrawal - I am ignored by support who insist 'payments are not in until tomorrow'.

15 hours later, after parading around a day like a winner I get the news my winnings have been confiscated and that I am a violator of the terms of the bonus.
What is even more hurtful is the manner in which I am spoken to by support.
As if I am a criminal, a deliberate violator, a bonus abuser?
No sympathy whatsoever - no attempt at even a compensatory offer -''I am lucky to get my deposit back" according to them.

So here are the terms and conditions of the bonus:

Terms and Conditions for All Casino Bonuses
The maximum bet that is allowed to be placed when playing with a bonus is €5/$6/£4 per spin and €0.1/$0.1/£0.1 per Bet line (or equivalent in any other currency) until the play through requirements of the bonus have been met. This includes double up wagers after the game round has been completed. For example, wagering winnings from X game round on red/black.

Ok so I broke the rules, I bet in excess of $6 with bonus funds in my account.

What hurts the most is my position I was in at the time these 'excessive bets' were spun.

- I switched from $5 bet to $7.50 bet with a funds balance of $1144 USD and remaining WR of only $441
- I switched from $7.50 bet to $10 bet with a funds balance of $1658 USD and remaining WR of only $148

Hence I have been hit with the ultimate punishment.
Confiscation of everything.

My balance never even fell below my initial deposit, meaning I never even came close to using the bonus funds issued.

I am utterly scarred from this experience, especially the ruthless attitude shown by the agent who spoke to me.

Online gaming will never be the same for me again.
Let this be a warning to you all.

I guess you are all going to lay into me and state that I have no case for a PAB.
You are probably right.

To feel like a lucky gambler who just had a great hit, to feel like a pennyless crook.

Thanks Superlenny/Thrills, you have my soul.

Regards,
b0kch01





It's over. Don't waste your time my friend. Super lenny and a few others have this in their terms.

U will not get anything.

I really feel for you my man

I once turned something like that into 8000£ And they wouldn't let me cash out. Said I had to get a wallet to cash out. But these casinos live by their rules.

U will not see this money.

I am so sorry man!!!
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
It's over. Don't waste your time my friend. Super lenny and a few others have this in their terms.

U will not get anything.

I really feel for you my man

I once turned something like that into 8000£ And they wouldn't let me cash out. Said I had to get a wallet to cash out. But these casinos live by their rules.

U will not see this money.

I am so sorry man!!!

Dude.. Just..don´t...please :(
 

Johnnygotthebon

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Canada
Gowild casino....

Go wild probably has the worst bonus policy on the planet. But they do make exceptions.

I got a belated 250 bonus which I turned into 6k never wagering more than 8 dollars a spin.

Since it was deposited after I lost my original 250, it was considered a non deposit bonus. Max cash out of 150. I was in shock.

Nicolas from customer service didn't even have to fight my case. He explained to management and I got paid 5 days later.

Each casino had their own policy. Own rules. Super Lenny made me waste one hour trying to use a ukash ticket from Canada. It doesn't work! Waste of time and awful knowledge of their people.

Speak to management sir.

700 dollars is a lot of money. A years gasoline or groceries for the family.

They may be right but try to reason with them. Sometimes casinos actually care about their players Sir.
 

b0kch01

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Location
Australia
Thanks all once again.

There is no denying that I broke the rules clearly but where I am concerned is the treatment received by the casino after the event.

It is not like I demanded anything.
I was very open minded knowing that there was a 0.1% chance of my withdrawal being paid.
I engaged in a very civilised manner, not letting my emotions ruin what miniscule chance I had at some kind of compensation or pity goodwill funds.

Can;t help but feell like the minute the facts (stats) of my case were reviewed they took the offensive to me.
They were very harsh to the extent I felt I was being treated me like a criminal who had intentions of defeating or finding some loophole in their terms and was demanding a 'pay or else'.

I really did not want to 'bitch and moan' about publically about this casino as I know pretty much all the casinos have some kind of term like this in their bonus requirements.
The bad publicity is not something I feel Superlenny should be singled out for.

But after the way I feel I was spoken to and treated led to this post as I really do think they have got it totally wrong in terms of my intentions.

I still would like to hear from a rep just to get some closure.
I am sick of hearing 'you broke the rules plain and simple'.
That is fact.

Where I am still scratching my head is why do I feel like the casino's enemy?

Note: I haven't reviewed any reply back from the Rep (Erik).
Should I bother even chasing a response from a player support rep?

The topic seems to have gained quite a large response for the public so I would think the casino would want to make a statement for the sake of their image.

Then again I guess I am just another number, another dollar to the casino.
Business is business.

Regards,
Chris (b0kch01)
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
Note: I haven't reviewed any reply back from the Rep (Erik).
Should I bother even chasing a response from a player support rep?

The topic seems to have gained quite a large response for the public so I would think the casino would want to make a statement for the sake of their image.

He should of course respond to your pm if you have sent one to him. It would be rude not to.

I think I can guarantee you though that their image have not been hurt by this thread. They didnt do anything wrong.
Maybe you felt like they were treating you bad, but that doesn't mean they did or had the intention to.

I hope others who have read this will be warned so that they see how important it is to read the rules, but that goes for all casinos and not just this one.

I think you should let it go now if you can.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Thanks all once again.

There is no denying that I broke the rules clearly but where I am concerned is the treatment received by the casino after the event.

It is not like I demanded anything.
I was very open minded knowing that there was a 0.1% chance of my withdrawal being paid.
I engaged in a very civilised manner, not letting my emotions ruin what miniscule chance I had at some kind of compensation or pity goodwill funds.

Can;t help but feell like the minute the facts (stats) of my case were reviewed they took the offensive to me.
They were very harsh to the extent I felt I was being treated me like a criminal who had intentions of defeating or finding some loophole in their terms and was demanding a 'pay or else'.

I really did not want to 'bitch and moan' about publically about this casino as I know pretty much all the casinos have some kind of term like this in their bonus requirements.
The bad publicity is not something I feel Superlenny should be singled out for.

But after the way I feel I was spoken to and treated led to this post as I really do think they have got it totally wrong in terms of my intentions.

I still would like to hear from a rep just to get some closure.
I am sick of hearing 'you broke the rules plain and simple'.
That is fact.

Where I am still scratching my head is why do I feel like the casino's enemy?

Note: I haven't reviewed any reply back from the Rep (Erik).
Should I bother even chasing a response from a player support rep?

The topic seems to have gained quite a large response for the public so I would think the casino would want to make a statement for the sake of their image.

Then again I guess I am just another number, another dollar to the casino.
Business is business.

Regards,
Chris (b0kch01)


Well you did, and it IS that simple. What can the rep tell you that we haven't?
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
ok a couple of things...you say, "There is no denying that I broke the rules clearly." but you keep harping on about it. What exactly IS it that you expect the casino or the rep to do for you now?

And the other thing, you say that you didn't like the treatment you got from support, that they were rude or "treated you like a criminal" but unless I missed it, there's no evidence of either of those things. Do you have an email where they said that or a saved chat that you can post? Or is this just something you're reading into it because they're choosing to stick to their terms and not pay you?

Also - and I'm not saying that you did this - but if there's any evidence that you said anything to casino support about posting here if they don't pay, that would be a bad thing and would put your membership in jeopardy.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be an assh*le here, and I apologize if I'm coming off that way - but it's pretty cut and dried. You broke the term, your winnings are void period. Time to move on. And BTW, this 'absurd' max bet rule is in place in a LOT of casinos, it's not an unusual term by any stretch of the imagination. You can choose to take a lesson from it to either start reading the terms or quit playing with bonuses.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Note: I haven't reviewed any reply back from the Rep (Erik).
Should I bother even chasing a response from a player support rep?

I think that Erik (like many other casino reps) is in Amsterdam most of the week for the Amsterdam Affiliate Conference.

I am sure he will look into your case and give you a reply as soon as he gets back.
 

Mouche12

Kitty Lover
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Location
Amsterdam
Ouch, I do feel for the OP. I always check the T&Cs AND double-check with live chat about the exact bonus rules. Why not try Guts - their max bet size is $7.50 before WR is met, which gives some more leeway in case you hit big - and they have awesome customer service!
 

Johnnygotthebon

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Location
Canada
Try go wild as well

Ouch, I do feel for the OP. I always check the T&Cs AND double-check with live chat about the exact bonus rules. Why not try Guts - their max bet size is $7.50 before WR is met, which gives some more leeway in case you hit big - and they have awesome customer service!


I received a belated deposit bonus and hit thousands upon thousands of dollars with it.

I admit, I did not wager over their rules but it was inserted as a non deposit bonus into the system. Original response was I was eligible for 150. One quick phone call and problem was solved.

Each casino has their rules. Some casinos actually make exceptions.

I guess you picked one that will stick to its rules. Sorry.
 

dizze

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Location
uk
That's the trouble with these rules. Your problem is that you played just as a recreational player would, betting a little higher after a blinding big hit and straying above the limits.

What you SHOULD have done is to have some "advantage play" skills, and played like a cross between a recreational and advantage player. Upon hitting the big win, you should have calculated exactly the highest permissible bet on a slot by slot basis, and then selected the best way to play off the remaining WR.

The safest of all would have been to keep the bets between $1.20 and $2.40 throughout the rest of the playthrough, aiming to complete it to the dot and withdraw as much as possible of the winnings. Unfortunately, they may well have confiscated the winnings even then because you "played to make WR" rather than "played recreationally".

This is something that can happen at ANY online casino, not just this one, so if this is what has put you off, it's the fault of the industry for not having proper rules and procedures in place to consider individual cases on their merit. A more reputable casino may well have considered the case, and concluded that by betting high only after a spectacular hit, you are the kind of "recreational player" they want long term, and thus could be offered a compromise.

The rule is there to cater for players who start betting big right away, far too large a bet for their balance for it to be "recreational play".

Theres no such thing as AN AP

Only difference is between IDIOTS , SHREWDIES, and Frauds
 

Erik

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Location
Tel Aviv
Hi All

Sorry for the delay, but just as Rainmaker guessed i was attending the affiliate conference in Amsterdam last week, usually the Internet is not an issue, but this time it was and it was borderline impossible to get on the line, so my apologizes for that.

Regarding the OP issue,
I have read through the entire thread and also checked internally around the case, and unfortunately it is a direct violation to our bonus terms and conditions. I know it might sound harsh but we must stand by our T&C in this case.

If i can elaborate a little regarding why we have terms like these.
We are trying to have as a generous welcome offer as possible, both to give players a great start to trying our casino and also due to market situation in today's competitive online casino landscape. In a perfect world we would not need to have any special terms and could have much bigger bonuses for all players to enjoy, but the problem is that the world is not perfect in this sense. Every bonus we ever created, and I am pretty sure my colleagues at other casinos will say the same, will get analyzed by parties looking for a way to abuse it, and these parties are getting more advanced and are finding more innovative ways to abuse the system. (I am of course not referring to normal recreational players who wants to get the best bonuses here). Every time a new way to abuse a bonus is used against the casinos the casinos need to respond, since the option would be to either make the bonuses a lot smaller or to even remove them completely. Since this would affect and punish all players it is not something that we would want to do, and there fore we update the T&C in ways where we feel we make minimum impact towards the majority of players who just wants to play casino and at the same time allows us to offer a competitive bonus offering.

Regarding the suggestion with having technical aids that make sure players stay within the bonus T&C we would absolutely love that, and if it was solely up to us to develop it i think we would. Problem here is that this is something that needs to be done together with the casino games providers, and with so many providers, and each provider having 100s of casinos all requesting different development it is not that simple to get done, and not due to us being lazy. It is actually the other way around, this would save us a lot of time and energy.

So going back to the OP I am terribly sorry that I cannot help you in this case, and I will be here to answer any questions, either in the thread or in a PM

Best Regards
Erik
 

asparkes15

Banned User - douchebag troll - threatening member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Location
grimsb
Hi All

Sorry for the delay, but just as Rainmaker guessed i was attending the affiliate conference in Amsterdam last week, usually the Internet is not an issue, but this time it was and it was borderline impossible to get on the line, so my apologizes for that.

Regarding the OP issue,
I have read through the entire thread and also checked internally around the case, and unfortunately it is a direct violation to our bonus terms and conditions. I know it might sound harsh but we must stand by our T&C in this case.

If i can elaborate a little regarding why we have terms like these.
We are trying to have as a generous welcome offer as possible, both to give players a great start to trying our casino and also due to market situation in today's competitive online casino landscape. In a perfect world we would not need to have any special terms and could have much bigger bonuses for all players to enjoy, but the problem is that the world is not perfect in this sense. Every bonus we ever created, and I am pretty sure my colleagues at other casinos will say the same, will get analyzed by parties looking for a way to abuse it, and these parties are getting more advanced and are finding more innovative ways to abuse the system. (I am of course not referring to normal recreational players who wants to get the best bonuses here). Every time a new way to abuse a bonus is used against the casinos the casinos need to respond, since the option would be to either make the bonuses a lot smaller or to even remove them completely. Since this would affect and punish all players it is not something that we would want to do, and there fore we update the T&C in ways where we feel we make minimum impact towards the majority of players who just wants to play casino and at the same time allows us to offer a competitive bonus offering.

Regarding the suggestion with having technical aids that make sure players stay within the bonus T&C we would absolutely love that, and if it was solely up to us to develop it i think we would. Problem here is that this is something that needs to be done together with the casino games providers, and with so many providers, and each provider having 100s of casinos all requesting different development it is not that simple to get done, and not due to us being lazy. It is actually the other way around, this would save us a lot of time and energy.

So going back to the OP I am terribly sorry that I cannot help you in this case, and I will be here to answer any questions, either in the thread or in a PM

Best Regards
Erik

Ah just read this. Makes so much sense
 

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