Super monopoly money slot

[CasinoTwitcher]

Eh?? You've contradicted yourself, as if it DID have 100% RTP then (using your logic that you are gambling 50MM) you would not have values less than 5x on the wheel....can't have it both ways mate!

The 100% RTP on the wheel is obv for the long run, if not all prizes on the wheel would have been 5x.

10MM = €50, that's just un-debatable. As you can cash them out at any time for a value of €50, and you have to start a new wager placing the value of €50 when you bet them on the wheel.

 

[CasinoTwitcher]

Sorry to bump this thread.

Noticed this game has vanished from a couple of casinos I play (most surprising was Casumo) and was wondering if others were sharing in my line of thought in that the slot was being abused via the SMM Wheel/Cash Out feature.

Can understand if this is the case but totally unfair on genuine players and I'm sure I had a couple of quid in the SMM 'Bank' which is like having £10 stolen If I really wanted to be picky!

Thoughts please!

Sorry I missed the question in this thread

I've been told that SMM is removed because of stuck game rounds that would not resume, it will be back when WMS have a fix for it.

It's possible to abuse it bonus money wise (most casinos are aware and might close your account), but so are so many other games. If they wanted to remove those games, a lot of games would have vanished.

 

[Jono777]

Sorry I missed the question in this thread

I've been told that SMM is removed because of stuck game rounds that would not resume, it will be back when WMS have a fix for it.

It's possible to abuse it bonus money wise (most casinos are aware and might close your account), but so are so many other games. If they wanted to remove those games, a lot of games would have vanished.

Thanks CT!

I would not dream of abuse, I'm a stickler for rules and have always behaved in the online casino world.

I was more slightly annoyed that I had possibly lost out (albeit a small amount) because of those who tried to take advantage.

I had about 1.70 in the SMM bank @ Casumo (IIRC) which could have provided a minimum of 8.50e which when my budget is done for the week could go along way on DOA 0.09 bets

 

[CasinoTwitcher]

I had about 1.70 in the SMM bank @ Casumo (IIRC) which could have provided a minimum of 8.50e which when my budget is done for the week could go along way on DOA 0.09 bets

Hopefully it will still be there when the game comes back, if not a message to support might help.

 

[dunover]

The 100% RTP on the wheel is obv for the long run, if not all prizes on the wheel would have been 5x.

10MM = €50, that's just un-debatable. As you can cash them out at any time for a value of €50, and you have to start a new wager placing the value of €50 when you bet them on the wheel.

Nope. the wheel RTP is a 'sub-RTP' of the overall game, exactly in the same manner as a bonus round is (see the kktmd stats).

As the wheel is merely part of the overall TRTP of this 96% game, it is impossible to state whether on its own is has a 100% RTP, 90% RTP or whichever, without context from the rest of the game.

10MM Is only £50 if you don't use the wheel. It is £10 when you do.

Lastly, in case I am not understanding that grass is green:

I load up the game with £1.05. I get a free parking spins feature with that spin. I win 100x, then gamble this 100x on the wheel and hit 200x.

Have, or have I not, just won 20,000 x my stake for that game/spin/credit??

 

[Jono777]

You have indeed!

Then you wake in a cold sweat and decide to play a 'proper game'

 

[babyjoker]

Having thought about it a little more (and if it does play exactly the same as the offline version), I'd probably have a spin with the first £100 and take the other 750 whatever happened. Minimum win 850ish with the thrill of the wheel spin too.

It doesn't play like that online, you spin it all in one go and hit 1x everytime lol, you might get a 7x on a low amount but Iv witnessed countless big spins to only ever land on 1x. Upto the op though but Id cashout and take the 5x

Edit: think I may of just responded to a year old comment lol, my bad!!

 

[CasinoTwitcher]

Nope. the wheel RTP is a 'sub-RTP' of the overall game, exactly in the same manner as a bonus round is (see the kktmd stats).

As the wheel is merely part of the overall TRTP of this 96% game, it is impossible to state whether on its own is has a 100% RTP, 90% RTP or whichever, without context from the rest of the game.

If the wheel was included in the base RTP, you would lose more by spinning the wheel than not. That's not how it works. - If the wheel was included in the RTP, the bet would also count toward wagers in the casino, and it does not.

10MM Is only £50 if you don't use the wheel. It is £10 when you do.

Are you serious? If the wheel was not there, you would have get paid €50 for 10 MM, how can you then say the value is €10? It's €50 when you win it, and €50 when you spin it! If you collect it or not is your own decisions, but it's 100% sure that the wheel spin is a separate bet you make. You can win more from the original win, like in any other slot, but it's not within the same game round.

Lastly, in case I am not understanding that grass is green:

I load up the game with £1.05. I get a free parking spins feature with that spin. I win 100x, then gamble this 100x on the wheel and hit 200x.

Have, or have I not, just won 20,000 x my stake for that game/spin/credit??

The problem here is that you see a 100 MM win as a 100x win... It's not. A 100 MM win gives you €100 to your account first, and then 100 MM sent to the wheel which you can cash out as €500. How in the world is that not a 600x win?

You have NOT won 20.000 x your stake, as you first stake €1.05, and then place a new stake of 100 MM (€500) on the wheel spin.

 

[dunover]

If the wheel was included in the base RTP, you would lose more by spinning the wheel than not. That's not how it works. - If the wheel was included in the RTP, the bet would also count toward wagers in the casino, and it does not.

Of course the wheel is part of the TRTP of the slot!!! It IS included! The wheel bet and result is simply the product of one or more spins in the base game - these spins are INCLUDED in the RTP! Can you really not grasp this? Please e-mail WMS and they will confirm this for you. The wheel game has the same algorithm as a typical bonus round on any other slot, it has exactly the same relationship to RTP as the raging Rhino bonus round, or any other slot's bonus. It just so happens that it has a part-cumulative element, as many other games do like TR2.


Are you serious? If the wheel was not there, you would have get paid €50 for 10 MM, how can you then say the value is €10? It's €50 when you win it, and €50 when you spin it! If you collect it or not is your own decisions, but it's 100% sure that the wheel spin is a separate bet you make. You can win more from the original win, like in any other slot, but it's not within the same game round.



The problem here is that you see a 100 MM win as a 100x win... It's not. A 100 MM win gives you €100 to your account first, and then 100 MM sent to the wheel which you can cash out as €500. How in the world is that not a 600x win?

You have NOT won 20.000 x your stake, as you first stake €1.05, and then place a new stake of 100 MM (€500) on the wheel spin.

It's not a bloomin' 600x win as I keep trying to tell you, because in my example I have spun the wheel and NOT collected the 5x MM but gambled it and got the 200x!! The 5xMM is nothing more than the equivalent of the Bonus Guarantee on say Rhino, but in this case you can try for a bigger one. As I'm sure you've guessed the wheel is nothing more than a 'reveal' choice which gives a preselected outcome.

Are you for real? So playing 1 x 1.05 spin on the slot and taking 20,000x stake (plus the 100 in your account as you remind us) means I have NOT won in excess of 20,000 x stake.

Ermmmm. let's do the math:

I deposit 1.05. Win 100x on free parking triggered FS. I then proceed to wager 100MM and win the 200x jackpot on the wheel...

Let's see....mmmm my £1.05 x 100 +(100x200) = 21,105

If you're going to argue that, then further debate is pointless.

Yep! My tired brain tells me I have just won over 20,000 x stake! Even my calculator agrees with me!

 

[CasinoTwitcher]

It's not a bloomin' 600x win as I keep trying to tell you, because in my example I have spun the wheel and NOT collected the 5x MM but gambled it and got the 200x!! The 5xMM is nothing more than the equivalent of the Bonus Guarantee on say Rhino, but in this case you can try for a bigger one. As I'm sure you've guessed the wheel is nothing more than a 'reveal' choice which gives a preselected outcome.

That you as a experienced slot player can't see that you actually make two bets in this example is very strange.

First you win 600x, if you want or not. If you accept the win or not is one thing, but you can't say that the value of the prize is nothing less that 600x. Then you can chose to cash it out, save it, or spin it directly on the wheel. It's obvious not the same game round since you can save it for later, and add multiple MM to the wheel.

You also said earlier that the result will be the same in the long run if you spin the wheel or not, and that's my point to (but then the wheel can't have a RTP less than 100)! You also said that the wheel have a RTP or 96%. Those two statements just don't add up, take a look at the examples.

Example cash out: 10MM = €50 (100% RTP, as this is the real value of the 10 MM)

Example spin wheel: 10MM = €50 minus the 4% house edge you say the wheel have, then you have lost €2 on average for each spin. Resulting in an average return of €48 on the wheel.

In this example you lose money by spinning the wheel..

Ermmmm. let's do the math:

I deposit 1.05. Win 100x on free parking triggered FS. I then proceed to wager 100MM and win the 200x jackpot on the wheel...

Let's see....mmmm my £1.05 x 100 +(100x200) = 21,105

If you're going to argue that, then further debate is pointless.

Yep! My tired brain tells me I have just won over 20,000 x stake! Even my calculator agrees with me!

But you don't win 100x, you win 100MM, and 100MM does NOT equal to 100x which it seems like you think.

This is the same as saying you buy a lottery ticket for €1.00 and you win €10.00, then you buy a new ticket for €10.00 and win €100.00. Yes you have won €100 from €1, but it's not a 100x win, it's 2 x 10x wins. And exactly the same thing applies for the bonus wheel on SMM. You need 1 wager to win the MM, and then you make 1 more wager to bet those MM's.

You have also said that most of the potential is in the bonus wheel, but the potential is much higher in the MM free parking free spins. As you can cash out a 600x win from the bonus, but you can't even come close on the wheel.

 

[interlog]

That you as a experienced slot player can't see that you actually make two bets in this example is very strange.

First you win 600x, if you want or not. If you accept the win or not is one thing, but you can't say that the value of the prize is nothing less that 600x. Then you can chose to cash it out, save it, or spin it directly on the wheel. It's obvious not the same game round since you can save it for later, and add multiple MM to the wheel.

You also said earlier that the result will be the same in the long run if you spin the wheel or not, and that's my point to (but then the wheel can't have a RTP less than 100)! You also said that the wheel have a RTP or 96%. Those two statements just don't add up, take a look at the examples.

Example cash out: 10MM = €50 (100% RTP, as this is the real value of the 10 MM)

Example spin wheel: 10MM = €50 minus the 4% house edge you say the wheel have, then you have lost €2 on average for each spin. Resulting in an average return of €48 on the wheel.

In this example you lose money by spinning the wheel..



But you don't win 100x, you win 100MM, and 100MM does NOT equal to 100x which it seems like you think.

This is the same as saying you buy a lottery ticket for €1.00 and you win €10.00, then you buy a new ticket for €10.00 and win €100.00. Yes you have won €100 from €1, but it's not a 100x win, it's 2 x 10x wins. And exactly the same thing applies for the bonus wheel on SMM. You need 1 wager to win the MM, and then you make 1 more wager to bet those MM's.

You have also said that most of the potential is in the bonus wheel, but the potential is much higher in the MM free parking free spins. As you can cash out a 600x win from the bonus, but you can't even come close on the wheel.

It does at least equate to 100x considering the lowest the wheel gives you is a 1x multiplier. At that moment in time you would have won at least 2x bet. The "bonus round" then continues by spinning the wheel and all it can do is grow from there to make the multiplier higher than 2x.

All you do when earning monopoly money is saving the potential extra multiplier for later.

 

[dunover]

It does at least equate to 100x considering the lowest the wheel gives you is a 1x multiplier. At that moment in time you would have won at least 2x bet. The "bonus round" then continues by spinning the wheel and all it can do is grow from there to make the multiplier higher than 2x.

All you do when earning monopoly money is saving the potential extra multiplier for later.

Indeed. But he can't seem to grasp that the slot is simply another cumulative feature-based game like Tomb Raider 2, and over a certain time will pay 96% with a random proportion of the 96% coming from the wheel, which is simply a pre-selected outcome you 'reveal' by pressing the button. it works very similarly to Deal Or No Deal too.

He then contradicts himself thoroughly by stating the wheel "has a 100% RTP" and then repeatedly states that "in reality it pays 40x stake maximum as you are betting 5xMM" and of course that voids his own position because as you say you can win 1xMM which means that you have immediately got a temporary RTP of 20% on it, using his logic.

What he doesn't understand is that by refusing the 5xMM offer you are reverting to 1xMM, therefore that is the amount you are gambling on the wheel. In that context alone (as I've been frustrated in trying to point out) the wheel does indeed pay 100%.

CT is trying to have his cake and eat it here and is in an impossible position having argued two contradictory points.

EITHER he accepts the bet is actually 1x MM as I have pointed out and you infer above and then the wheel does indeed pay 100% with a max of 200x

OR he sticks with his own view that the wheel (despite it displaying 200x !!) only pays 40x and you are punting 5xMM on it therefore (as we all know and you observe above) being as it usually pays 2,3x has a variable RTP like the slot, of 96% NOT 100%.

His mistake is trying to separate the wheel from the base game. it's an integral part of the base-game feature, hence why you can't play the delayed cumulative feature using bonus money.

I have also pointed out it is possible to walk up to the game, stick 1 credit in and walk away having had one spin of the reels and got the feature and won with 20,000+ x your one credit. Apparently though, in fourth-dimensional math having a spin and walking away 20,000x stake better-off is erm... not actually 20,000x stake.

 

[interlog]

The way to see is that the wheel is an extension of the spin result. You have the option to accumulate these extensions but the principle is the same.

No different to Gemix that puts some of the winnings in a pot and releases it when you reach the next level. It is part of the money returned to the player and therefore part of the RTP. The difference is that with Gemix it is fixed rather than random with Monopoly Money (to an extend unless you select the cash out option rather than spin the wheel).

 

[Jono777]

Not sure which of you is 100% correct, but I do know the base game (as mentioned) has almost pathetic wins to compensate for the potential (but unlikely) huge wins that the wheel can theoretically provide.

Personal experience.

One session I hit a £50 SMM bonus round, £50 paid to direct / existing cash balance and a further £50 added to my SMM pot. (Some may argue I won £300 (£50+£250 if I decided to 'cash out' there and then))

However I decided Not to cash out Nor to spin the wheel and left the SMM pot for a rainy day (Eg: when budget busted or I fancied an extra punt one night)

2-3 Weeks later I reload the game with a very small cash balance (<£10 IIRC) I do not even do a single spin, hit spin wheel, cash out x5 for a £250 return - This could be seen as a 100% RTP maybe.

 

[dunover]

Not sure which of you is 100% correct, but I do know the base game (as mentioned) has almost pathetic wins to compensate for the potential (but unlikely) huge wins that the wheel can theoretically provide.

Personal experience.

One session I hit a £50 SMM bonus round, £50 paid to direct / existing cash balance and a further £50 added to my SMM pot. (Some may argue I won £300 (£50+£250 if I decided to 'cash out' there and then))

However I decided Not to cash out Nor to spin the wheel and left the SMM pot for a rainy day (Eg: when budget busted or I fancied an extra punt one night)

2-3 Weeks later I reload the game with a very small cash balance (<£10 IIRC) I do not even do a single spin, hit spin wheel, cash out x5 for a £250 return - This could be seen as a 100% RTP maybe.

LOL...It probably would by CT, if we conveniently forgot the MM was won on a different spin beforehand and was already calculated in the ongoing RTP. I hate the stupid game TBH, which as you say pays piss-poorly and has too much of the RTP weighted into the 'pick-me' round (which is what the wheel actually is). My scenario of hitting the 20,000+ x stake in one spin I think would be incredibly unlikely on the gimped WMS slots. It seems the player actually needs to have many spins beforehand to build-up the MM fund, and undoubtedly would have seen considerably less than a 96% return in the base game on the way.

 

[Jono777]

LOL...It probably would by CT, if we conveniently forgot the MM was won on a different spin beforehand and was already calculated in the ongoing RTP. I hate the stupid game TBH, which as you say pays piss-poorly and has too much of the RTP weighted into the 'pick-me' round (which is what the wheel actually is). My scenario of hitting the 20,000+ x stake in one spin I think would be incredibly unlikely on the gimped WMS slots. It seems the player actually needs to have many spins beforehand to build-up the MM fund, and undoubtedly would have seen considerably less than a 96% return in the base game on the way.

This is spot on!

My bonus round which paid me the £50 (normal balance) that day actually did pay me the £300.

Its just that WMS decide to (conveniently) nicely 'bank' a potential £250 of it in the hope that I spin the wheel and end up with 1x

I am fairly (ok hopefully) confident that if EVERY person who played this game IMMEDIATELY hit the '5x Cash Out' directly after EVERY bonus round the slot awarded and the wheel was NEVER spun then we'd see the TRTP pretty much spot on.

The way it is 'dressed up' or 'hidden' makes little difference and to pinch one of your sayings (more or less) 'Regardless of X, Y or Z we are at a -4% dis advantage the moment we load up the game'

 

[CasinoTwitcher]

Well it looks like we won't agree on this..

If the wheel had a different RTP than 100%, the game rules would have shown that the game had variable RTP and it does not, it's fixed. Since you have a choice to cash out the MM or spin them on the wheel, this does NOT reflect the payout, hence the wheel has to have 100% RTP since it's not changing the payout of the previous win.

You say that 10MM which is worth €50, decreases in value to €10 when you spin the wheel. Well the amount that get's multiplied is €10, but you have still wagered €50 to get those €10 spun on the wheel and multiplied. So in reality you are spinning the wheel with a €50 bet with multipliers ranging from 0.20x to 40x.

 

[spintee]

I love a good old debate

Only reason I am posting this is I forgot to opt out and had a barrage of emails, as I personally think the game is whack,

But at the end of the day no matter how may wheels are spun, Cards turned over if you bet a £1 and win 1k than thats a 1000x bet win, NO one can argue with that

 

[SpinUk]

Got lost a while ago, but an interesting debate from two experienced players, both of whom's opinions I respect

 

[dunover]

Well it looks like we won't agree on this..

If the wheel had a different RTP than 100%, the game rules would have shown that the game had variable RTP and it does not, it's fixed. Since you have a choice to cash out the MM or spin them on the wheel, this does NOT reflect the payout, hence the wheel has to have 100% RTP since it's not changing the payout of the previous win.

You say that 10MM which is worth €50, decreases in value to €10 when you spin the wheel. Well the amount that get's multiplied is €10, but you have still wagered €50 to get those €10 spun on the wheel and multiplied. So in reality you are spinning the wheel with a €50 bet with multipliers ranging from 0.20x to 40x.

1. The second paragraph I am not disagreeing with as I've been saying all along you wager 10MM for a 1-200x possible return. Even the wheel states that!
But you haven't wagered 50MM as such, but simply forfeited 40 of the 50MM to pay for the gamble on the wheel. You make the error of including the forfeited 40MM in the bet, and you have changed the wheel as a result to values of 0.2-40x.
In relation to separating the 10mm starting bet from the 50MM (which I have tried to do all along!) then the wheel would pay 100%, indeed in excess of 100% unless it only ever paid 1x. But forfeiting the 40MM means we cannot possibly state or assume that, unless we could prove beyond doubt that the average wheel returns long-term were at least a result of 5x or greater.

2. Further to the above, the forfeit of 40MM (surely even you can see this point!) means the wheel cannot possibly have an RTP of 100% but is variable. Over the long term, added to all variance in the base game, the results from the wheel and the base game combined will add up to 96%. This is exactly the same as most features work. The exceptions are those 'superbet' type games where the results are gimped according to stake, and features increased in frequency with higher stakes, like the Bastardcrest games or side-bet games.