Baptism by Fire - failed Sunset Slots

[vinylweatherman]

Wrong AGAIN!!!
I really think you need to do some in-depth research before you come here posting these incorrect sweeping statements.

Referring to the 130+ welcome offers on my SB site again: Only 27 of them are "Sticky" (Phantom) bonuses.
And those 27 are nearly all at RTG or Playtech casinos.

KK

It seems the rep is referring only to Rival casinos, but calling this "most casinos".

My experience is mostly Microgaming. Bonuses here are cashable once WR has been met, and max withdrawals are usually only set on free chips, and even here it's those free chips one gets to "try before you buy".

The WR on Microgaming is from 30x BONUS ONLY, up to 50x BONUS at a few sites. The majority use the standard 30x B, and the bonus becomes cashable once WR has been met. Strangely, Microgaming casinos rarely go bust, unlike Rival where casinos seem to be going bust all the time.

If a Microgaming operator can make a decent profit on 30x B WR, cashable boni, and no max cashouts, surely an equally clever Rival operator can do the same.


Many casinos now use max bet rules to prevent overly leveraged play, such as "max bet is 25% of the bonus credited". The max bet on the games can also be set in the software such that very large bets cannot be made.

The welcome bonus is what sells the casino to a player, so if they see draconian rules here, they will judge the casino on these, and will never know that most other boni don't have such draconian terms.

A Rival casino making it to accreditation breaks the mould, so why not break the mould that says Rival casino means sticky boni and max cashouts left, right and centre even when deposits are made.

It will also mean not offering those stupid 10000% boni that some dodgy operators have used to blind players to the fact that they are getting screwed by the smallprint. You won't see a 10000% bonus at any Microgaming casino, and even boni over 100% are pretty rare. The fairer bonus terms mean that it just isn't feasible to offer such stupidly high bonus percentages.

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

It seems the rep is referring only to Rival casinos, but calling this "most casinos".

My experience is mostly Microgaming. Bonuses here are cashable once WR has been met, and max withdrawals are usually only set on free chips, and even here it's those free chips one gets to "try before you buy".

The WR on Microgaming is from 30x BONUS ONLY, up to 50x BONUS at a few sites. The majority use the standard 30x B, and the bonus becomes cashable once WR has been met. Strangely, Microgaming casinos rarely go bust, unlike Rival where casinos seem to be going bust all the time.

If a Microgaming operator can make a decent profit on 30x B WR, cashable boni, and no max cashouts, surely an equally clever Rival operator can do the same.


Many casinos now use max bet rules to prevent overly leveraged play, such as "max bet is 25% of the bonus credited". The max bet on the games can also be set in the software such that very large bets cannot be made.

The welcome bonus is what sells the casino to a player, so if they see draconian rules here, they will judge the casino on these, and will never know that most other boni don't have such draconian terms.

A Rival casino making it to accreditation breaks the mould, so why not break the mould that says Rival casino means sticky boni and max cashouts left, right and centre even when deposits are made.

It will also mean not offering those stupid 10000% boni that some dodgy operators have used to blind players to the fact that they are getting screwed by the smallprint. You won't see a 10000% bonus at any Microgaming casino, and even boni over 100% are pretty rare. The fairer bonus terms mean that it just isn't feasible to offer such stupidly high bonus percentages.

Hi Vinylweatherman,
Thanks a lot for your input – as always comments from an experienced member such as yourself is always greatly appreciated.

The free chips here are mostly also for “try before you buy” style promotions and certainly though a player has the right to winnings off a free money bonus, most serious players know that you have to handle a bit more than a 20 free chip if you want some serious playtime/winnings.

The max cashout and wagering requirement certainly has been a big topic in our meetings since it was first addressed in the forums and I am sure that there will still be a fair amount of discussion (sometimes heated) around this issue on our side. In the meantime, we have decided to run some of our other promotions that are scheduled to go out with adjusted requirements and we will be monitoring the performance of these promotions closely.

In order for us to retain players and compete with other platforms (non-MGS - of course) in the US we have to offer higher bonuses. I certainly am a fan of lower bonuses and more flexibility when it comes to withdrawals. With everyone trying to get a foot in the door in the US, the bar certainly has been raised in terms of bonuses and although, not ideal, this is the situation that we are faced with at the moment.

Your point on lower bonuses with the adjusted requirements certainly has been well received and as mentioned above we are testing the waters on some promotions.

Thanks again for your valuable input,

Best,
SSS Ops

 

[Casinomeister]

Casino Fail

Unfortunately, I was informed earlier today about some disturbing news concerning the operations of this casino - not on a player level, but something else (marketing scheme) that to me is a deal-killer. There will probably be more information that can be given out publicly tomorrow, but for now the casino is no longer considered for Accreditation. I will explain later.

 

[Jericoton]

I was just about to post my first post on this well still going to... Made some deposits here lost some and yes bonus rules are awful but when you do not have many rivals to go for i decided to play on this one. Managed to do my first withdrawal also on this week. Verification process was fast (one day) and received payment in 36hours. No complaints.

 

[chuchu59]

LOL. Maybe they used a bad name. May I suggest that they use Sunrise next time.

 

[maphesto]

Sunset Slots have their own sister now (and there are two), I have read at several affiliate pages. mattsgame nailed it here (He meant Kings Chance), early in the thread:

BTW are you guys a sister to Kings Palace Casino? You are the only 2 Rivals that that have a maximum withdrawal of 20xb+d and a minimum $100 withdrawal and the terms are very similar for bonuses etc.

The sisters are Kings Chance (Rival) and Grand Fortune (RTG).

From Grand Fortune:

This website is owned and operated by Merus (UK) LTD, 37A Chippenham Mews, W9 2AN London, using the gaming license of its holding company Audeo NV.

From Kings Chance:

Kings Chance Casino, operated by Audeo N.V. E-Commerce Park Vredenberg Willemstad – Curaçao (hereafter “ANV”) is a company incorporated, licensed and regulated by the Government of Curacao for the purpose of operating an online casino. All matters relating to the gaming license are handled by ANV.

Just some info now when we are waiting for Bryan's explanation!

 

[mattsgame]

Sunset Slots have their own sister now (and there are two), I have read at several affiliate pages. mattsgame nailed it here (He meant Kings Chance), early in the thread:



The sisters are Kings Chance (Rival) and Grand Fortune (RTG).

From Grand Fortune:



From Kings Chance:



Just some info now when we are waiting for Bryan's explanation!

You are correct, not sure where I got Kings Palace from but they have the exact terms etc. I don't recall getting an answer either?

 

[maphesto]

I don't recall getting an answer either?

No, their owner was pulished on Kings Chance website and they didn't want us to know their owners.

 

[Balthazar]

Unfortunately, I was informed earlier today about some disturbing news concerning the operations of this casino - not on a player level, but something else (marketing scheme) that to me is a deal-killer. There will probably be more information that can be given out publicly tomorrow, but for now the casino is no longer considered for Accreditation. I will explain later.

Why "probably"? Remember that it is not slander if it's demonstrably true.

 

[maxd]

Why "probably"? Remember that it is not slander if it's demonstrably true.

You can safely assume that Bryan knows the difference between slander and a legitimate accusation or charge. But that's not the point. It's a question of inside industry information and what is or isn't suitable for publication. Standard stuff, tin foil hats not required for this one.

 

[Balthazar]

inside industry information and what is or isn't suitable for publication.

Ok, but if they break the rules for accreditation it's important for players to know exactly why ("marketing scheme" means nothing), as some players still play there. Also, I can't say that I'm a fan "inside industry" secrets.

 

[Nifty29]

Ok, but if they break the rules for accreditation it's important for players to know exactly why ("marketing scheme" means nothing), as some players still play there. Also, I can't say that I'm a fan "inside industry" secrets.

Every single industry in the world has "inside secrets" of one kind or another.

Whether you or I are a fan of it doesn't, and won't, change that fact.

Have you considered that by publicly airing certain information, one may be revealing one's sources who may well have spoken on condition of anonymity? You might also want to consider that Bryan has a family, and there are some elements of the industry who are happy to operate on the wrong side of many aspects of the law.

Personally, I'm happy that Bryan is looking out for OUR interests as players. The exact whys and whos are irrelevant to me, as I'm happy to take him at his word. I don't see why he should lay it all out just to satisfy someone's personal curiosity.....after all, if anyone keeps playing there after reading that Bryan will NOT allow this casino to even be considered for accreditation, then knowing a few more details isn't going to make any difference.

Not everything to do with online casinos is some kind of conspiracy.

 

[maxd]

Every single industry in the world has "inside secrets" of one kind or another.

Whether you or I are a fan of it doesn't, and won't, change that fact.

Quite so, and rather obvious I would think.

 

[maphesto]

Personally, I'm happy that Bryan is looking out for OUR interests as players. The exact whys and whos are irrelevant to me, as I'm happy to take him at his word.

The reason for a failing BbF is quite important to many players here! Some casinos who failed have continued to have many players from here, mainly US facing casinos. Lucky Club Casino failed because they couldn't decide whether they belong to Jackpot Capital or Intertops. Mainstreet casinos failed because they have bonus terms that are a bit unfair for non-US/non-Canadian players, according to Bryan. All these casinos are probably having a lot of players from here. I remember when Rushmore lost their act completely, still many players from here continued top play there. Their 10k freeroll...

Sunset Slots are US facing, of course the reason for their failure to become accredited is important. If Bryan puts them on reservation and on a player basis "good to go", players still are going to play there. If Bryan tells us that they have the same owners as known rogues (only an example) their player database from here will decrease as much as Rushmore's when they implemented the rule about deposit in the last two months to be able to play their freeroll...

My own thoughts when it comes to Sunset Slots and their "new" sister Grand Fortune:

Sunset Slots have paid players here very quickly, even during weekends, Are they going to do this at Grand Fortune as well? If so, they have to be the quickest RTG casino when it comes to non us players and ewallets. Am I right?

Can Sunset Slots rep answer this one?

 

[Balthazar]

Personally, I'm happy that Bryan is looking out for OUR interests as players. The exact whys and whos are irrelevant to me, as I'm happy to take him at his word.

Nifty the "you should trust Bryan" guilt trip is getting old. This isn't a trust issue, I was simply expressing my sentiment about not knowing important things.

 

[ChillBill]

tin foil hats not required

Wish Bryan had preempted that into his post, now I have to pack mine away

 

[maxd]

Ok, but if they break the rules for accreditation ....

Then Bryan will do what's necessary. Again, rather obvious, no?

This isn't a trust issue, I was simply expressing my sentiment about not knowing important things.

Yes, there are many important things in this world that you don't know and in many cases that would be because it's none of your business. Clearly that applies to most of the rest of us too. If this comes as a surprise to you then I can only assume you have a lot of trouble sleeping at night.

The point here is that a casino can fail BoF for many more reasons than they are a bad casino. The case at hand is pretty obviously not a "good casino, bad casino" issue, it's a behind-the-scenes / corporate thing. Seemed to me that was more-or-less implied by Bryan's statement. And no, you are not generally privy to that kind of information, nor should you be.

Read between the lines a little: information will be disclosed when the business people get their shit together and almost certainly not before. Live with it.

 

[Balthazar]

Live with it.

Did you guys feel like I was attacking Bryan? Because it looks like it.

Are you having a bad day Max?

 

[maxd]

Are you having a bad day Max?

Not particularly, thanks for asking.

Were you attacking Bryan? I wouldn't put it that way but your statements certainly seemed to me to be saying that you thought things you should know were being hidden from you. I'm saying no, what needs to shared will be in due course. One way or the other you need to make your peace with that.

AFAIK you have no reason to believe that Bryan would compromise the Accred list nor would he try and pull one over on the membership. Implying that he would is misguided at best. So yes, there is an element of trust here. Again, that should not come as a surprise.

 

[SunSet Slot Ops]

The reason for a failing BbF is quite important to many players here! Some casinos who failed have continued to have many players from here, mainly US facing casinos. Lucky Club Casino failed because they couldn't decide whether they belong to Jackpot Capital or Intertops. Mainstreet casinos failed because they have bonus terms that are a bit unfair for non-US/non-Canadian players, according to Bryan. All these casinos are probably having a lot of players from here. I remember when Rushmore lost their act completely, still many players from here continued top play there. Their 10k freeroll...

Sunset Slots are US facing, of course the reason for their failure to become accredited is important. If Bryan puts them on reservation and on a player basis "good to go", players still are going to play there. If Bryan tells us that they have the same owners as known rogues (only an example) their player database from here will decrease as much as Rushmore's when they implemented the rule about deposit in the last two months to be able to play their freeroll...

My own thoughts when it comes to Sunset Slots and their "new" sister Grand Fortune:

Sunset Slots have paid players here very quickly, even during weekends, Are they going to do this at Grand Fortune as well? If so, they have to be the quickest RTG casino when it comes to non us players and ewallets. Am I right?

Can Sunset Slots rep answer this one?

Hi Maphesto,

Of course we will strive to pay our players just as quickly on Grand Fortune as we do on Sunset - our main aim has always been (and will continue to be) to provide a seamless gaming experience for our players and we have carried this over to Grand Fortune. This means that you can look forward to the same level of service and quick payouts regardless of which brand your on.

Best,
SSS Ops

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty the "you should trust Bryan" guilt trip is getting old. This isn't a trust issue, I was simply expressing sentiment about not knowing important things.

So is the "everything is a conspiracy" BS fest.

He knows stuff that you don't, as as a consequence, he says Sunset can never become accredited. Good enough for me.....knowing the exact details won't change that.

What next? You want Max to publish all documents and communications relating to every PAB, including account numbers home addresses, so that you can accept the final decision he makes?

You see, it really IS a matter of trust.

 

[bigjohn]

I don't see it as a matter of trust or of needing to know or of inside info or having a bad day. To me the bottom line is that whoever the owner/webmaster of any given website is they will publish information they want to publish and will withhold information they don't want to publish, for whatever reason.

If that is good enough for you than that's fine, if it's not than you might have to do some digging yourself and see what you can find, anyways, Bryan did say he would explain later.

 

[maxd]

Well and concisely said.

 

[dunover]

Curiosity is natural, it's what makes us human and increase our understanding of things. On the other hand, if I wander down the street and find the Police have sealed it off and turn me back without explanation, that's OK. There could be a terrorist incident, a bomb scare, a building further down showing signs it's going to collapse or a gas leak. Whichever it is, the decision to stop me going down the street was for my safety. I'm glad they were looking out for me.

 

[chuchu59]

Did you guys feel like I was attacking Bryan? Because it looks like it.

Are you having a bad day Max?

I honestly don't think you were attacking Bryan. Its just that you wished to know more as previously most if not all BOF cases passed and one that fails certainly makes one concerned. By the same token Max isn't having a bad day. He always writes like that and that's why he is the PAB guy.