Stopping the reels make a difference ?

jamie

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I have been playing with play money at an RTG Casino and wonder if stopping the reels actually affects the outcome ? Seems like it does but ---??

Thanks ,
Jamie
 

dunover

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We've recently had this in detail on another thread. NO difference at all. Your win has already been selected, and you are downloading a video simulation of the reels reflecting your win (or not). Stopping the video just simply means you can play more spins per hour. That's why they do it.:oops:
 

Deanna

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This reminds there was something I did want to ask in the other thread and didn't get around to it.

If it's already predertmined, does that also include the bonus that you'll get if it's a feature where you say pick "1 of 3" bonuses? If this doesn't make sense my example (and reason I'm asking) is Texas Tycoon. If you get 3 oil wells does it matter which one you pick or is it already determined that it's going to be 8 wins or 25 regardless? I stress over which one I'm picking and wonder if it really matters, maybe whichever one I pick is going to be 8 no matter what.

Just wondering if anyone knows! Thanks! :)
 

dunover

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This reminds there was something I did want to ask in the other thread and didn't get around to it.

If it's already predertmined, does that also include the bonus that you'll get if it's a feature where you say pick "1 of 3" bonuses? If this doesn't make sense my example (and reason I'm asking) is Texas Tycoon. If you get 3 oil wells does it matter which one you pick or is it already determined that it's going to be 8 wins or 25 regardless? I stress over which one I'm picking and wonder if it really matters, maybe whichever one I pick is going to be 8 no matter what.

Just wondering if anyone knows! Thanks! :)

Yes, 'pick' type wins are preselected. The fact that often slots show you the other picks you didn't take and they are almost always better than the award you got is neither here nor there; simply you are seeing other possible amounts in the round. You can see this effect on MG slots by checking your balance BEFORE you pick and you know then which 'random' win your play has already preselected.....
 

Balthazar

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Yes, 'pick' type wins are preselected.

If they are (which I highly doubt), they aren't supposed to be.

You can see this effect on MG slots by checking your balance BEFORE you pick and you know then which 'random' win your play has already preselected.....

You can see this AFTER you've selected an option and AFTER the pick has been sent to the RNG.
 

dionysus

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If they are (which I highly doubt), they aren't supposed to be.



You can see this AFTER you've selected an option and AFTER the pick has been sent to the RNG.

They are. As recent as this week, I've spoken to one of the game developers. He freely admits, whether you 'play' the mini-game or not, the result is the same. If you'd like 2 examples, look at Squirrel Pike and Arctic at 3Dice. You can poke squirrels or choose stairs for mults and spins. But it's really irrelevant at the system has determined what the free spins and mult total will be from the stairs or the total from squirrels chosen regardless of which ones you choose.
 

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If they are (which I highly doubt), they aren't supposed to be.



You can see this AFTER you've selected an option and AFTER the pick has been sent to the RNG.

Aren't supposed to be? Who says? If you think about it, a pick round is really a different video representation (to liven up slot play) of an amount you could win on a spin. All you do is 'uncover' it instead of seeing reels. The amount is still random. The other amounts 'exposed' after you pick could be anything. They could put a picture of a hedgehog's testicles in the the other places once you have seen your win amount, it really doesn't matter.

If you really believe the pick sends a signal to the RNG AFTER the spin which awards the pick is completed, well...
All you are doing is instructing the graphics to change, exactly the same as you are when pressing 'stop' on the reels for quicker spins.

If you think about it, what you say is highly unlikely. We know reels are irrelevant, and are graphics from the server to inform you of what win you have already been awarded the microsecond you press start. So, in your scenario, this video hasn't been generated AFTER the win has been selected, but before. So you have selected a RN which selects an award with say 3 values attached to it, which you then select another RN for AFTER the graphics have been sent to your PC, which then awards you 1 of those 3 amounts and then changes your graphics? I doubt it. Not necessary and could be problematic.
 

Balthazar

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Aren't supposed to be? Who says?

I've not read all license agreements, but I know that it would be illegal to operate such a slot in land based casinos here (and we have all kinds of slots from the major providers):

"The outcome of a game on a slot machine must rest at all times on randomness even when the player can make choices."

Since land based casinos use softwares that are similar (and sometimes identical) to online slots, there's a good reason to believe that they use the same technology (for a lack of a better word) to "redistribute" the RTP. I'd also not be surprised if such a rule would exist in most online casino licensing agreements.

Also, the 3Dice rep stated recently on this forum that according to their license agreement, they have to treat all free spins individually like regular spins (and not as a bunch) and that he would be very surprised if all the major online casino providers would be any different than them.

Edit:
Source: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...e-spin-options-in-games-does-it-matter.54883/

So with the informations that I have, everything points out that choices have to be random, and so are free spins.
 

Balthazar

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They are. As recent as this week, I've spoken to one of the game developers. He freely admits, whether you 'play' the mini-game or not, the result is the same. If you'd like 2 examples, look at Squirrel Pike and Arctic at 3Dice. You can poke squirrels or choose stairs for mults and spins. But it's really irrelevant at the system has determined what the free spins and mult total will be from the stairs or the total from squirrels chosen regardless of which ones you choose.

Then your software developers should have a chat with Enzo, because he said the complete opposite. He also said that they were bound to it by regulatory requirements:

Capture.jpg

This was in response to "Picking free spin options in games .. does it matter?"
 

dionysus

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Why? Determining HOW many free spins you're going to receive in your FS round (from your single spin) doesn't negate what Enzo said there. Just because the game knows your FS is going to 20 x say 5, before you pick them, doesnt mean it's not sending you 20 independent spins. One is not contrary to the other at all.
 

Balthazar

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Why? Determining HOW many free spins you're going to receive in your FS round (from your single spin) doesn't negate what Enzo said there. Just because the game knows your FS is going to 20 x say 5, before you pick them, doesnt mean it's not sending you 20 independent spins. One is not contrary to the other at all.

I'm not familiar with 3dice, do all the possible outcomes have the same RTP? (20 x 1 or 5 x 4...)
 

dionysus

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As far as I know, the RTP is the same regardless of best size or mults. Pretty much all their games are very high variance. What I like, is their programmers actually pop in chat, so you can actually ask them or him if he's in a lot of the questions. When you see the FS or 'pick me' results, you see a lot of common wins. The results (big hits) of games come across chat pretty much as they're hit. The nice thing about it, is the results of everyone are VERY transparent (win wise, not loss wise lol).
 

Balthazar

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As far as I know, the RTP is the same regardless of best size or mults. Pretty much all their games are very high variance. What I like, is their programmers actually pop in chat, so you can actually ask them or him if he's in a lot of the questions. When you see the FS or 'pick me' results, you see a lot of common wins. The results (big hits) of games come across chat pretty much as they're hit. The nice thing about it, is the results of everyone are VERY transparent (win wise, not loss wise lol).

What I meant is if your pick is irrelevant, then the TRTP must stay the same for all possible outcomes. If it's possible to pick 20 spins at x5 multiplier but also possible to pick 20 spins at x2 multiplier, and it's predetermined, then it's NOT ok.

But if your options are 20 spins at x1, 10 spins at x2 and 5 spins at x4, then predetermined or not won't change your bonus TRTP and it would make it ok (although a bit unethical IMO).
 

Deanna

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I feel so stupid right now trying to understand all this.

3 Oil Rigs pop up but I can't see the result on Texas Tycoon.
Is the result going to be "8 FS" no matter if I pick A, B or C Oil Rig? Or is it really A=8 FS, B=25 FS, and C=10 FS and if happen to pick B I get the 25 FS?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse I just can't seem to figure out the answer reading through all the posts! :D
 

the_riz

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Yes, 'pick' type wins are preselected. The fact that often slots show you the other picks you didn't take and they are almost always better than the award you got is neither here nor there; simply you are seeing other possible amounts in the round. You can see this effect on MG slots by checking your balance BEFORE you pick and you know then which 'random' win your play has already preselected.....

Actually not always the case. An example would be the "Hitman" MG slot pick bonus. If say you pick reel 1 the first time in a session it will always be highest. next time you hit reel 2 will be the highest then reel 3. If you pick reel 3 first then that will be lowest. Its preselected in the fact that it will have the highest in sequence every time the bonus hits but you still have to hit them in sequence. Im very sure "The Osbournes" does this as well.
 

dunover

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We are going off at a slight tangent here - the OP asked whether 'pick' features were preselected, and these don't necessarily relate to freespins or multipliers, but cash amounts too.
We are agreeing they are, and the problem here is that some cannot equate this fact with 'randomness'.
What I am saying, and seemingly Dionysus, is that the OUTCOME is preselected on the pick rounds VIA the RNG, so having a pseudo videographic AFTER the RNG has been tapped is NOT compromising randomness or unethical. When you do the 'random pick' bit the random part has already happened. You are simply choosing on a videographic ex post facto to EXPOSE your win/award.
You could argue that even showing reels spinning is 'unethical' as the outcome is already decided. If that were the case, you may as well just play a blank screen with a cash balance in it. You press enter, and your cash balance goes down by your stake, or up if you win. (this is basically what we are doing gambling online) but we are all in it to be ENTERTAINED as well as gamble.
The entertainment part of it, whether reels, picks or video effects comes AFTER the RNG result. If people understood this these questions would occur far less.
 

Balthazar

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We are going off at a slight tangent here - the OP asked whether 'pick' features were preselected, and these don't necessarily relate to freespins or multipliers, but cash amounts too.
We are agreeing they are, and the problem here is that some cannot equate this fact with 'randomness'.
What I am saying, and seemingly Dionysus, is that the OUTCOME is preselected on the pick rounds VIA the RNG, so having a pseudo videographic AFTER the RNG has been tapped is NOT compromising randomness or unethical. When you do the 'random pick' bit the random part has already happened. You are simply choosing on a videographic ex post facto to EXPOSE your win/award.
You could argue that even showing reels spinning is 'unethical' as the outcome is already decided. If that were the case, you may as well just play a blank screen with a cash balance in it. You press enter, and your cash balance goes down by your stake, or up if you win. (this is basically what we are doing gambling online) but we are all in it to be ENTERTAINED as well as gamble.
The entertainment part of it, whether reels, picks or video effects comes AFTER the RNG result. If people understood this these questions would occur far less.

Here's a little test for you: Next time that you play a slot and you have a choice to make, disconnect from the internet and click on an option. You won't be able to do it because when you pick one the software has to make a request to the server (RNG) and THEN show you what it is. If it was part of the spin, you'd be able to see it anyway since you'd already have the data locally.

On the other hand, if you play Keno on MG, as soon as you click "play" you can see your "new" balance in the lobby of the software, even if the game isn't completed. Disconnecting after clicking play won't change anything: the game will continue and the cash balance will be updated, because you already have the data locally.

That's the 3rd thing that I bring to the table to support my theory, and you've yet to bring a single one. You'll have to work harder here dunover.
 

dunover

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Here's a little test for you: Next time that you play a slot and you have a choice to make, disconnect from the internet and click on an option. You won't be able to do it because when you pick one the software has to make a request to the server (RNG) and THEN show you what it is. If it was part of the spin, you'd be able to see it anyway since you'd already have the data locally.
On the other hand, if you play Keno on MG, as soon as you click "play" you can see your "new" balance in the lobby of the software, even if the game isn't completed. Disconnecting after clicking play won't change anything: the game will continue and the cash balance will be updated, because you already have the data locally.

That's the 3rd thing that I bring to the table to support my theory, and you've yet to bring a single one. You'll have to work harder here dunover.

You've brought nothing to the table at all. You clearly don't understand the issue. OF COURSE disconnecting from the internet will prevent you from clicking an option because when disconnected you can't download the rest of the interactive videographic sequence lol:D

A clever but futile attempt to dig yourself out.:)
 

dunover

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Actually not always the case. An example would be the "Hitman" MG slot pick bonus. If say you pick reel 1 the first time in a session it will always be highest. next time you hit reel 2 will be the highest then reel 3. If you pick reel 3 first then that will be lowest. Its preselected in the fact that it will have the highest in sequence every time the bonus hits but you still have to hit them in sequence. Im very sure "The Osbournes" does this as well.

OK, you agree they are preselected but this example encroaches upon the 'randomness' question because that shoudn't happen!
 

Nifty29

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I feel so stupid right now trying to understand all this.

3 Oil Rigs pop up but I can't see the result on Texas Tycoon.
Is the result going to be "8 FS" no matter if I pick A, B or C Oil Rig? Or is it really A=8 FS, B=25 FS, and C=10 FS and if happen to pick B I get the 25 FS?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse I just can't seem to figure out the answer reading through all the posts! :D

Actually, an RTG game tester who used to post here told us that Texas tycoon is one of the only RTG slots where the icon you choose makes a difference.

I will pm him and ask him to chime in.
 

Balthazar

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You've brought nothing to the table at all. You clearly don't understand the issue. OF COURSE disconnecting from the internet will prevent you from clicking an option because when disconnected you can't download the rest of the interactive videographic sequence lol:D

What? Everything is already downloaded and stored locally. If it works for Keno, it should work for "pick me" too.
 
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