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Resolved Stay away from Jetbull!

Discussion in 'Poker Complaints' started by canayimben, Jul 3, 2012.

    Jul 3, 2012
  1. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Jetbull.com is not paying my winnings! I have made a withdrawal request on 29/06 and from this time until today they were telling me like that below;

    02/07/2012 14:24Lester Li: but the person in charge of payments is not available for now, he will come to work tomorrow
    02/07/2012 14:24Lester Li: he promises he will take care of all the withdrawals then
    02/07/2012 17:43Alexandru Mares: Tomorrow morning it will be approved and we will process them as soon as possible
    03/07/2012 10:46Candy Xie: Our relevant person will deal with your issue quickly
    process them as soon as possible
    03/07/2012 10:46Candy Xie: I will also inform him one more time
    process them as soon as possible
    03/07/2012 10:48Candy Xie: I will treat your issue as vip

    But now a few minutes ago when i connected to the live-chat the operator said to me that there is something wrong with my account and this is the reason that they can not pay me. He even did not tell me the reason and shut the chat even though i asked them to call me or send me e-mails.

    Has anyoneelse having problem with that company?
     
  2. Jul 3, 2012
  3. conker

    conker CM Advisory Group admin - Meister Minions Manager CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Marketer
    Location:
    UK
    Wow, wasn't sure this site was still around. There was a time when ex-racing driver David Coultard was an ambassador for them, not anymore I doubt.

    You should really submit a PAB (pitch a bitch) to Max if you haven't done already. This stops all the speculation and will probably give you a much better chance of getting your money back. Here is a link to the PAB FAQ's http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/faq.php?faq=cmfaq_pab. I would check first before submitting.

    Best of luck.
     
  4. Jul 3, 2012
  5. conker

    conker CM Advisory Group admin - Meister Minions Manager CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Marketer
    Location:
    UK
    By they way, I see it was your first post, so welcome to the forum.
     
  6. Jul 3, 2012
  7. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    I did now, thank you.
     
  8. Jul 4, 2012
  9. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Dear Canay,

    Your account has been blocked because of chip dumping. We made an investigation and found that this was not your first case of chip dumping. Your account will keep blocked.

    Best regards,

    Lester Li,
    Jetbull Support



    OMG!!! I have been playing poker for 7 years but never done this chip dumping before. I only have self excluded me on cakepoker.com like 3 years ago and thats it!!!
    how profeessional sending this email but nothing else? Whats gonna happen to my winnings? Where are the proofs that i have done chip dumping? Where are the screenshots from cakepoker that i have done chip dumping? This is so ridiculous !!! To whom i have done this chipdumping? Which hands...
     
  10. Jul 4, 2012
  11. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    They just dont want to pay me my winnings so they are falsely accusing me of chip dumping and also accusing me of having done this before.
    Completely ridiculous...
     
  12. Jul 4, 2012
  13. mn001

    mn001 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Troll
    Location:
    Casino
    did you win much from some specific player(s)?
     
  14. Jul 4, 2012
  15. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Yes, heads up, OMAHA, won about 7 K USD.

    But so what? Cheking the hand histories just would be fine.

    ?
     
  16. Jul 4, 2012
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They believe YOU have received chips dumped by other players, so are keeping hold of the money. These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players.

    Added to this, they claim to have evidence that you have been involved before, either as a recipient of funds, or a chip dumper yourself.

    This is a big problem with online poker, and it seems easy for innocent players to get accused of this because the evidence is based on how all players at a table have played, and a bad poker player who loses a fortune can look like a chip dumper, which also means an innocent winning player finds their winnings voided, even though they did nothing other than take advantage of a bad player prepared to lose a fortune.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Jul 4, 2012
  19. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Thank you for your response.
    "These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players."
    I agree here, but where is my fault or innocent player's fault? How could i check anyone before playing if they are fraud, playing with stolen money etc. ? in order to be sure that i will get paid without any problems?
    The money is about 7K Usd, i have done NOTHING wrong and i will continue pursuing this since i have a valid case.
     
  20. Jul 4, 2012
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    This is the problem. An innocent party does not gain title to stolen goods or money, even if they could not have known. It is a particular problem with online poker because of the anonymity enjoyed by your opponents. You have to rely on the network finding out they are frauds or cheats, and clearly in this case this was only done when it was too late for you.

    The confiscated money does not belong to the poker room either, but to the original owner from which it was extracted. A poker room which keeps money it confiscates for being stolen, or the result of money laundering, is also going to be guilty of "receiving" should it keep it for profit. If they cannot return it to the original owner, nor find evidence that it is stolen or the proceeds of crime in the act of being laundered, then legally it is yours. It can take some time until they can be sure it is illegal money, so you should continue to pursue the matter, and at least demand evidence that the money has been returned to the original owners or surrendered to whatever authority has relevance.

    Chip dumping is done to move the proceeds of crime to someone else such that they can be "laundered". If this 7K has been dumped to you, then somewhere there is a victim who has had 7K stolen from them, or a crime gang that have made 7K through illegal activities, in which case the money is forefeit to the authorities.
     
  22. Jul 4, 2012
  23. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    I totally understand you but this should be poker company's problem but not the innocent player's isnt it?

    It should be poker company's responsibility to make the relevant fraud and security checks but not the player's.

    Worst scenario; even if there are fraudelent issues or stolen money involed in this problem, the poker company needs to compensate it by paying the money "even from their pocket" to the innocent player in order to have a good reputation against the other players.

    Do you aggree on this?
     
  24. Jul 4, 2012
  25. mn001

    mn001 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Troll
    Location:
    Casino
    Request complete HH's, post here or over at that other some number + some number forum.
     
  26. Jul 4, 2012
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They should, but poker companies don't have money at the tables, players do. Poker companies only make money from the rake, and probably feel that to carry the can would cost too much, so an innocent player also suffers as well as the guilty.

    Your main defense is to challenge the claim that chip dumping took place at all. This can be done through getting hand histories for the table that you won this 7K from. You would then be able to ask other poker experts whether it is fair to claim this is evidence of chip dumping. If you can show that they have no grounds for determining chip dumping took place, they would have no grounds to hang on to your winnings.

    The 2+2 forum is better than this one for such poker related investigations, it being the forum that most cheating poker operators fear, especially Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet;)
     
  28. Jul 4, 2012
  29. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Thank you, i will take this subject to that forum as well and if i could get the hand histories! i will post all of them here so that everyone will see how the game went...
     
  30. Jul 5, 2012
  31. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    Hello,

    I got an email from their support saying that they have processed my withdrawal requests.

    Thank you very much everyone and thank you Max for your help !
     
  32. Jul 5, 2012
  33. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    You are welcome but next time you are considering a PAB please read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. If I had known you were busy posting here on the forums while you also submitted a PAB I would probably have set your PAB aside. Please read the FAQ for details.
     
  34. Jul 5, 2012
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's quite a U turn given how serious an issue chip dumping is:confused:

    Did they just pluck the accusation out of their a*** and cave in as soon as the player showed he wasn't a push over?

    If they had good evidence of chip dumping I can't see how they can change their minds so quickly:confused:

    It makes it look like such accusations are just spat out without due process, and players that don't fight back just get screwed.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jul 5, 2012
  37. canayimben

    canayimben Banned User - multiple forum accounts

    Occupation:
    online marketing
    Location:
    UK
    During the time, first they told me that they have problems with the payment providers thats the reason of the delay. Then one day later they said you have done chip dumping and your account was blocked, after that i really thought that "They just dont want to pay me my winnings so they are falsely accusing me of chip dumping and also accusing me of having done this before." cause i have absolutely done NOTHING in terms of chip dumping.

    Now after asking all the screenshots, hand histories, proofs... they did the right thing and changed their mind. Because they just can not proof this chipdumping since all the hands were clear and as a LGA licensed company, they just cant cover this subject up.
    Anyone who just feels innocent ant thinks that he is right, has to fight back till the end.
     
  38. Jul 5, 2012
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    .... they can do what the hell they like:rolleyes:

    They have a wealth of evidence against you, not only this incident, but that you have "done this before", so in their view, a "serial offender" rather than a one off lapse of judgement. No sooner do you start asking for hand histories, they have a rethink that results in a U turn and payment.

    What evidence did they REALLY have that they felt so flimsy it wouldn't even stand up to an amateur review of the hand histories.

    The problem with the LGA is that this year alone they have been caught napping TWICE, and on both occasions player funds, supposedly kept separate from operator funds as part of the terms for having an LGA license, have all but disappeared from under the noses of the LGA regulators.

    Had Jetbull decided to keep up this BS excuse, you would have found the LGA less useful than a chocolate teapot in getting redress.
     

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