Resolved Stay away from Jetbull!

[canayimben]

Jetbull.com is not paying my winnings! I have made a withdrawal request on 29/06 and from this time until today they were telling me like that below;

02/07/2012 14:24Lester Li: but the person in charge of payments is not available for now, he will come to work tomorrow
02/07/2012 14:24Lester Li: he promises he will take care of all the withdrawals then
02/07/2012 17:43Alexandru Mares: Tomorrow morning it will be approved and we will process them as soon as possible
03/07/2012 10:46Candy Xie: Our relevant person will deal with your issue quickly
process them as soon as possible
03/07/2012 10:46Candy Xie: I will also inform him one more time
process them as soon as possible
03/07/2012 10:48Candy Xie: I will treat your issue as vip

But now a few minutes ago when i connected to the live-chat the operator said to me that there is something wrong with my account and this is the reason that they can not pay me. He even did not tell me the reason and shut the chat even though i asked them to call me or send me e-mails.

Has anyoneelse having problem with that company?

 

[conker]

Wow, wasn't sure this site was still around. There was a time when ex-racing driver David Coultard was an ambassador for them, not anymore I doubt.

You should really submit a PAB (pitch a bitch) to Max if you haven't done already. This stops all the speculation and will probably give you a much better chance of getting your money back. Here is a link to the PAB FAQ's https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/. I would check first before submitting.

Best of luck.

 

[conker]

By they way, I see it was your first post, so welcome to the forum.

 

[canayimben]

I did now, thank you.

 

[canayimben]

Dear Canay,

Your account has been blocked because of chip dumping. We made an investigation and found that this was not your first case of chip dumping. Your account will keep blocked.

Best regards,

Lester Li,
Jetbull Support



OMG!!! I have been playing poker for 7 years but never done this chip dumping before. I only have self excluded me on cakepoker.com like 3 years ago and thats it!!!
how profeessional sending this email but nothing else? Whats gonna happen to my winnings? Where are the proofs that i have done chip dumping? Where are the screenshots from cakepoker that i have done chip dumping? This is so ridiculous !!! To whom i have done this chipdumping? Which hands...

 

[canayimben]

They just dont want to pay me my winnings so they are falsely accusing me of chip dumping and also accusing me of having done this before.
Completely ridiculous...

 

[mn001]

did you win much from some specific player(s)?

 

[canayimben]

Yes, heads up, OMAHA, won about 7 K USD.

But so what? Cheking the hand histories just would be fine.

?

 

[vinylweatherman]

They believe YOU have received chips dumped by other players, so are keeping hold of the money. These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players.

Added to this, they claim to have evidence that you have been involved before, either as a recipient of funds, or a chip dumper yourself.

This is a big problem with online poker, and it seems easy for innocent players to get accused of this because the evidence is based on how all players at a table have played, and a bad poker player who loses a fortune can look like a chip dumper, which also means an innocent winning player finds their winnings voided, even though they did nothing other than take advantage of a bad player prepared to lose a fortune.

 

[canayimben]

They believe YOU have received chips dumped by other players, so are keeping hold of the money. These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players.

Added to this, they claim to have evidence that you have been involved before, either as a recipient of funds, or a chip dumper yourself.

This is a big problem with online poker, and it seems easy for innocent players to get accused of this because the evidence is based on how all players at a table have played, and a bad poker player who loses a fortune can look like a chip dumper, which also means an innocent winning player finds their winnings voided, even though they did nothing other than take advantage of a bad player prepared to lose a fortune.

Thank you for your response.
"These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players."
I agree here, but where is my fault or innocent player's fault? How could i check anyone before playing if they are fraud, playing with stolen money etc. ? in order to be sure that i will get paid without any problems?
The money is about 7K Usd, i have done NOTHING wrong and i will continue pursuing this since i have a valid case.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you for your response.
"These other players are likely to have had their accounts closed as well, and the money you have may turn out to be stolen or invalid in another way, and has to be given back to the network or other players."
I agree here, but where is my fault or innocent player's fault? How could i check anyone before playing if they are fraud, playing with stolen money etc. ? in order to be sure that i will get paid without any problems?
The money is about 7K Usd, i have done NOTHING wrong and i will continue pursuing this since i have a valid case.

This is the problem. An innocent party does not gain title to stolen goods or money, even if they could not have known. It is a particular problem with online poker because of the anonymity enjoyed by your opponents. You have to rely on the network finding out they are frauds or cheats, and clearly in this case this was only done when it was too late for you.

The confiscated money does not belong to the poker room either, but to the original owner from which it was extracted. A poker room which keeps money it confiscates for being stolen, or the result of money laundering, is also going to be guilty of "receiving" should it keep it for profit. If they cannot return it to the original owner, nor find evidence that it is stolen or the proceeds of crime in the act of being laundered, then legally it is yours. It can take some time until they can be sure it is illegal money, so you should continue to pursue the matter, and at least demand evidence that the money has been returned to the original owners or surrendered to whatever authority has relevance.

Chip dumping is done to move the proceeds of crime to someone else such that they can be "laundered". If this 7K has been dumped to you, then somewhere there is a victim who has had 7K stolen from them, or a crime gang that have made 7K through illegal activities, in which case the money is forefeit to the authorities.

 

[canayimben]

I totally understand you but this should be poker company's problem but not the innocent player's isnt it?

It should be poker company's responsibility to make the relevant fraud and security checks but not the player's.

Worst scenario; even if there are fraudelent issues or stolen money involed in this problem, the poker company needs to compensate it by paying the money "even from their pocket" to the innocent player in order to have a good reputation against the other players.

Do you aggree on this?

 

[mn001]

Request complete HH's, post here or over at that other some number + some number forum.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I totally understand you but this should be poker company's problem but not the innocent player's isnt it?

It should be poker company's responsibility to make the relevant fraud and security checks but not the player's.

Worst scenario; even if there are fraudelent issues or stolen money involed in this problem, the poker company needs to compensate it by paying the money "even from their pocket" to the innocent player in order to have a good reputation against the other players.

Do you aggree on this?

They should, but poker companies don't have money at the tables, players do. Poker companies only make money from the rake, and probably feel that to carry the can would cost too much, so an innocent player also suffers as well as the guilty.

Your main defense is to challenge the claim that chip dumping took place at all. This can be done through getting hand histories for the table that you won this 7K from. You would then be able to ask other poker experts whether it is fair to claim this is evidence of chip dumping. If you can show that they have no grounds for determining chip dumping took place, they would have no grounds to hang on to your winnings.

The 2+2 forum is better than this one for such poker related investigations, it being the forum that most cheating poker operators fear, especially Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet

 

[canayimben]

Thank you, i will take this subject to that forum as well and if i could get the hand histories! i will post all of them here so that everyone will see how the game went...

 

[canayimben]

Hello,

I got an email from their support saying that they have processed my withdrawal requests.

Thank you very much everyone and thank you Max for your help !

 

[maxd]

Thank you very much everyone and thank you Max for your help !

You are welcome but next time you are considering a PAB please read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. If I had known you were busy posting here on the forums while you also submitted a PAB I would probably have set your PAB aside. Please read the FAQ for details.

 

[vinylweatherman]

That's quite a U turn given how serious an issue chip dumping is

Did they just pluck the accusation out of their a*** and cave in as soon as the player showed he wasn't a push over?

If they had good evidence of chip dumping I can't see how they can change their minds so quickly

It makes it look like such accusations are just spat out without due process, and players that don't fight back just get screwed.

 

[canayimben]

That's quite a U turn given how serious an issue chip dumping is

Did they just pluck the accusation out of their a*** and cave in as soon as the player showed he wasn't a push over?

If they had good evidence of chip dumping I can't see how they can change their minds so quickly

It makes it look like such accusations are just spat out without due process, and players that don't fight back just get screwed.

During the time, first they told me that they have problems with the payment providers thats the reason of the delay. Then one day later they said you have done chip dumping and your account was blocked, after that i really thought that "They just dont want to pay me my winnings so they are falsely accusing me of chip dumping and also accusing me of having done this before." cause i have absolutely done NOTHING in terms of chip dumping.

Now after asking all the screenshots, hand histories, proofs... they did the right thing and changed their mind. Because they just can not proof this chipdumping since all the hands were clear and as a LGA licensed company, they just cant cover this subject up.
Anyone who just feels innocent ant thinks that he is right, has to fight back till the end.

 

[vinylweatherman]

During the time, first they told me that they have problems with the payment providers thats the reason of the delay. Then one day later they said you have done chip dumping and your account was blocked, after that i really thought that "They just dont want to pay me my winnings so they are falsely accusing me of chip dumping and also accusing me of having done this before." cause i have absolutely done NOTHING in terms of chip dumping.

Now after asking all the screenshots, hand histories, proofs... they did the right thing and changed their mind. Because they just can not proof this chipdumping since all the hands were clear and as a LGA licensed company, they just cant cover this subject up.
Anyone who just feels innocent ant thinks that he is right, has to fight back till the end.

.... they can do what the hell they like

They have a wealth of evidence against you, not only this incident, but that you have "done this before", so in their view, a "serial offender" rather than a one off lapse of judgement. No sooner do you start asking for hand histories, they have a rethink that results in a U turn and payment.

What evidence did they REALLY have that they felt so flimsy it wouldn't even stand up to an amateur review of the hand histories.

The problem with the LGA is that this year alone they have been caught napping TWICE, and on both occasions player funds, supposedly kept separate from operator funds as part of the terms for having an LGA license, have all but disappeared from under the noses of the LGA regulators.

Had Jetbull decided to keep up this BS excuse, you would have found the LGA less useful than a chocolate teapot in getting redress.

 

[annihilus]

About Jetbull...

some years ago they had a lot of problems... after during the promo period of David Coulthard things were going well. Good customer care and for affiliates good assistance. But again they had problems and they sold to Every MAtrix (Odds Matrix). From this time all begin to go bad. They changed in bad the affiliate program and they will begin to be very slow in payments (players and affiliates) and sometimes a lot of chaos. This situation affect not only jetBull but all the Sportsbooks managed by Odds Matrix. They have not a good reputation.

 

[rainmaker]

About Jetbull...

some years ago they had a lot of problems... after during the promo period of David Coulthard things were going well. Good customer care and for affiliates good assistance. But again they had problems and they sold to Every MAtrix (Odds Matrix). From this time all begin to go bad. They changed in bad the affiliate program and they will begin to be very slow in payments (players and affiliates) and sometimes a lot of chaos. This situation affect not only jetBull but all the Sportsbooks managed by Odds Matrix. They have not a good reputation.

Hi there

I must disagree with you on this. I think they have become a very good casino alternative, with an impressive selection of games (IGT, Microgaming, NetEnt and Play'n Go).

They also have a helpfull rep on this forum (for example most recently Here)

Jetbull was also discussed on this forum in October when the rep made several changes in their rules based on this feedback:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/jetbull-casino-player-experience-netent.53110/

 

[annihilus]

I respect your opinion. But my experience is how I posted.

 

[dionysus]

And not of course to say, bump up post count

 

[rainmaker]

And not of course to say, bump up post count

Yeah...I saw it after I wrote my post that this member was bumping many old threads only to increase his post count. Spammer who is "working in the gambling industry (according to his profile), so I would not take his "experience" too seriously.