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Spin Palace Payment Issue

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by gcrown, Feb 28, 2006.

    Feb 28, 2006
  1. gcrown

    gcrown Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self
    Location:
    usa
    Hi Everyone How about suggestions for casinos and users to help with the whole Id Verification process which in my experience has been a horrible nightmare on many attempts while the whole time, my withdrawal is being held as a ransom. My Hope is that active casinos like 32 red that read these threads will take to heart how bad this process can be for the customer and that due to the whole id process the casino is very likely to lose a customer for good when it could of been a real smooth no problem deal that turns ito weeks of watsed time and frustration for the customer. I am currently in the middle of trying to id verify for 8 days straight with now 6 emails with my scanned info and i am still getting the run around and my account has been open for 2 years!! I am using a high end scanner with perfect scans and the casino is still not happy for some reason , but due to the horrible communication of the casino I have no idea whats wrong they just keep sending an email for me to send my docs. This paticular casino is NOT 32 RED.
    All i know is I have spent over a week trying to make it right for the casino and they just arent happy, and I am frustrated because I am waiting for over 6,000.00 to be released which is alot of money to me! Suggestions for the casinos to speed up the id process and suggestions for all players regarding the best ways and tips to accomodate the casinos requirements is what I would love to hear. Dear Casinos, I refuse to play on sites that make it so hard to id verify, that I refuse to play there again and you just lost a customer for no reason! Lets make this a little easier! Maybe posting some horror id verify stories and constuctive suggestions will give some insight to the casinos on where to provide some help and customer service to the people who are playing daily and supporting their business!
     
  2. Feb 28, 2006
  3. managra

    managra Dormant account

    Occupation:
    finance
    Location:
    USA
    Well, based on the current online poker scandal (see cheating thread in the Poker forum) it's likely that ID doc will be requested more often. Even though the scandal is in poker, it's reasonable to expect that casinos will follow suit and impose more stringent requirements. They are concerned about the proposed US legislation and they will step up efforts to make sure they are not harboring underage gamblers and do the due diligence blablabla.

    The best thing to do is when you register with a casino is to email them about their ID doc requirements. If they want them, send them with the comment that you will make your first deposit as soon as the casino approves your ID doc. You'll get an answer within a day!

    This will avoid exactly the situation where you are at: a casino looking for all sorts of silly excuses to delay paying a substantial withdrawal. You said that you have been playing at that casino for 2 years now. Didn't you find out sooner how anal-retentive their CS is?

    Best of luck getting this sorted out.
     
  4. Feb 28, 2006
  5. gcrown

    gcrown Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self
    Location:
    usa
    I wish I knew that the service would be like that, as I would of played somewhere else, but during the 2 years never had to deal with them , I had all smaller withdrawals and never needed to use customer service for anything. But that being said very valid point to send ID Docs before making the first deposit, now there is an incentive the casino to process immediately to get a new customer, definitely what I needed in this case and I will do so on all my new accounts when I leave the current site that is making every attempt to be difficult with me. Thanks:notworthy
     
  6. Feb 28, 2006
  7. managra

    managra Dormant account

    Occupation:
    finance
    Location:
    USA
    I rather don't send ID doc when i can avoid it. But when in doubt, i now ask upfront before making any deposits. Then the ball is in their court.

    To check out the quality and usefulness of CS at a new casino, i tend to send some generic email with some questions just to see what sort of stuff i get back. (this is not necessary if the excellent reputation of a casino has been discussed here at CM many times). If their reply is cut and paste nonsense that doesn't address my question at all then i foresee real problems and frustrations down the road when i have a really big issue or a really big withdrawal (hope to get one some day!). Knowing that, i stick with the casinos where i have done all right and where i have been treated decently.

    Interesting that for 2 years you have been making deposits and withdrawals and never a problem. Now, you have a big withdrawal, and bang, all of a sudden they play deaf and dumb. Says a lot about that casino.

    Btw, have you tried to email that same id doc to a friend to get their feedback (or email to yourself at work), just to double-check the id doc is clearly legible?
     
  8. Feb 28, 2006
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Two points before i make mine:

    1) You have to remember that player credit card fraud is rife
    2) The way most casinos handle it does create "negative" feeling with the player.


    I think casinos could do several things:

    1) Have a central pool with standard requirements and operated by the software vendor that when a player registers his ID succesfully at one, is available to accounts staff at all.
    2) Have arrangements with NETeller so that "accredited" NT members depositing via NT can withdraw straight back to NT without checks
    3) Be more up-front about requirements when a player signs up rather than burying it deep in the T&C.

    Its a necessary process. But it should be handled in such a way that a player knows what to expect rather than be surprised. Managing expectations. Its what every long-standing succesful business does well.

    Cheers

    Simmo!
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Feb 28, 2006
  11. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Simmo, I think in this particular case that gcrown is referring to Spin Palace. And I do find it odd that he has sent his documents six times and the legibility is unsatisfactory to the casino. Maybe Tim (from Wagershare) might have a suggestion as to how gcrown can get these documents to the casino, in a legible format? I have a very cheap scanner, and I have had no problems with any casino being able to read what I send them. I feel bad for this poster, as they are obviously trying to do the right thing, and very frustrated. :confused:
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Feb 28, 2006
  13. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    This is starting to sound exactly like the problem I had with an MG casino, I emailed docs, they ignored follow ups, wouldn't help resolving the problem, couldn't tell me what ID would be acceptable and couldn't even type an email copy paste BS only.

    GCrown I would advise you to PAB and just make loads of noise in forum, PM to their rep, more emails and calls to support. They will soon realise you must be who you say and have no fear of collecting the money because there was no foul play and no reason for this BS from the casino.

    Having never needed support from any crypto casino I suggest a pin style system, although you can play instantly you require a pin to withdraw. Some years ago they used to supply a temporary pin but they no longer do this so you have effectively already been verified by receiving the ppin in the post. You also do not get a choice where the funds go, they must go back to depositing card. Profit they will pay to the card or neteller.

    I also think certain evil moves should be easily noticeable by the systems we play on making alot of the security unneccesary. EG, I deposit 50 at casino X where i've played at for years using the same card, this weekend I win big. Why is it now nesessary to go through all the pollava of verifying you are who you say? On the other hand player X deposits at the same casino 50K via western union places 3 bets on red, black and zero on roulette then tries cashing out to neteller. I can certainly see the need for security now.

    I truly believe that security should be of paramount importance to the casinos and players but just a small amount of common sense by the casinos would render alot of the crap unneccesary. We as players do not see real security just casinos giving us a hard time when we win and happily authing payments when were not. Proffesional suicide or not these casino's should not take wagers if there not going to pay, I mean how difficult would it be to put a simple pop up box so when you click to make that first deposit before its processed you are informed that you will nnot be able to make a withdraw until docs have been verified. Now you have a choice and if you do deposit you know youll be required to do xyz before withdrawing. NO ONE goes through the T&C with a fine tooth comb before making a deposit so if its not obvious at first more people are gonna get burnt.

    Having cashed out $118,000 on willhill with out any verification WHATSOEVER i'm always going have a problem with the ID situation but this proves the casinos can do it if they want. The more a casino want to force its security on me the more I feel this isn't a reputable casino, the quicker a casino pays the quicker you are back making a deposit. Security should for the most part be behind the scenes, it shouldn't directly effect the player. I would be happy for all casinos to have shared access for verification purposes to my ID held by a third independant party suchas eCogra but I simply refuse to supply these documents to every casino I play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Feb 28, 2006
  15. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    the problem with as ID as simmo says, fraud is rife and the way casinos handle the process does create negative feeling.

    however in my experience of MG's it is very rare i get asked for ID, yet by reading some of the posts on here, people are getting asked for ID on a regular basis from a lot of the casinos i play at.

    i have no proof of this, but my theory is that a lot of mg's look at your style of play and can tell wether your there as a fun player or as an advantage player and then decide wether to ask for ID.

    lets face it, if you join upto the casino, wait for the bonus, set autoplay for the required hands and then withdraw, you are asking for an ID request, afterall the casino has good reason to doubt wether you will return and has nothing to lose, but if they see that you could be genuine player they dont ask, afterall why piss of someone who could become a regular player.

    i think this is the correct way casinos should decide wether to ask for ID.

    now contrast this to playtech, they ask for ID reagrdless of your play, you could play a 20% bonus x100 on slots & they would still ask for ID, why ? in that last ditch hope that they can refuse a cashout, they dont bother to look at the long term and see they have a casinos dream customer.

    with this attitude, playtech chase away all of the genuine customers and are left with the abusers and fraudsters, as these have the ID on hand and see long the cash-out times as merely a bank account with a very high rate of interest.

    i personlly believe this why so many playtechs are turning rogues because their player databases are devoid of genuine customers who been put off from playing there due to playtechs policy that all cashouts regardless of size must be made difficult as possible.
     
  16. Feb 28, 2006
  17. BubbleG

    BubbleG Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    spark
    Location:
    Earth, man!
    If only that was the case, http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...out-problem-emailing-sensitive-documents.html I've already made most of my views clear in this thread. If providing them with the ID they request solved the big problem then I wouldn't have a problem, as it is it doesn't and goes no where near. All it does is cause us everyday players grief and in some cases heart ache at the amounts of money involed. Yet these amount are totally insignificant to the fraudster, launderer whatever. They get caught out, just move on, new name, etc etc etc. Whilst us players end up shouldering all the problems.
     
  18. Feb 28, 2006
  19. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    europe
    security a two way street

    I fully support verification policies but it has to work both ways, when I had problems with one particular casino they would not pay out but where still happy to take my deposits!

    Also when they send out an email such as this it leads me to believe it's just a delay tactic, why because they say routine security check, no mention of it will hold up your withdrawl.

    At Spin Palace we take pride in the secure way we process your transactions.

    In a routine security check we noticed that you have incomplete information registered in your casino account and so, as a precautionary measure, we kindly ask that you submit the information listed below:

    Full Name
    Residential Address
    Telephone Number
    Copy of your Utility Bill (telephone, electricity etc.)
    Copy of your driver's license or passport, not older than 3 months


    Also how many of us have driver's license or passport, 'not older than 3 months' maybe thats where gcrown is going wrong :)

    Come on spin palace pay the man.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Feb 28, 2006
  21. managra

    managra Dormant account

    Occupation:
    finance
    Location:
    USA
    I agree with Simmo that there should be a central location where your ID can be verified, like say Neteller. I rather don't send ID doc to every casino and have all that stuff floating around cyberspace.

    I am in disbelief about Spin Palace's request for a DL or passport not older than 3 months!!! That has nothing to do with security, just a ploy to make it hard on players and keep on finding excuses to delay payment. This is crooked.

    Last week i was thinking of depositing at Spin Palace for the first time. Glad i changed my mind.
     
  22. Feb 28, 2006
  23. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England

    I just spoke to Spin Palace. Apparently the 3 month clause used to exist but was removed some time ago. It does apply to the utility bill, not the drivers licence/passport.

    If you received an email stating that 3 months applied to passprt/licence recently, can you send it to me (webmaster @ oggs.com) and i'll get it sent on for them to look into.

    Cheers

    Simmo!
     
  24. Feb 28, 2006
  25. AceMan76

    AceMan76 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Attorney
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    I'm sorry, but I disagree. Without devolving into a debate on casino bonus abuse, anyone who deposits his or her own funds into a casino and plays according to the T&C is a "genuine player" IMO. Furthermore, someone committing CC fraud or other types of fraud could easily play in a substantially -EV manner hoping to hit it big. How does style of gambling correlate with fraud? Wouldn't you rather gamble it up big with someone else's $? Shouldn't ID checks be related to preventing fraud?
     
  26. Feb 28, 2006
  27. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    what i'm trying to get at, is what would be good business practice for the casino. even if someone keeps to T+C's casinos can still spot who is unlikely to be a player who wont return, in that case i say the casino has nothing to lose in asking for ID. whereas doing it for the sake will prevent some people from returning to casino.

    on the separate issue of fraud, rather than bonus hunters, casinos can still spot who is genuine or who do need further checks. for example a player deposits 50 a week for year from his credit card and then suddenly hits big, then whats the point of asking for ID, if something dodgy was going on, it would have been reported by now.

    or take another example, player spends 50 a week and then suddennly puts 1000 in his account and whacks it all on one hand of BJ, dispite the fact he is regular player, in this scenario they should be asking for ID as this should set off alarm bells.

    in both these examples of fraud, (plus the bonus hunting issue ive brought into the discussion), the best way to sum up what i'm saying , is that a casino should exercise common sense when asking for id and not just go blindly by a set of rules.
     
  28. Feb 28, 2006
  29. AceMan76

    AceMan76 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Attorney
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    I understand your POV. I say ID everyone upfront or rely on a 3rd party like Neteller, then no one will ever complain about arbitralily being IDed. Seems like 99% of this problem would go away. If it becomes industry standard to require ID upfront, then no casino would be at a competitive disadvantage.
     
  30. Feb 28, 2006
  31. gcrown

    gcrown Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self
    Location:
    usa
    I sent a new pm to rep for spin palace 2 days ago asking him to help my id process out and make sure that my withrdrawals go smoothly, but No reply as of yet!!! I habe a total of three seperate withdrawals pending 4500.00 that was waiting on a echeck for 100.00 to clear from the 19th, a 600.00 withdrawal that was form a netteller deposit from the 21st, and 1,000.00 withdrawal from a netteller deposit on the 25th. The 4500.00 was to clear their system apperently today and should release but now who knows due to the id problem i am having, the other two withdrawals being held totalling 1600.00 were all neteller fully funded deposits and they are not paying rhise either as of yet, either because of id or original echeck that has nothing to do with these neteller deposits. I also have lost at least 1500.00 in the last week on their site and still no withdrawals. I sent emails 24 hours ago asking them to help me help them and give me some info here but no reply. I am not going to take further pabs to anyone until tommorow when all funds definitely should be in my neteller, that was a question I pmd the rep a week ago was will these funds go to my neteller or are they going to try a check or some other stall and the rep never answered the question and emails to support would never answer that either.
    I totally agree that a central database with 1 id verify for customers is the way, wether ECOGRA or even Casinomiester starts a safe database then distibutes to the casinos. That is the answer and think of all the headaches the casino can get rid of, let a third party deal with the process, and for sure exceptions should be made for neteller accounts and such!!!!
     
  32. Feb 28, 2006
  33. TheBloke

    TheBloke Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Database programmer
    Location:
    London
    ID checks will never go away - I'm sure casinos make a lot of money from them. It delays your cashout a few days, during which time you might play a little more and lose some or all of it. I am sure that happens routinely.

    As has already been said, the principle of asking for ID only on cashout is nonsensical, particularly given that deposits will only be refunded to the payment method. If someone has stolen my Neteller or credit card details, I want them to be stopped from depositing money to a casino - not stopped from giving it back to me!

    Casinos will never ever ask for ID up front because that will limit their signups and the amount deposited.

    The fact that they only care about ID when you cashout is clear proof that ID checks rarely have anything to do with checking your ID, and have everything to do with keeping you from your money as long as possible.

    I too very rarely get asked for ID from Microgaming casinos - to their credit. But now and then if I win a lot, they do ask. Why do they ask when I win £2000 but not when I win £200? Because the ID check is nothing to do with security, it's just a delaying tactic.

    I wonder what would happen if I were to lose a deposit at a casino, then submit an ID showing I was underage. If I did that after a cashout there's no way I'd ever get my money. But if I busted, would they return my deposit? Methinks not.

    Anyway there's nothing we can do - the good casinos don't ask for ID (or very very rarely), and the bad ones ask for it always. We won't change that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2006
  34. Mar 1, 2006
  35. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    well actually, under the UK gambling bill, if someone shows proof that they are underage then a gambling institution must refund any bets/stakes even if they have already lost.

    i'm sure theres a scam in this somewhere, not sure what though, cough,cough
     
  36. Mar 1, 2006
  37. Tim Whyles

    Tim Whyles Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Manager
    Location:
    London
    Hi gcrown

    I've been speaking with the head of the customer support team who is currently out of the office. He is back in the office tomorrow when he will be able to check the PMs you've sent him and get a resolution to the current situation.

    Best regards,

    Tim
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Mar 1, 2006
  39. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Hi Tim....thanks for posting at least!! I was really feeling gcrown's frustration, lol.

    Hope it gets sorted for you gcrown. :)
     

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