Spearmaster Help With Blackjack Ballroom

deadeye

Dormant account
I signed with Blackjack Ballroom the other day, depositing $1000 and getting a $400 bonus, only to discover that I must run $42,000 through the system in two months actually to collect the bonus, *and* that BB has installed a provision againt autoplay.

I take exception to their not allowing autoplay, and have been told that you have an agreement with them to permit its use. Can you please help me?

(I was directed to this action by mrick1 on the Las Vegas Advisor forum).
 

Petunia

Dormant account
T & C states:

"You are required to wager the credits placed in your account as well as any deposit required to earn that bonus prior to withdrawal. This does not mean that you can't win with your credits, only that you must wager this amount before withdrawing. The equation you must follow is (Amount deposited + bonus) x fifteen (15) for all games except Blackjack, Video Poker and Power Poker which require thirty (30) times turnover. Using the promotional bonus for no risk wagers or to wager on Roulette, Progressive Roulette, Sic Bo, Baccarat, or Craps does not fulfill your obligation with regard to the total amount wagered prior to withdrawal. All bets played using auto play will not count towards the wagering requirements. "
Casino Rewards reserves the right to refuse a promotional bonus for any reason whatsoever, including, but not restricted to player abuse.""All casino promotions are reviewed regularly and we reserve the right to change the offer and or terms at any time"


---I guess what I am trying to say is
"READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE THE TIME!"
Just a thought. Use it, don't use it.
 
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Stanford

Dormant account
KasinoKing said:
No sympathy.

I'm getting fed up with saying this:-

"ALWAYS READ ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE DEPOSITING!"

(Try to understand what you're reading too - it helps!)
This is a new player to casino gaming so some sympathy is called for - some. But your advice is spot on. There is a lot more grief down the road without detail review of the Ts&Cs. I got caught on Cooks for example and have no one but me to blame.

This player is willing to play the requirements. But he finds the autoplay ban to be unfair. SpearMaster has approached this group about this issue and they have assured him that they would lift that restriction.

Having made that committment to the gaming community, I think it fair for the player to raise it and ask for help.

More than that, this group has a history of playing games with their bonus and changing terms retroactively. They have even applied new terms to previously completed bonus deals and then carried the brand new requirements forward. To date, they will not repudiate this behavior.

The promise to Spearmaster is here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5067&page=5&pp=10

I see yet another new complaint about this group in a separate thread today.

Stanford
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
*sigh*

Is the autoplay restriction still in place, and if so, which casinos (exactly) still have these terms.

I will raise it with them one last time.

Deadeye, I do not have any agreement with anyone to permit anything - in other words, it's not a special deal if you mention my name LOL. I was told that they would remove this restriction - and it is entirely up to them to do so, I have no say in the matter because it is their business - which is correct - but I do offer a very strong opinion on things and autoplay is one of them.

Other than that - and especially if you didn't sign up with me - I have little teeth... LOL...
 

dominique

Dormant account
This is a new player to casino gaming so some sympathy is called for - some. But your advice is spot on. There is a lot more grief down the road without detail review of the Ts&Cs. I got caught on Cooks for example and have no one but me to blame.
I guess I will complain about this until I turn blue in the face.

Most novices don't know to even look for wagering requirements.

The casinos hide them.

It's a disgrace.
 

Stanford

Dormant account
spearmaster said:
*sigh*

Is the autoplay restriction still in place, and if so, which casinos (exactly) still have these terms.

I will raise it with them one last time...

Other than that - and especially if you didn't sign up with me - I have little teeth... LOL...
Why the sigh?

My issue is they won't repudiate their retroactive bonus term applications. And I hope players keep after them about it. I know it is a long struggle, but I don't want these things to just get old and forgotton till the next time.

I thought this autoplay requirement was your issue and you felt just as strongly about that. At one time, I thought you were considering pullining them from your site - "touch and go". As I recall you said it was not acceptable and was to close to the Pirate situation.

I don't blame you for not fighting every battle, but I thought this is one you wanted to fight. Should players that did not sign up through you bring this to your attention?

Here is the BlackJack Ballroom Link.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I checked Golden Tiger and Yukon Gold and find the same autoplay restriction.

You say you will raise it one last time. After that, what happens? What is your advise to players to prevent the issue from fading? Not a criticism here, just a request for direction.

Max is working on a system of marking complaints "resolved" so that players can see when real progress has been made. Something like that is a good idea becuase otherwise Casinos just ignore players (and watchdogs sometimes) and let the issue fade.

Stanford
 

Stanford

Dormant account
dominique said:
I guess I will complain about this until I turn blue in the face.

Most novices don't know to even look for wagering requirements.

The casinos hide them.

It's a disgrace.
That's true and that is why these portals are so important. At least we can help each other along for a bit.

Stanford
 

Macgyver

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
I interpreted the *sigh* as Spearmaster being frustrated that the casinos had agreed to something and then not followed through on it. :confused:
 

sw2003

Dormant account
Macgyver said:
I interpreted the *sigh* as Spearmaster being frustrated that the casinos had agreed to something and then not followed through on it. :confused:
Hey since when did that become news?
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
spearmaster said:
*sigh*

Is the autoplay restriction still in place, and if so, which casinos (exactly) still have these terms.

I will raise it with them one last time.

Deadeye, I do not have any agreement with anyone to permit anything - in other words, it's not a special deal if you mention my name LOL. I was told that they would remove this restriction - and it is entirely up to them to do so, I have no say in the matter because it is their business - which is correct - but I do offer a very strong opinion on things and autoplay is one of them.

Other than that - and especially if you didn't sign up with me - I have little teeth... LOL...
Oh,dont be so humble,spearmaster. You do have some clout. I am also sure that many are grateful for your timely warning on neteller.

On this issue,I wonder whether the group can consider allowing withdrawals if the met wagering requirements do not comprise more than 70% in autoplay mode. I think the casino do not wish to have players to simply deposit and let the machine do the wagering and cash out the bonus. If the player bets by himself,at least he is deemed to be entertained by the games. On the other hand,some conservative players may wish to bet small and it will take ages for them to meet the WR thru playing themselves. They could easily lose a whole night's sleep. Deadeye,do you accept this as a solution. Maybe you could compromise with the casino on that.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
*sigh*

... means I am frustrated because the casinos have not kept their promise

... means I am frustrated because my words and actions are being misinterpreted

... means I am frustrated that people do NOT learn to read the T&Cs

... means I am frustrated that I am being called upon when it really has nothing to do with me

... means that I am tired of being asked to help people who do not sign up through me

... means that I am tired of my every move being watched and questioned

... means anything I want it to mean, please do not read anything into it

Now -

The last time means I am tired of this shit - if I do not get an affirmative response from the operators then I will be taking some other sort of action. But this time please provide me specific pages with the offending terms on them so there is absolutely ZERO chance of miscommunication. Don't ask me to do all the legwork as well, because I just don't have the time and energy.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
dominique said:
Most novices don't know to even look for wagering requirements.
The casinos hide them. It's a disgrace.
As far a Microgaming goes - I can not agree with this statement.
True, the T&C's could be a little bit more prominent, but not much unless they were on the home page!
I recently visited all 82 MG websites and had no problem finding this info. If I recall correctly, with nearly all I clicked on 'Promotions' where the WR's are detailed. At the bottom of these was a 'Terms & Conditions' link - clicked that and hey-presto!
So two mouse clicks from the homepage is hardly 'hidden'.

My opinion on blackjack autoplay, for what it's worth (which is not-a-lot!), is that I agree with the casinos.
It's blatantly obvious that anyone who wants to do their bonus WR on auto BJ is just a bonus hunter.
Why should the casino help you take their money in the quickest possible time! They are not charities - they are in business to make money.
I've done pretty well from MG bonuses over the last 3 years - and I hardly ever play blackjack. I play a variety of games and enjoy myself while I'm taking their money!
Setting BJ to autoplay 5000 hands (or whatever) sounds as dull as ditchwater to me.
Oh well - whatever turns you on! :what:
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Well here's another thread that has slipped by me - I had not realized that this group has not removed this autoplay term. I agree with Spear, it it understandable to protect yourself from bonus hunters, but the autoplay is built into the software - it's part of the game, so there is no reason to disqualify players for using this.

Operators who fear "robots" or autoplay do not understand the fact that all this does is make players lose their money faster. It makes no difference at all if I use autoplay or not. What if the player uses the built in analyzer? Would their play be null and void as well?

Many players are attracted to MG casinos because of the ability to use autoplay, analyze hands, etc. For a casino group to disallow this play in their T&Cs is shortsighted and unfair in my opinion.

These casinos are being placed into Casinomeister's Not Recomended section until this is addressed and corrected.
 

Petunia

Dormant account
dominique said:
I guess I will complain about this until I turn blue in the face.

Most novices don't know to even look for wagering requirements.

The casinos hide them.

It's a disgrace.
-- Dominique: I know they are not easy to find, BUT they are always available in the Terms and Conditions, AND if I cannot find those, then bugger me, I will not play there. It is a GAMBLE. *sigh*
 

Petunia

Dormant account
casinomeister said:
These casinos are being placed into Casinomeister's Not Recomended section until this is addressed and corrected.


-- Mister Meister, I agree with what you are saying, but I think I understand a bit of the 'idea' behind it. These casino's are hoping to 'trap' their players by getting them to stay and play manually. THis means that the more they play, the more emotionally involved they become in the the whole game. On the one hand I think it is clever, because it force the player to interact again, on the other hand I think it sucks as you said, the functionality is there don't tell me I cannot use it!
 
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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Linked from the NR section:
http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/casinorewards.html

petunia said:
-- Mister Meister, I agree with what you are saying, but I think I understand a bit of the 'idea' behind it. These casino's are hoping to 'trap' their players by getting them to stay and play manually. THis means that the more they play, the more emotionally involved they become in the the whole game. On the one hand I think it is clever, because it force the player to interact again, on the other hand I think it sucks as you said, the functionality is there don't tell me I cannot use it!
Could be. But then it could be that they are afraid the the player is merely going to jump in and burn up their bank roll lickety-split, and then never to return; which I think is bogus. Operators should welcome players who use the autoplay - it burns up their cash quicker.

My main issue is that this is such an obscure bonus condition that it can be easily overlooked. And if this is option is built into the software, players should have the right to use it.
 

jerseyguy11

Dormant account
agreed. I've played at blackjack ballroom and a few other casino rewards. They are pay promptly I have to give them that, but they need to fix this auto-play nonsense. It really makes no sense to include it unless the casino group wishes to be able to use that against them after a player wins from a bonus.
 

dominique

Dormant account
Petunia said:
-- Dominique: I know they are not easy to find, BUT they are always available in the Terms and Conditions, AND if I cannot find those, then bugger me, I will not play there. It is a GAMBLE. *sigh*

Yes, they are there.
But novices, especially those coming in from portals that explain nothing and portals that are being spawned like crazy by the casinos themselves, are not looking for them.

Why would they look for them? They are putting their money in and want to play some roulette or whatever. Who would think there were restrictions and they couldn't play with their money as they please?

You are looking at this with the eyes of an experienced person. A novice has no reason to suspect they are not allowed to play their favorite games.

At the latest after you deposit your money, a choice should be presented:

Yes, I would like to receive a bonus and I understand there will be limits on which games I can play. I have read the wagering requirements and agree to them

and

No, I do not want a bonus. I want to play with my own money and play what I like and cash out when I want.


THAT would be transparent enough for novices.
 

deadeye

Dormant account
dominique said:
I guess I will complain about this until I turn blue in the face.

Most novices don't know to even look for wagering requirements.

The casinos hide them.

It's a disgrace.

I am a new player and am certainly ready to do fulfill their somewhat Draconian requirements, because I enjoy the game. (Alternatively, I will just take my $1,000 back and go somewhere else).

I trusted the endorsement of the Las Vegas Advisor, which is a publication and outfit that I've been with for more than 10 years and which I believe hews to the highest standards. I think they got a little ahead of themselves on this one.

I did look for conditions. Could not find any. Even after I saw the conditions quoted by others, I couldn't find them. It took about 15 minutes of detective work (I am not a dolt) finally to uncover them, buried four levels under to the Blackjack Ballroom "promotions" link.

It has been an interesting learning experience, and probably the best lesson is to have discovered this site.
 

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