SoV creating their own laws after the first excuses don't hold up

Robertsgirl

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Location
USA
Customer Support

:) I have reciently had lots of problems with Customer Support with Prism Casino. Specifically with Samantha! I didn't have a problem with their bonus--Just Samantha who kept lying and saying that I was scheduled to be paid. The Casino would end Chats-- and never did I get to speak to the Manager. This went on for a few weeks or a month. However, after I posted how I was being treated and NOT BEING PAID they did eventually pay me. But--sent the money Western Union and charged me the $18.00.:eek:

Did you read the e-mail that the computer generates that says...Your withdraw will be processed between 2-4 days?? Can remember specifically. There was also some conflicting information regarding the bonus monies. Real Crap. I would have kept all of the documents if I would have realize what type of organization that I was dealing with. :mad:

Well since that dispute...Virtual keeps messing me around with my withdraw. It is really sad that as a relatively new player I have to learn the hard way. :eek:
 

GForceT1

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Location
Netherlands
I just discoverd this thread and must say I am quite shocked :eek:
Why? Well
1) I am from the netherlands to
2) I played Slots of Vegas on March 15th
3) Requested 4 bonus coupons after a long chat session (I DO have the screenshots of this)
4) I lost all 4 coupons for a total loss of $400

Now I don't bother losing $400 in this casino. I took a few bonuses they offered and asked about the terms in the livechat.
The thing I DO bother about is what if I had won on one of those deposits.
In the live chat I had with their Operator Danielle I asked almost everything about the bonuses they offered. NOT ONCE did she mentioned I wasn't allowed to take a bonus. She only explained all the bonuses to me. I made very clear I was intending to make a deposit and request a coupon and she only encouraged me. NOW WHY IS THAT??? If I read everything Chris says I am not eglible since march 1st. Then why on March 15th (there was also nothing about Netherlands in their T&C) they explain bonus rules to me. Why not say 1 thing: sorry you are not eglible...:what:

The thing is... I lost $400 real money, but had I won I would have won only monopoly money I could only spend in their casino I guess.
Chris I do not want to give your casino a bad name but this is really strange.
It was probaly okay to take my money and deposit but appearantly I never had a chance of cashing out more then my deposit.

I post here because I want this sorted out. I am curious... would I have been called a bonusabuser to if I won? Toi bad I didnt win... I would at least got my deposit back :oops:
 

martinbl

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Location
Netherlands - Enschede
That's great Geforce, PLEAAAAAASE tell me you saved those screenshots!
Because if you have screenshots of the chat AFTER 1 march were they promiss you a bonus although you are from Holland, then I have yet more prove that the bonus WERE given to people from the Netherlans!

And if you can show that it was also possible to really REDEEM the bonus, then the story from Chris that it was impossible is also proven wrong.

So PLEASE, if you still have them, post them!
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Location
Haverhill
Chris I do not want to give your casino a bad name but this is really strange.
It was probaly okay to take my money and deposit but appearantly I never had a chance of cashing out more then my deposit.

I post here because I want this sorted out. I am curious... would I have been called a bonusabuser to if I won? Toi bad I didnt win... I would at least got my deposit back :oops:


The precident has been set repeatedly on this forum that it is OK for casinos to freeroll their customers. To clarify, if a casino awards a bonus and later denies a cashout based on information that the casino had when the bonus was awarded, that is just fine. The average ploppy who posts on this site is very scornful of advantage players. I'm not sure if these feelings stem from jealousy, or ignorance, but they are clearly present. Then there are the affiliates who actually have a good reason to dislike APs, since most affiliate deals pay a percentage of net losses.

So to summarize, yes, your cashout would have been denied. No, nobody with any clout here would have cared in the least.
 

GForceT1

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Location
Netherlands
Martin, Here are the screens as requested. The cashier part shows clearly that I have succesfully redeemed the bonuses.
Good luck in getting your money!
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
The precident has been set repeatedly on this forum that it is OK for casinos to freeroll their customers. To clarify, if a casino awards a bonus and later denies a cashout based on information that the casino had when the bonus was awarded, that is just fine. The average ploppy who posts on this site is very scornful of advantage players. I'm not sure if these feelings stem from jealousy, or ignorance, but they are clearly present. Then there are the affiliates who actually have a good reason to dislike APs, since most affiliate deals pay a percentage of net losses.

So to summarize, yes, your cashout would have been denied. No, nobody with any clout here would have cared in the least.

I think I'm the only ploppist that has seemed scornful of 'advantage players'.

If bonuses weren't 'abused', the terms and conditions would be so simple that sorting out the good casinos from the bad would be so easy that anyone deft enough to deposit and withdraw wouldn't need to be here.
 

happygobrokey

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
if bonuses weren't abused, they still would be. the players themselves don't abuse bonuses unless they gnome or otherwise claim the same bonus multiple times. anything else is just the casino calling something abuse, be it a bunch of sign ups from a single nation, a player that comes out ahead after wagering and cashes out rather than pump it all back into the casino's coffers, a player that doesn't deposit between taking bonuses, etc etc.

if a store puts things on sale super cheap and two vans full of people come and buy that item, the store could call abuse that the customers only came there to score the low price. but what is wrong with what they did? of course if they attempt to buy more than any imposed limit, then indeed it is the shopper's fault and thus abusive. but taking a good deal offered to you and cashing out after you meet your obligation thereto is not abuse. until the casino wishes it to be.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
if bonuses weren't abused, they still would be. the players themselves don't abuse bonuses unless they gnome or otherwise claim the same bonus multiple times. anything else is just the casino calling something abuse, be it a bunch of sign ups from a single nation, a player that comes out ahead after wagering and cashes out rather than pump it all back into the casino's coffers, a player that doesn't deposit between taking bonuses, etc etc.

if a store puts things on sale super cheap and two vans full of people come and buy that item, the store could call abuse that the customers only came there to score the low price. but what is wrong with what they did? of course if they attempt to buy more than any imposed limit, then indeed it is the shopper's fault and thus abusive. but taking a good deal offered to you and cashing out after you meet your obligation thereto is not abuse. until the casino wishes it to be.


I hear ya Happy. And indeed in the big picture and final analysis it is the casino's and the store's responsibility to protect themselves from exploitive foolery. But if I cut into the store's profits, they aren't going to 'eat it' they are going to 'pass my savings on to you' or the next guy who comes along, and if I have to sign a contract that is longer than my arm to get twenty cents off a loaf of bread just to pay the price I would have anyway without the vanful of coupon shoppers raising the prices and complicating the simplest of transactions, well... that's just my take.

Hope we aren't too far off topic here, but how can we help it? Many of the cases are in mediation so neither side can speak out wisely. Maybe we should start another thread to discuss the salient points we think are in contention? I dunno.

There has to be a long term profit potential in bonuses or they wouldn't be offered for sign-ups. The 'loss-leader' concept of a grocery store is... "I'll get you in the door with a loss on this product hoping you will buy enough of my other stuff that I can make a profit and keep my doors open. If I can build some brand loyalty in the process, I'm willing to take a hit beyond your coupon shopping today. Thanks for shopping at lojo's ya'll come back, ya hear?"

I doubt the total picture here is so black and white.
I'm dropping out of this thread me thinks. (yeah, I've said it before)

Best to all:thumbsup:
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I think I'm the only ploppist that has seemed scornful of 'advantage players'.

No Lojo, you can add me to the ploppy list as well, whatever that term means. I'm certainly not defending the casino in this case, just making a general statement about advantage players.

Gambling is meant to be fun, and it's meant to be entertainment, IMO. It's not meant to be a way to make money, again just my opinion. A bonus to me adds to my playtime, nothing more. If I get lucky and hit something decent, great. If I don't, hey, I got to play a bit more than I would have on a straight deposit.

The way I see it, there are two possible solutions to all the bonus complaints that arise. One, the casinos can just stop offering any bonuses, period. I doubt that will happen. Two, they can offer bonuses but put some ridiculous wagering requirements like 50X playthrough on them, and make them for slots play only.

I know that most here think I'm crazy, but sorry I don't look at playing at a casino as a way to make money. It's my form of entertainment...the same way that someone else may go to a movie, or a play, or out to dinner, or whatever. Nothing more.

Again, I'm not saying these people don't deserve to get paid, just stating my opinion. Honestly, I haven't read this thread THAT closely to offer an opinion on it. But I am somewhat offended by bpb's "ploppy" comment.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
:D I have no idea what was meant either, just took 'ploppy' to be disparaging and decided to pwned the term by making it 'ploppist'.

If nobody else gets around to it maybe I'll start a poll/thread to discuss bonus issues in general. It seems taking the discussion out of emotionally charged threads might be more productive. I have mixed feelings and thoughts about bonuses and other advantage play and it would be great to have a discussion on more level ground. Come to think of it, I'm not really sure which thread I'm on right now...
 

martinbl

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Location
Netherlands - Enschede
Martin, Here are the screens as requested. The cashier part shows clearly that I have succesfully redeemed the bonuses.
Good luck in getting your money!

Nah, this clearly states that Chris' statement that the bonusses couldn't be redeemned after March 1st.
And not only that, it also shows that the statement about me not getting the bonus added manualy is simply false.. And that from the casino manager himself :confused:

Nah, there's two options now I think, of Geforce get's his all his deposits voided because he wasn't even allowed to play there with bonuses since he's from the Netherlands so all deposits were under false terms.
Or the casino should just payout my winnings.

HE COULD EVEN CLAIM THE BONUS 4 TIMES SO NO, IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT THAT GOT THROUGH AND NO, PEOPLE FROM THE NETHERLANDS WERE STILL USE TO THE BONUS THE 15th OF MARCH.
Hell, it was even encouraged by the chat representatives from the casino...

What Chris is stating now is:
Player from the Netherlands: Hi, I would like to play at your casino :)
Chris: Wow, PLEASE TAKE OR BONUS AND DEPOSIT NOW!
*player loses*
Chris: Hahaha, tough shit sucker, you lose all your money!

Another player from the Netherlands: Hi, I would like to play at your casino :)
Chris: Wow, PLEASE TAKE OR BONUS AND DEPOSIT NOW!
*player wins*
Chris: Hahaha, you lie, cheat and abuse so you don't get shit!

To sum it up: according to Chris, If you lose, you're a great player and they give you even more bonusses and if you win you're a lying casinoabuser who should f*ck off...

Not only morally wrong, but as I presume also fraudulent and illegal...
 

GForceT1

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Location
Netherlands
Well here I am again and have to give a compliment to Chris.
I got an email today from him in which he says I wasn't supposed to get any bonus. In an effort to 'undo' this error he decided to give me my deposits back. I am very happy with this and want to give him credit for solving this. It shows he is willing to take a look into cases and solve if possible. Thank you very much. :thumbsup:

@Martin, I hope you get your problem solved to.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
Well here I am again and have to give a compliment to Chris.
I got an email today from him in which he says I wasn't supposed to get any bonus. In an effort to 'undo' this error he decided to give me my deposits back. I am very happy with this and want to give him credit for solving this. It shows he is willing to take a look into cases and solve if possible. Thank you very much. :thumbsup:

@Martin, I hope you get your problem solved to.

GForceT1,
You can't be serious.
He only gave you back what was yours to begin with.
And this so called "ERROR" was his not yours.
This is just a bullsh*t ploy to get some good PR.
This must be a joke!
 

GForceT1

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Location
Netherlands
GForceT1,
You can't be serious.
He only gave you back what was yours to begin with.
And this so called "ERROR" was his not yours.
This is just a bullsh*t ploy to get some good PR.
This must be a joke!

I understand your reaction. I even agree with you, but the fact is that I got a bonus and played with it. I lost it and never expected to see the money again. The fact that I get my deposits back shows that they do not only void winnings and take losing deposits. I still not agree with the voiding of martin's winnings as far as I know the facts, since it appears players from the netherlands COULD receive bonuses ( I don't believe I was the only one). I posted this because they are at least consistent in their policy. A lot of casino's would not return deposits to losing players but just keep them. I still don't think this is very good PR for them, with all this going on. Just want to add as much as I can to this story. Positive and negative.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
GForceT1....
As I said many times before, we are all entitled to our opinion.
I've been on The Virtual Groups ass for a very, very long time.
They change personnel/managers as often as I change underwear.
The upper echelon at Virtual is searching for the perfect con man.
But, their continuous search is in vain.
For some reason or other the scape goat aka manager, seems to disappear after they fail.
Who knows....who cares, it doesn't make a difference what becomes of them.
The point remains that Virtual continues to succeed in sucking in players that do not know better and keeps the poor players money.
Why do you think Casinomeister has them on the "Not Recommended" list?
 
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