SoV creating their own laws after the first excuses don't hold up

martinbl

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Location
Netherlands - Enschede
Deposited at Slots of Vegas yesterday, but after depositing I realized I forgot to first redeem the bonuscode.
Got to the chat and hey, no problem, the guy in the chat would manualy add the bonus to my account so I could start playing.

Went great, got op to 850 and decided to ask how far I was playing through the WR.

And then the trouble started :(

According to Samantha from the livechat I wasn't even allowed to redeem bonuses so all my winnings would be voided!
That couldn't be right, since it was one of her colleagues personally who added the bonus...
No, according to her the bonus was automatic redeemed by me.

Nah, I suggested she should ask her colleague who added the bonus and after she got that confirmed, it wasn't her colleagues fault to add the bonus and AFTER winning voiding it but noooo, suddenly it was my own responsibility to read the rules!
But how can your own employees manually add a bonus to my account if I may not even play with it?
She didn't really care, it still was my own responsibility to read all the rules on the slots of vegas site.

And now the funny part... I DID!

I opened the site, read all the rules on the SoV site I could find but NOTHING about people from the Netherlands who aren't allowed to play bonusses! The Netherlands aren't even mentioned anywhere on the site... (Thank god I have screenshots of all the rules)

So Samantha, how can I read rules on your site who aren't even there?

Whoops, she checked, saw I was right, she didn't know that, but still I wouldn't get my money :confused:

Wait...
First you tell me that the bonus was added automaticly so it was an error I even got it, but that wasn't even the case, it was added manually...
THEN you tell me I should have read the rules myself...
I read them, but there's nothing about the Netherlands not being entitled to play bonuses.
And NOW you tell me I have to GUESS the rules, since they aren't even mentioned on your website?
You must be kidding me!

And then she tried her latest and probably worst excuse... She gave me a link to the prism rules...

Uh, real nice, but what have I got to do with the Prism rules?

According to her because Prism and SoV are sister companys and that's why I had to read the Prism rules.

What the...?

Where on the SoV site is mentioned that I can stick their own rules in my *** because I have to follow the rules of an external site then?

Then Chris came in, told me Prism was the main site and closed the chat :mad:

Nah, I have an idea... I'll open two hardware stores.
In one, I will state that I give no garantuees or warranties and when people with red, blue, black, brown or green shoes have problems with my product they can stick it in their *** and get no great deals.
No one will buy anything from that story I presume.

Then I'll open another where I mention in the contract that people with all type of shoes get free extra hardware.
And after I got my money and people want to have the extra hardware I'll just mention the other stores' statement and contract and throw them out the store.

Now, I ain't a law student, but I don't think that would hold in court, so my question is, can casino's get away with "own rules and laws" like this?

I have attached the complete chatlog and screenshots of all the SoV rules made on March 16th.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Just taking the liberty to post your chat-log:

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.
Chat InformationThank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Samantha'. How can I help you?
martinbl: Hi samantha
martinbl: can you tell me how far I am at meeting the WR?
Samantha: Let me check
martinbl: of course
Samantha: I have to inform you that players from Netherlands are not entitled to redeem bonuses
martinbl: That's sound like a mistake to me
martinbl: I was handed the bonus manualy
Samantha: We are going to refund your deposit
martinbl: Euuh, how can I get added a bonus MANUALLY if I'm not even allowed a bonus?
Samantha: The bonus was automatically redeem
martinbl: Oh no
martinbl: It was added manually since I forgot to redeem it first
martinbl: You can ask your collegae about that
Samantha: I understand that but it is your responsibility to read the rul
Samantha: rules
martinbl: That's a nice way to put it.. However, the Netherlands aren't even MENTIONED in the rules
martinbl: And I have screenshots of all the possible T&R, play rules and withdrawal rules
Samantha: Those are the rules the casino has
Samantha: I'm sorry if you didn't know it
Samantha: We will refund the money
martinbl: Euuh wait
martinbl: first you tell me that the bonus was added automaticly, but it was added manually
martinbl: THEN you tell me I should have read the rules myself
martinbl: And NOW you tell me I have to GUESS the rules, since they aren't even mentioned on your website? You KNOW that wouldn't hold in court, do you?
Samantha: They are on the website
Samantha: click here
Samantha:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Samantha: and scroll down, you will see a list of countries that CAN'T take bonuses
martinbl: I don't have to read other websites' rules now, do I
martinbl: I read the rules of the slots of vegas casino
martinbl: and there, there wasn't mentioned a thing
Samantha: That is the main website
Samantha: www.prismcasino.com
Samantha: prism and slots of vegas are the same casino
martinbl: That's nice to know, but where does it mention on your website that I have to follow the rules of prism?
martinbl: Exactly, nowhere
martinbl: Prism isn't even MENTIONED in the rules on your site.. And since I don't have a magic ball...
Samantha: sir when you downloaded slotsofvegas
Samantha: it is clearly stated that we are sister companies
Samantha: the money will be refunded to your neteller account .
martinbl: But it's nowhere stated that I have to follow rules of an external site instead of your own site
martinbl: But this is getting me nowhere, can I talk to your manager... At least he's supposed to know that it's legally not possible to void money like this
Chris: Sir, Prism is not an external site
Chris: It is our main casino.
Chris: Slots of Vegas is a portal of Prism.
Chris: Your deposit will be refunded and you are welcome to play with us in the future with no bonus.
Chris: The rules page on Slots of Vegas will be updated shortly.
Chris: Thank you for your understanding and have a wonderful evening.


Just plain mindless.
 

catrina m

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Location
US of A
congratulations, you won but were very sorry you can't keep the money.

This is utterly absurd. And by the way, Have a wonderful evening!
 

FRENCHIE

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Location
charlotte north carolina
ARE ALL CASINOS LIKE THIS

i have recently joined here and my reason was for nonpayment of winnings it seems to me that they want you to deposit your hard earned money and when you win they want you to jump through all kinds of hoops to get your money i cannot understand why they want to do this to their customers that way.i also didn't realize this kind of problem was so common till i joined ,it has really opened my eyes i guess i can understand why the united states passed the law to a point because the cutomers were being taken advantaged of. i honestly hope everybody gets their winnings including myself but i don't think that is going to happen i hope i am wrong could anybody give me some insight on how many people are waiting on their money from varies sites just curious
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
it has really opened my eyes i guess i can understand why the united states passed the law to a point because the cutomers were being taken advantaged of
The passage of the law had nothing to do with protecting the player, it was strictly a protectionist and moralistic issue.

For players in the states, you shouldn't be participating in online gambling unless delayed payments don't bother you. There are still a number of legitimate operations that still accept US bets - but payments have proven to be very problematic.
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
How in the world is it the player's responsibility to read not only the T&Cs of the casino where he deposited but those of all its SISTER casinos?

You can't make some of these excuses up.
 

kempe

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Netherlands
Surely :D

You can contact their General Manager who is located here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-software/rtg/

to bad that the manager Chris thinks he is god and can change the terms from his casino, forgets to upload them and afterwards he claims that the Terms where on his site from the 1th of March... you big cheesy liar!

Well easy money for mister Chris, and he still keeps sending me his 500% bonus emails! Stick them up your .....
 
Last edited:

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
to bad that the manager Chris thinks he is god and can change the terms from his casino, forgets to upload them and afterwards he claims that the Terms where on his site from the 1th of March... you big cheesy liar!.
Indeed, the evidence completely disputes the manager's claim. The OP has posted a screen shot of the T&C from March 16th which does not specify that players from the Netherlands are banned from bonuses. Also, in the later chat the CSR admits that the rule in question needs to be updated on the SOV website.
 

kempe

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Netherlands
Indeed, the evidence completely disputes the manager's claim. The OP has posted a screen shot of the T&C from March 16th which does not specify that players from the Netherlands are banned from bonuses. Also, in the later chat the CSR admits that the rule in question needs to be updated on the SOV website.

So what can be done? I have the idea that CM is not really fond on jumping on this case:) Just take the loss and continue...:mad:
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
So what can be done? I have the idea that CM is not really fond on jumping on this case:) Just take the loss and continue...:mad:
For starters, make sure that the General Manager is alerted to this thread. Even if CM does not get involved in mediating this dispute, the negative publicity that's being generated here may be enough to change the casino's position.
 

kempe

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Netherlands
i sent them this email:

Hello,


Please check these two links regarding Slots of Vegas:


https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/slots-of-vegas-not-paying-winnings.17134/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...s-after-the-first-excuses-dont-hold-up.17162/


I redeemed a coupon at Slots of Vegas and fullfilled their wagering requirement. Requested a cashout and after 2 weeks I get an email that my original deposits where returned because of the fact that people from the netherlands where not allowed for bonus.

But at the moment I redeemed the coupon this wasn't the case. I have screenshot and a page from Google cache that on 15 march still Netherlands wasn't on their list, and I redeemed the coupon on the 5th of March!!!

Chris the manager just tells me that he uploaded the changed terms on the 1th of march, but that is just not true Furthermore, people could still redeem coupons, that is their problem, they can't blaim the casinosoftware for that, they operate the casino AND the coupon/software system.

What can I do to get this solved?

Regards,

Joris Kempen
 

VIP_Lounge_Mgr

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Location
Costa Rica
Slots of Vegas Official Reply

Dear forum members,

I am writing all of you this letter as an official reply to complaints made against us from the players in the Netherlands. First, I would like to point out that we have placed a new Prism web site up on the net as of Mar 1st, 2007. In addition to different policies, like a new VIP program and improved web pages and graphics, we had also made some changes to our terms and conditions. These changes took effect on Mar 1st, right along with the addition of the new web site. I would like to also point out that you will not find any player with a screenshot of our T&Cs page on the new web site. It is impossible as the terms were updated with the site. They were also updated on Slots of Vegas.

Now, some players have found access into pages of our web site no longer linked through the current updated one. There is no way for us to avoid this. We have tried to re-route all pages coming from the old Prism Casino and Slots of Vegas web sites to the new updated ones, but if you look hard enough, I am sure that you will be able to find old links to our old pages. That cannot be avoided. That does not change the fact that our current Terms & Conditions are the ones that apply.

The reason for Netherlands being placed on our NO BONUS list is due to a small amount of players found to be using strategies found to be abusive of our generous bonus program. Unfortunately this affects many good players negatively and we are very sorry about that. There was no other way that we could find to avoid these problems. We do invite all players from these countries to join our casino and play with no bonuses.

This player who posted this chat however, failed to mention that he was informed that we identified him as one of a group of more than 10 players, already identified as bonus hunters, on several other sites, that he was informed of this, and that he was also told that was one of the major reasons for his refund. Please see

The Casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion. If an account is banned, locked or closed by the casino for one reason or another, the casino will then return only the latest deposit back to the customer within 30 days as stated by the casino's terms and conditions.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


All players found to be breaking the new casino Terms & Conditions, as well as the old ones, have been refunded and their accounts have been restricted from receiving bonuses in the future. I have also set up an automatic system that will exclude players from all of our bonus banned countries from redeeming coupons. This change can only be made once every hour though, and some players may still slip through the cracks. For that, I apologize.

However, the terms and conditions of the casino will be enforced. I am sorry that so many people are so quick to make a judgment on us before reviewing the details of the situation with all people involved. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Christopher DiAngelo
Prism Casino, Slots of Vegas & VIP Lounge Manager

For the record, I dont think I am God. In fact, it would be a perfect world for me if all players followed the rules, there werent groups out there looking to exploit casinos and use forums like this one for cover, and I did not have to take time away from clients that follow casino rules, and read the terms of our casino, to play PR rep.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Chris,
It is certainly possible to remove pages from anywhere but internet archives. Might be a good idea to be sure there aren't any stragglers from old servers, etc.

Unfortunately it's moot now to a large degree for most players here. Although there are those who would use this forum as another angle to exploit, most of us here are intelligent players who make our own decisions. Not to mention that fraudsters are banned from this forum as soon as they are found out. Please don't blame the forum, it can be your best friend as well.

I'm disappointed that you guys were not more proactive in dealing with complaints here. I've never had a problem with your customer service and you have personally helped me on more than occasion. All issues have been resolved. Thank you.

I can tell you that "...The Casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs,..." is one term that 99.9% of the players here won't be 'down' with, though almost every casino out there has a similar condition. When it is used (I'm not saying that's the case here) to not pay winnings to players who have followed the T&C it can be an achilles heel.

I'm afraid you will have a long hard uphill climb here; but staying vigilant to players concerns posted here and answering them openly on the forum could go a long way to rebuilding trust. Some will come on just to bash a casino, others will post here after feeling they got no satisfaction directly. Some will, properly, try to resolve any issues long before posting here. (You will see kudos here from time to time as well)
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Chris,

As explained many times in the past, it is definitely not right to renege on a bonus deal after all wagering requirements have been met. In addition, I understand that the bonus was credited manually. That means that the CSR concerned should have known that players from the Netherlands were barred from the bonuses. Unless your staff were poorly informed that should not have happened. Since you took the discretion of crediting this bonus you should pay up.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Players

Dear forum members,

I am writing all of you this letter as an official reply to complaints made against us from the players in the Netherlands. First, I would like to point out that we have placed a new Prism web site up on the net as of Mar 1st, 2007. In addition to different policies, like a new VIP program and improved web pages and graphics, we had also made some changes to our terms and conditions. These changes took effect on Mar 1st, right along with the addition of the new web site. I would like to also point out that you will not find any player with a screenshot of our T&Cs page on the new web site. It is impossible as the terms were updated with the site. They were also updated on Slots of Vegas.

Now, some players have found access into pages of our web site no longer linked through the current updated one. There is no way for us to avoid this. We have tried to re-route all pages coming from the old Prism Casino and Slots of Vegas web sites to the new updated ones, but if you look hard enough, I am sure that you will be able to find old links to our old pages. That cannot be avoided. That does not change the fact that our current Terms & Conditions are the ones that apply.

The reason for Netherlands being placed on our NO BONUS list is due to a small amount of players found to be using strategies found to be abusive of our generous bonus program. Unfortunately this affects many good players negatively and we are very sorry about that. There was no other way that we could find to avoid these problems. We do invite all players from these countries to join our casino and play with no bonuses.

This player who posted this chat however, failed to mention that he was informed that we identified him as one of a group of more than 10 players, already identified as bonus hunters, on several other sites, that he was informed of this, and that he was also told that was one of the major reasons for his refund. Please see

The Casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion. If an account is banned, locked or closed by the casino for one reason or another, the casino will then return only the latest deposit back to the customer within 30 days as stated by the casino's terms and conditions.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


All players found to be breaking the new casino Terms & Conditions, as well as the old ones, have been refunded and their accounts have been restricted from receiving bonuses in the future. I have also set up an automatic system that will exclude players from all of our bonus banned countries from redeeming coupons. This change can only be made once every hour though, and some players may still slip through the cracks. For that, I apologize.

However, the terms and conditions of the casino will be enforced. I am sorry that so many people are so quick to make a judgment on us before reviewing the details of the situation with all people involved. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Christopher DiAngelo
Prism Casino, Slots of Vegas & VIP Lounge Manager

For the record, I dont think I am God. In fact, it would be a perfect world for me if all players followed the rules, there werent groups out there looking to exploit casinos and use forums like this one for cover, and I did not have to take time away from clients that follow casino rules, and read the terms of our casino, to play PR rep.

This is a whitewash. After the OP made the complaint, I loaded the Slots of Vegas website, not from a link, but directly. After some difficulty (which should not be the case), I was able to navigate through the pages to the T & C for the bonuses, and there was no mention of either Finland, or the Netherlands. Naturally, these have been updated, but the fact remains that the date of March 1st applies only to the Prism site, and not Slots of Vegas. There is no mention on Slots of Vegas that the casino is actually part of Prism, nor a member of the dreaded "virtual group" - it is as though this is something you want to hide, most reputable casinos have an "about us" page that identifies the main casino group, who they are, where they are, licencing and regulation details, independently audited payout figures. Your site won't even specify which software the casino uses, I have to look at the game illustrations and work it out for myself.
All I can say about the Slots of Vegas site is that it looks nice. There again, so did the Crystal Palace one:rolleyes:

The terms and websites may have now been properly updated, CS trained not to give bonuses to banned players etc, but sadly the horse bolted last month, and no amount of repairs to the stable door will bring it back. the entire group is rogued, and Bryan has gone for 2 weeks. Bryan will not assist forum members who are silly enough to join a casino on the rogue list, so the "uphill climb" is going to be a "hill" like Everest for the virtual group now.
 

martinbl

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Location
Netherlands - Enschede
This player who posted this chat however, failed to mention that he was informed that we identified him as one of a group of more than 10 players, already identified as bonus hunters, on several other sites, that he was informed of this, and that he was also told that was one of the major reasons for his refund. Please see

:eek2:

Now okay, this is getting so ridiculous it's not even funny anymore...
Since I'm the one who posted the chatlog, I can only presume that you're accusing me of bonus abuse and tht's why I don't get my money.
I even got informed!

Now okay, here we go...
The 7th of januari(!) I registered at your casino and played... Didn't win anything...

Wooohoo, I lose, you win, I'm the kind of customer you want in your casino!

Of course I didn't here anything from it accept the bonusspam you guys sent me every day...
So no, I also didn't get a bonus abuse label..
What do you have in mind?
"Hey Martin, you're a bonus abuser!"
- Now why is that?
"Well, you lost and didn't win anything, that's why!"

Does that sound believable to you? I didn't think so...

But in all that "Weeeeheeeee, please take our bonus! Take it! Now!" I finally found something worthwile and decided to play.
I got in the livechat because I forgot to claim the bonus manually and of course your employee would give me the bonus!
Now Chris, if you labeled me as a bonusabuser, wouldn't I even have the option to even play in your casino?
And if, I say IF I can login, wouldn't there be all sorts of flashing lights and beeps if I decided to play?
But no, I even got the royal treatment!
"Here you go! I will add the bonus mannualy!"

Now doesn't that seem strange? Your employees first get my records, look through them, see I'm from the Netherlands.
Which means I can't even GET the bonus which according to you was mentioned everywhere since the first of march(!!!)
So TWO WEEKS after it was mentioned anywhere, but your own employees don't know anything about it?!

And besides that, as you claimed, I was also I'm labelled as a bonus abuser but they STILL mannualy add the bonus to my account?!?!

No Chris, you don't label customers who only lose money as bonus abusers...
And no, I'm not a grap-and-go bonus abusers,since I'm registered almost 3 months(!!!) ago!

And the last one... NO, it wasn't in your rules since the first of March that people from the Netherlands couldn't play bonuses.
Or, maybe Samantha, your own employee, is blind? (not only Samantha, the guy who gave me the bonus must be also)

Why do I ask?
Because SHE was the one who pointed me at your rules... And when I told her the Netherlands weren't even mentioned (Gosh, did you even READ the chatlog I posted?!) she looked herself and found out I was right, THEN she gave the b*llshit excuse that I had to read the Prism rules.

So, let's get this straigt:
- You're accusing me of bonus abuse although I'm a playing and only losing customer for about 3 months.
- All the chat employees I spoke to are blind.
- All the chat employees I spoke to are not only blind, they also don't know about rules that are used over TWO WEEKS already (as you claim)
- Google cache is setting up a big conspiracy against your casino

Now Chris, let me ask you about something, doesn't that sound like a bad slapstick movie? Come on, even Laurel and Hardy would reject the script...
 

kempe

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Netherlands
Chris,

As explained many times in the past, it is definitely not right to renege on a bonus deal after all wagering requirements have been met. In addition, I understand that the bonus was credited manually. That means that the CSR concerned should have known that players from the Netherlands were barred from the bonuses. Unless your staff were poorly informed that should not have happened. Since you took the discretion of crediting this bonus you should pay up.


I couldn't agree more!
 

patrina

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Location
Ontario, Canada
New Too

Hey there, I started playing around a couple months ago with free spins, kept hitting the 3 sevens on Oceans seven and transferred over close to $2000, then deposited $20, hit the sevens again and ended up cashing out at $1000. This was at captain cooks, asked for my money fedexed and after providing documentation had it in a few days. Then recently won a little at casino tropez, wow you casinoers must have alot of patience cause I very nearly lost it. Documention? Geez over and over again. Finally "I" got it right I guess cause it was on the way.... then, thought I would check and just make sure it really was and guess what? nope not yet, I would get it in 21 days... What? Oh no, that wasn't in the email you sent me. Then they said, oh sorry thanks for correcting me you will receive your $300 in 7 to 9 business days. Finally....I got it after 3 weeks, when it DID arrive I got an extra $48. I didn't ask why.:rolleyes:
 
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