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SoV creating their own laws after the first excuses don't hold up

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by martinbl, Mar 24, 2007.

    Mar 24, 2007
  1. martinbl

    martinbl Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Netherlands - Enschede
    Deposited at Slots of Vegas yesterday, but after depositing I realized I forgot to first redeem the bonuscode.
    Got to the chat and hey, no problem, the guy in the chat would manualy add the bonus to my account so I could start playing.

    Went great, got op to 850 and decided to ask how far I was playing through the WR.

    And then the trouble started :(

    According to Samantha from the livechat I wasn't even allowed to redeem bonuses so all my winnings would be voided!
    That couldn't be right, since it was one of her colleagues personally who added the bonus...
    No, according to her the bonus was automatic redeemed by me.

    Nah, I suggested she should ask her colleague who added the bonus and after she got that confirmed, it wasn't her colleagues fault to add the bonus and AFTER winning voiding it but noooo, suddenly it was my own responsibility to read the rules!
    But how can your own employees manually add a bonus to my account if I may not even play with it?
    She didn't really care, it still was my own responsibility to read all the rules on the slots of vegas site.

    And now the funny part... I DID!

    I opened the site, read all the rules on the SoV site I could find but NOTHING about people from the Netherlands who aren't allowed to play bonusses! The Netherlands aren't even mentioned anywhere on the site... (Thank god I have screenshots of all the rules)

    So Samantha, how can I read rules on your site who aren't even there?

    Whoops, she checked, saw I was right, she didn't know that, but still I wouldn't get my money :confused:

    Wait...
    First you tell me that the bonus was added automaticly so it was an error I even got it, but that wasn't even the case, it was added manually...
    THEN you tell me I should have read the rules myself...
    I read them, but there's nothing about the Netherlands not being entitled to play bonuses.
    And NOW you tell me I have to GUESS the rules, since they aren't even mentioned on your website?
    You must be kidding me!

    And then she tried her latest and probably worst excuse... She gave me a link to the prism rules...

    Uh, real nice, but what have I got to do with the Prism rules?

    According to her because Prism and SoV are sister companys and that's why I had to read the Prism rules.

    What the...?

    Where on the SoV site is mentioned that I can stick their own rules in my *** because I have to follow the rules of an external site then?

    Then Chris came in, told me Prism was the main site and closed the chat :mad:

    Nah, I have an idea... I'll open two hardware stores.
    In one, I will state that I give no garantuees or warranties and when people with red, blue, black, brown or green shoes have problems with my product they can stick it in their *** and get no great deals.
    No one will buy anything from that story I presume.

    Then I'll open another where I mention in the contract that people with all type of shoes get free extra hardware.
    And after I got my money and people want to have the extra hardware I'll just mention the other stores' statement and contract and throw them out the store.

    Now, I ain't a law student, but I don't think that would hold in court, so my question is, can casino's get away with "own rules and laws" like this?

    I have attached the complete chatlog and screenshots of all the SoV rules made on March 16th.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Mar 26, 2007
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Just taking the liberty to post your chat-log:

    Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.
    Chat InformationThank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Samantha'. How can I help you?
    martinbl: Hi samantha
    martinbl: can you tell me how far I am at meeting the WR?
    Samantha: Let me check
    martinbl: of course
    Samantha: I have to inform you that players from Netherlands are not entitled to redeem bonuses
    martinbl: That's sound like a mistake to me
    martinbl: I was handed the bonus manualy
    Samantha: We are going to refund your deposit
    martinbl: Euuh, how can I get added a bonus MANUALLY if I'm not even allowed a bonus?
    Samantha: The bonus was automatically redeem
    martinbl: Oh no
    martinbl: It was added manually since I forgot to redeem it first
    martinbl: You can ask your collegae about that
    Samantha: I understand that but it is your responsibility to read the rul
    Samantha: rules
    martinbl: That's a nice way to put it.. However, the Netherlands aren't even MENTIONED in the rules
    martinbl: And I have screenshots of all the possible T&R, play rules and withdrawal rules
    Samantha: Those are the rules the casino has
    Samantha: I'm sorry if you didn't know it
    Samantha: We will refund the money
    martinbl: Euuh wait
    martinbl: first you tell me that the bonus was added automaticly, but it was added manually
    martinbl: THEN you tell me I should have read the rules myself
    martinbl: And NOW you tell me I have to GUESS the rules, since they aren't even mentioned on your website? You KNOW that wouldn't hold in court, do you?
    Samantha: They are on the website
    Samantha: click here
    Samantha: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Samantha: and scroll down, you will see a list of countries that CAN'T take bonuses
    martinbl: I don't have to read other websites' rules now, do I
    martinbl: I read the rules of the slots of vegas casino
    martinbl: and there, there wasn't mentioned a thing
    Samantha: That is the main website
    Samantha: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Samantha: prism and slots of vegas are the same casino
    martinbl: That's nice to know, but where does it mention on your website that I have to follow the rules of prism?
    martinbl: Exactly, nowhere
    martinbl: Prism isn't even MENTIONED in the rules on your site.. And since I don't have a magic ball...
    Samantha: sir when you downloaded slotsofvegas
    Samantha: it is clearly stated that we are sister companies
    Samantha: the money will be refunded to your neteller account .
    martinbl: But it's nowhere stated that I have to follow rules of an external site instead of your own site
    martinbl: But this is getting me nowhere, can I talk to your manager... At least he's supposed to know that it's legally not possible to void money like this
    Chris: Sir, Prism is not an external site
    Chris: It is our main casino.
    Chris: Slots of Vegas is a portal of Prism.
    Chris: Your deposit will be refunded and you are welcome to play with us in the future with no bonus.
    Chris: The rules page on Slots of Vegas will be updated shortly.
    Chris: Thank you for your understanding and have a wonderful evening.


    Just plain mindless.
     
  4. Mar 26, 2007
  5. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    So-called reasons with no logic or common sense. These guys should be permanently rogued.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Mar 26, 2007
  7. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Avenel, New Jersey
    "DITTO"
     
  8. Mar 26, 2007
  9. kempe

    kempe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Netherlands
    It would be nice to get them rogued, they took 2200 dollar profit from me with no reason.
     
  10. Mar 27, 2007
  11. catrina m

    catrina m Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    service
    Location:
    US of A
    congratulations, you won but were very sorry you can't keep the money.

    This is utterly absurd. And by the way, Have a wonderful evening!
     
  12. Mar 27, 2007
  13. coinchantal

    coinchantal Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Financieel administrator
    Location:
    rotterdam
    Last week I wanted to play there also but in the tc of slots and vegas states:


    No free chips or bonuses for the netherlands so I diden t play there.


    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  14. Mar 29, 2007
  15. martinbl

    martinbl Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Netherlands - Enschede
    Yeah, I noticed, they added it later, round the 20th...

    But can't anyone from casinomeister help me with this stuff?
     
  16. Mar 29, 2007
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Surely :D

    You can contact their General Manager who is located here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/realtimegaming.php
     
  18. Mar 29, 2007
  19. FRENCHIE

    FRENCHIE Dormant account

    Occupation:
    poker player
    Location:
    charlotte north carolina
    ARE ALL CASINOS LIKE THIS

    i have recently joined here and my reason was for nonpayment of winnings it seems to me that they want you to deposit your hard earned money and when you win they want you to jump through all kinds of hoops to get your money i cannot understand why they want to do this to their customers that way.i also didn't realize this kind of problem was so common till i joined ,it has really opened my eyes i guess i can understand why the united states passed the law to a point because the cutomers were being taken advantaged of. i honestly hope everybody gets their winnings including myself but i don't think that is going to happen i hope i am wrong could anybody give me some insight on how many people are waiting on their money from varies sites just curious
     
  20. Mar 29, 2007
  21. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    The passage of the law had nothing to do with protecting the player, it was strictly a protectionist and moralistic issue.

    For players in the states, you shouldn't be participating in online gambling unless delayed payments don't bother you. There are still a number of legitimate operations that still accept US bets - but payments have proven to be very problematic.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Mar 30, 2007
  23. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    How in the world is it the player's responsibility to read not only the T&Cs of the casino where he deposited but those of all its SISTER casinos?

    You can't make some of these excuses up.
     
  24. Mar 30, 2007
  25. kempe

    kempe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Netherlands
    to bad that the manager Chris thinks he is god and can change the terms from his casino, forgets to upload them and afterwards he claims that the Terms where on his site from the 1th of March... you big cheesy liar!

    Well easy money for mister Chris, and he still keeps sending me his 500% bonus emails! Stick them up your .....
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2007
  26. Mar 30, 2007
  27. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    Indeed, the evidence completely disputes the manager's claim. The OP has posted a screen shot of the T&C from March 16th which does not specify that players from the Netherlands are banned from bonuses. Also, in the later chat the CSR admits that the rule in question needs to be updated on the SOV website.
     
  28. Mar 30, 2007
  29. kempe

    kempe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Netherlands
    So what can be done? I have the idea that CM is not really fond on jumping on this case:) Just take the loss and continue...:mad:
     
  30. Mar 30, 2007
  31. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    For starters, make sure that the General Manager is alerted to this thread. Even if CM does not get involved in mediating this dispute, the negative publicity that's being generated here may be enough to change the casino's position.
     
  32. Mar 30, 2007
  33. kempe

    kempe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Netherlands
    i sent them this email:

    Hello,


    Please check these two links regarding Slots of Vegas:


    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...es/17134-slots-vegas-not-paying-winnings.html

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...wn-laws-after-first-excuses-dont-hold-up.html


    I redeemed a coupon at Slots of Vegas and fullfilled their wagering requirement. Requested a cashout and after 2 weeks I get an email that my original deposits where returned because of the fact that people from the netherlands where not allowed for bonus.

    But at the moment I redeemed the coupon this wasn't the case. I have screenshot and a page from Google cache that on 15 march still Netherlands wasn't on their list, and I redeemed the coupon on the 5th of March!!!

    Chris the manager just tells me that he uploaded the changed terms on the 1th of march, but that is just not true Furthermore, people could still redeem coupons, that is their problem, they can't blaim the casinosoftware for that, they operate the casino AND the coupon/software system.

    What can I do to get this solved?

    Regards,

    Joris Kempen
     
  34. Mar 30, 2007
  35. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    They are now rogued. The whole virtual group. Hope this is permanent so that no more innocent players fall into their trap.
     
  36. Mar 31, 2007
  37. VIP_Lounge_Mgr

    VIP_Lounge_Mgr Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Slots of Vegas Official Reply

    Dear forum members,

    I am writing all of you this letter as an official reply to complaints made against us from the players in the Netherlands. First, I would like to point out that we have placed a new Prism web site up on the net as of Mar 1st, 2007. In addition to different policies, like a new VIP program and improved web pages and graphics, we had also made some changes to our terms and conditions. These changes took effect on Mar 1st, right along with the addition of the new web site. I would like to also point out that you will not find any player with a screenshot of our T&Cs page on the new web site. It is impossible as the terms were updated with the site. They were also updated on Slots of Vegas.

    Now, some players have found access into pages of our web site no longer linked through the current updated one. There is no way for us to avoid this. We have tried to re-route all pages coming from the old Prism Casino and Slots of Vegas web sites to the new updated ones, but if you look hard enough, I am sure that you will be able to find old links to our old pages. That cannot be avoided. That does not change the fact that our current Terms & Conditions are the ones that apply.

    The reason for Netherlands being placed on our NO BONUS list is due to a small amount of players found to be using strategies found to be abusive of our generous bonus program. Unfortunately this affects many good players negatively and we are very sorry about that. There was no other way that we could find to avoid these problems. We do invite all players from these countries to join our casino and play with no bonuses.

    This player who posted this chat however, failed to mention that he was informed that we identified him as one of a group of more than 10 players, already identified as bonus hunters, on several other sites, that he was informed of this, and that he was also told that was one of the major reasons for his refund. Please see

    The Casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion. If an account is banned, locked or closed by the casino for one reason or another, the casino will then return only the latest deposit back to the customer within 30 days as stated by the casino's terms and conditions.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    All players found to be breaking the new casino Terms & Conditions, as well as the old ones, have been refunded and their accounts have been restricted from receiving bonuses in the future. I have also set up an automatic system that will exclude players from all of our bonus banned countries from redeeming coupons. This change can only be made once every hour though, and some players may still slip through the cracks. For that, I apologize.

    However, the terms and conditions of the casino will be enforced. I am sorry that so many people are so quick to make a judgment on us before reviewing the details of the situation with all people involved. Thank you for your time.

    Sincerely,

    Christopher DiAngelo
    Prism Casino, Slots of Vegas & VIP Lounge Manager

    For the record, I dont think I am God. In fact, it would be a perfect world for me if all players followed the rules, there werent groups out there looking to exploit casinos and use forums like this one for cover, and I did not have to take time away from clients that follow casino rules, and read the terms of our casino, to play PR rep.
     
  38. Mar 31, 2007
  39. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Chris,
    It is certainly possible to remove pages from anywhere but internet archives. Might be a good idea to be sure there aren't any stragglers from old servers, etc.

    Unfortunately it's moot now to a large degree for most players here. Although there are those who would use this forum as another angle to exploit, most of us here are intelligent players who make our own decisions. Not to mention that fraudsters are banned from this forum as soon as they are found out. Please don't blame the forum, it can be your best friend as well.

    I'm disappointed that you guys were not more proactive in dealing with complaints here. I've never had a problem with your customer service and you have personally helped me on more than occasion. All issues have been resolved. Thank you.

    I can tell you that "...The Casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs,..." is one term that 99.9% of the players here won't be 'down' with, though almost every casino out there has a similar condition. When it is used (I'm not saying that's the case here) to not pay winnings to players who have followed the T&C it can be an achilles heel.

    I'm afraid you will have a long hard uphill climb here; but staying vigilant to players concerns posted here and answering them openly on the forum could go a long way to rebuilding trust. Some will come on just to bash a casino, others will post here after feeling they got no satisfaction directly. Some will, properly, try to resolve any issues long before posting here. (You will see kudos here from time to time as well)
     

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