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source of wealth - where is this going

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by shadow123, Feb 7, 2018.

    Feb 7, 2018
  1. shadow123

    shadow123 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    midlands
    I for one am getting very uneasy at the way very sensitive information is being routinely requested by casinos.
    I realize that it being done under the umbrella of EU directives (god knows why they think they have the right to
    do it), but the nature of the information being requested is very intrusive and who knows where this info is being stored or who has access to it.I would imagine the tax authorities already have the power to demand
    access to it or if not will certainly get the power soon.
    The chance of me getting a SOW request is very unlikely, but if I did I would close the account immediately,
    not because I have anything to hide but because it is NO ONES DAMN BUSINESS.
    Imagine if despite the casinos best intentions, this info is ever hacked the implications for the innocent
    player could be horrendous.
    I wouldnt give this type of info to anyone unless I was legally obliged to do so,and given the past
    reputation of the casino industry they would be last people I would send it to.
    I realize that most UK casinos are honest and have to conform to this EU directive,but it is an uneasy
    path we are being asked to tread.
     
    EmilyEmma likes this.
  2. Feb 7, 2018
  3. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
    But where will it end?
    Someone mentioned last week that a B&M casino asked it.
    Will it spread to Arcades?
    People can spend hundreds on the T7 cabinet machines and on these as well as the FOBT's in the bookies, you can put money in and just collect it straight back out again, perfect way to clean money.
     
    shadow123 likes this.
  4. Feb 7, 2018
  5. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    Something which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet in all these AML type threads...

    What if it's actually the casinos themselves who are being targeted, rather than the players ?

    Who's to say, there aren't some casinos who are actively involved with money laundering ?
     
  6. Feb 7, 2018
  7. shadow123

    shadow123 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    midlands
    like I said where is it going
     
  8. Feb 7, 2018
  9. SpinUk

    SpinUk Senior Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    London
    Its going same way as the other EU legislations - rather than do the job of policing transactions and money laundering investigations they are now passing these responsibilities and costs onto the casinos, who of course are taking the path of least resistance by requesting it on withdrawal rather than deposit.

    And if a cashout or 2 is confiscated on the way, then alls the better for them...

    So the EU pats itself on the back at what a consciencious move they have done (at no costs to themselves), the casinos will get the odd confiscation where players refuse to provide it, as well as enhanced player database with such gems as savings amounts and total income (hmm I wonder what their marketing departments will do with that), and the players get sweet fa.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  10. Feb 7, 2018
  11. electronictonic

    electronictonic Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Carer
    Location:
    UK
    Totalitarianism is the goal, don't worry in the future everyone will be micro chipped, then you just scan your microchip from your hand into some device on your computer
    and it brings up all your info, David Icke predicted this more than 20 years ago and they all laughed, those people are not laughing so much now.

    Don't worry physical cash won't be around in a few years time.



    Implanted Microchips Will Inevitably Result in the Elimination of Cash

    The inevitable result of transferring all transactions to electronic means is of course the abolition of cash. Without cash, not only are there no longer anonymous purchases, but consequently anyone from the manufacturer of your chip to the bank you use could at any time strip away your ability to make purchases. This is incredibly dangerous because it demands a certain level of conformity and obedience in order to stay alive in the modern world.

    In July 2017, Visa announced a new initiative called “The Visa Cashless Challenge” which would be used to give up to $500,000 to 50 restaurants that go ‘100% cashless’. Of course, when more people use digital forms of payment, Visa makes more money. If cash was entirely eliminated then Visa and the other credit card companies would rake in much larger profits. One economist wrote in a column for the London Telegraph that banning cash would allow more government control over the economy and grow their ability to monitor the populace, which he claims to be a good thing.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Feb 7, 2018
  13. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
    And a muggers new weapon would be a meat cleaver
     
  14. Feb 8, 2018
  15. Charlotte

    Charlotte Accredited Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Head of Product
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Hi,

    The source of funds/wealth is a topic frequently asked about to which I see rarely some answers, I thought about writing a little something about it - I am not a lawyer and my explanation is certainly inaccurate but at least I can tell you what I know. Feel free to complete/correct me.

    The source of funds sometimes requested to casino players is related to AML4 (Anti-money laundering) directives, you can find some documentation about it on internet although the directive is pretty vague and non gambling related so it is difficult to find clear documentation applying to gambling.

    The 4th AML directive states that any institution in the EU should "take adequate measures to establish the source of wealth and the source of funds which are involved in the proposed business relationship or transaction". As a casino operator you need to put in place the appropriate measures to ensure that no dirty money flows in/out of your casino. Each licence has its own implementation of the AML directive (making it more restrictive and suiting better to the particular nature of gambling)

    Problem is, it is based on risk assessment, nobody tells operators exactly what to do or whether they are doing enough, although they get punished if they haven't done their homework properly. Let's say a casino operator gets audited and asked why a particular individual passed the AML verification, he'll have to present what has been done to make sure this guy wasn't gambling with dirty money - the operator will have had assessed whether the source of funds provided relates to the scale of the money gambled on his casino (one could assess that gambling 1 000€/m while earning 2 000€/m is suspicious for instance). Penalties for operators are "business-breaking" huge.

    Casino operators are welcome to use any mean possible to conduct their investigation - after all it is to fight terrorism :) (for instance using third party softwares that have conducted their own investigations about an individual is acceptable so you wouldn't have to conduct the investigation yourself although still be liable). What you need as an operator is to have put your best effort until you acquired the belief that an individual is not using dirty money, and that you are capable of justifying it. (That involves putting the right procedures in place, train your staff and regularly verify that your system is functioning)

    Operators have the duty to report suspicious individuals/transactions (which I suppose will get investigated by the national Financial Intelligence Unit somehow?).

    The AML4 is out since 2015 but came into force for online gambling in June 2017 - in short; nobody cared about it before and now everyone is rushing in. It's new for everyone and that's probably the most mentioned topic in conferences, with GDPR and UKGC - at least from my product perspective. To be honest I have no idea where this is going, it seems a bit extreme to me if applied "strictly" which is where it tends to go for the moment, although when the subject will be more clearly understood it might become less messy and restrictive, after all the AML3 directives are quite smoothly applied now (the ones for which you need to provide your proof of ID, address and payment method already).

    That was my two cents on the matter. I apologize in advance if something is incorrect or incomplete.

    In short ; that is why even though you are a loyal player of whichever casino for many years, suddenly you are requested to provide your source of funds and source of wealth. Because casino operators slowly get in the line - and they all will have to eventually.

    And... AML5 is coming... announced to be published mid-2018 and to come into force end of 2019.

    @SpinUk: I believe the MGA and UKGC will take measures to prevent this (not sure when though) so hopefully players should regain a little bit of safety. On SM and LL, we'll release soon a new "seatbelt" that will block deposits and warn the player when he reaches the "source of funds" zone so it won't be at withdrawal anymore. It is also a matter of informing players of what is going on, why, how... since it's quite new for everyone.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  16. Feb 8, 2018
  17. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    fair play for trying to supply something Charlotte )
     
    Charlotte likes this.
  18. Feb 8, 2018
  19. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    That's the first sensible Idea from a casino that I've read.

    Let's hope the other casinos prove their integrity by implementing something similar
     
    Charlotte likes this.

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