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Something to ponder about...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by kimss, Apr 9, 2008.

    Apr 9, 2008
  1. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    A fresh perspective on "bad luck"... Since in my online gambling experience this seems to be a very consistent behaviour from the casino operators.

    How come, in the beginning of an account - >5000 deposited, you will not get any manager bonuses for loosing streaks. But after this they throw $500 at you all the time when complaining.

    Could it be they know they stand nothing to loose? Atleast statistically it's a no brainer. It makes me wonder.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Apr 10, 2008
  3. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Yep, you are right. They have nothing to lose. Besides, you only complain after you lose quite a bit. They respond by giving you freebies in the hope that you will deposit and lose more.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 10, 2008
  5. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Another one, have you ever heard the argument for low payout?

    Most of the games are bonus round based, so unless you don't get the bonus round you cannot expect a fair payout. You were unlucky.

    A typical answer if loosing $500 in $5 spins, since there is not enough statistical spins to be accurate.

    On the other hand, if you then deposit say a $1000 more, and do infact manage to get many a few bonus rounds, even with retriggers, however they do not pay at all since spins give squiltch.

    You still get the same answer, you need the bonus rounds. When confronting them with the fact you had several, however they pay nothing...

    There seems to be no more arguments to offer as an explernation. To bad it's the player doing the risk all the time...

    We are back to the endless bad luck!
     
    3 people like this.
  6. Apr 10, 2008
  7. venetian

    venetian Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Corp Director for a College
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Okay now evryone don't blast me too hard for this reply.... First of all every gambler takes a risk. As long as you are with a good casino that CM has blessed you are ahead of the game. You sound like you are a big player and that you enjoy slots. My advice would be that you learn (with auto hold you don't even have to do that) video poker. Played correctly you have a much greater chance of having a winning session rather than a losing one. Slots are the casinos bread & butter, they know they have a huge house edge. Take your bets down a bit, if you're ahead a couple hundred, cash out. Winning is as much about money management as it is with having good luck. When I go to the B&M casino if I play slots I will eventually lose, even with a decent win or two. But with VP the wins are so large you are bound to take a bundle home more times than not. This has been a lesson to me as I gave in to the lure of the slots and abandoned VP for about a year. When I went back last month to exclusively playing VP I won a royal each time I went and then a bunch of other good paying hits. You might just try it once and see how it goes. Let us know.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 11, 2008
  9. pacers31

    pacers31 Banned Used - Repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Marketing Rep
    Location:
    Californication
    I too wonder about this "bad luck" thing kimss. I have played online for over 5 years now and I have lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 60K. I can count the number of withdrawls on one hand that I have made in that time. (o.k., maybe two hands if you count the times I could have and screwed up and kept playing!) Of that 60K, I only collected back about 5K total. Could have been around 9K if I had cashed out when I should have some times. Still, that is a good old fashion ass kicking in my book, and I am now retiring from the online version of gambling. I will contribute to the indian places around here from now on if I want to play. At least I know I am playing at a place with regulated action that is overseen by the state. Fuck this, there is so much more to do. Bye all, I'd say good luck with this online thing, but that would give you false hope. I just plain give up.
     
  10. Apr 11, 2008
  11. pacers31

    pacers31 Banned Used - Repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Marketing Rep
    Location:
    Californication
    Sorry Venetian, but I don't believe you hit a royal every time you played VP. That is really absurd.
     
  12. Apr 12, 2008
  13. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    They do have something to lose. All no-deposit bonuses have value. The playthrough requirements and intelligence of the player determine the expected value.

    Now in the case of compulsive gambling rejects, the casino stands to make more money by throwing them a bone. A small win on a free bonus might lead to countless more deposits in the future. The more money the player deposits and wagers, the higher his lifetime expected loss.

    It's all psychology, and it works very well on your average ploppy.
     
  14. Apr 12, 2008
  15. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    Your expected loss was probably very close to your actual loss. Games play so fast online, and it's so easy to increase your bets, that when playing carnival games with 2-5% house advantages, the money goes fast. God forbid playing slots with 5-10% house advantages.

    Congratulations on not killing yourself, as I probably would have done that after 60K in losses. At least you've stopped the bleeding online. Though it still seems you're resolved to continue pissing away money at the live casinos.
     
  16. Apr 12, 2008
  17. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    harsh, dudes! mellow out, man. :cool:
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Apr 12, 2008
  19. pacers31

    pacers31 Banned Used - Repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Marketing Rep
    Location:
    Californication
    bpb, you do realize this is a gambling forum don't you?? You seem to consider us as online compulsive gambler rejects. My question is this, Why are you here to comment on the evils of gambling, knowing that this is a pro gambling site?? Also, I have no idea if your math and analysis make any sense either. Not sure how you gauge what is normal losses. In any event, you surely don't want to get into name calling around here, you won't like the results. It is comforting to know that we have a psychiatrist, mathematician, and evangelist all wrapped up in one here at CM! LOL!
     
    3 people like this.
  20. Apr 12, 2008
  21. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    If I hit a Royal everytime I played I would stay with that one for sure :lolup:
    I would never play any other type of game.
    I hit one Royal in my life 30 years of playing.and you hit one everytime you play :lolup: God I would play each day if I knew I would hit like that.
    What is the % rate for someone that everytime they play hits a Royal 101%
    Stay with it and laugh all the way to the bank.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Apr 13, 2008
  23. venetian

    venetian Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Corp Director for a College
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Wow you guys are brutal! I said I changed to VP about a month ago and I had gone back twice when I wrote my comment. It is true those two times I went I did hit a royal each time. They are progressive at my Indian Casino and I was playing .25. One was for $1075 the other was $1442. This weekend I went and took home about $700 getting a few Aces etc. My point was that when I used to play VP my odds were much better than when I started playing slots.....that's all. I enjoy both but when I need a good win I play VP. Jeeze lighten up.
     
  24. Apr 13, 2008
  25. jas2587

    jas2587 Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    FL

    When you wrote your comment you left out 2 - two times you also left out that
    they was at a Indian Casino


    online an in a actual casino are totally different
    if you are going to tell a story tell all the facts before you call people
    brutal an to lighten up


    your words
    "As long as you are with a good casino that CM has blessed"

    Cindy
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
  26. Apr 13, 2008
  27. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    :lolup: Your the one that told your story :lolup:
    It's ok we all make mistakes.:notworthy:p:lolup::D
     
  28. Apr 14, 2008
  29. venetian

    venetian Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Corp Director for a College
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    In looking again at my original post I did say that I went to the B&M casino and I am sorry that I did not say that I had only been twice in the last month. But as far as online & Indian casinos being different I would agree that it is easier by far to hit a Royal online. Kidfromcall won 2 back to back as posted #11882 so did AuntiIdiot #11838. Juliack is the one I was originally thinking about as she looks to play mostly VP and has shown us a dozen or more in a fairly short period of time. I was only highlighting my recent VP wins to suggest that maybe he should try a game that has a lower house edge and to try some good money management skills to help protect such a large loss. When I could play online I played everyday and I played mostly VP and had good success. Next time I will try to be more clear. My apologies to those I upset by my posts.
     
  30. Apr 14, 2008
  31. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Thanks for responding to this thread. I am still amazed at the level of denial around gambling. As we all know, other businesses cheat and do dirty tricks all the time. However gambling, where all the money is - they don't. To me this is a huge logical flaw to even consider them being honest.

    Also, some casinoes are already "known" for being able to alter payouts, I guess that was a problem the day that fact was exposed. However, now the shock is over and it's an excepted fact. Man - people are really strange!

    It makes me think of another example. Some years ago when living in Sweden whenever I was talking to people and telling them about the secret white airplane that CIA use around in the world. They send it around, pick up people in secrecy and let them off in Egypt for torture. The US then bought the information back from Egypt, and could - ironically - state they didnt do torture.

    When saying this, people told me I was mad! This was not true. If it was hell would be on loose... blabla...

    Then, it was exposed - it was true!

    I was expecting a mass happening, people should run around in the streets, get angry, demonstrate - people should not except this... But not - they do, they did and they still will!

    There reaction was this: Ahh, I knew it! Those sleezy bastards! haha. Well, I have nothing to hide so in the name of terrorism I guess it's all right...

    WHAT?

    I guess my point here is that this is the same reaction you see on slots. Strong denial, you just don't want to believe there is something going on. There is perfect RNG, and I am the whining bitch not excepting my losses.

    Surely, I have to be MAD!
     
    4 people like this.
  32. Apr 14, 2008
  33. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    kimss do you play poker? scandinavia is a hotbed of poker phenoms. and poker's always fair (except with house players or hackers). add me! :thumbsup:
     
  34. Apr 14, 2008
  35. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Yo Happy!

    Yes, Poker is as fair as it get's, just as with Blackjack - Aslong as we are playing face to face on a table!

    I never started playing poker, just because it just takes to much time. Playing poker is not a hobby, it's a lifestyle in my opinion. I know quite a fiew poker players, and the common ground they share is they are always playing poker - it's like there is nothing else in life to do! I do not want that I can tell you!

    I am pretty sure I would have become quite good in poker - after all I succesfully run a software company so I can't be that stupid, LOL (wops - slots... My akilles). Then again, I do not want that poker lifestyle, that is not for me! I much rather get my silk shirt on, swing a drink in my left hand and a cigarette in my right hand towards the slots! Doing some spins while having fun, talking to the people around - having a good time!

    The poker phenomenon is huge over here, I know. Especially in Sweden. To be honest it's more of a decease if you ask me, :D In sweden you almost get the feeling that Texas Holdem is the new national sporting event! Damn fools!

    It's nice to see that the youth are brainwashed to believe that happiness is achieved in getting rich - fast! You are not supposed to work for you money, after all - work is for suckers! And the motto of the big brand doing all the commercials, it's just wonderful! The slogan that really sets you off in life and give's you great values to carry on... Build your future!

    ALL IN!
     
  36. Apr 14, 2008
  37. bb28

    bb28 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Customer Service
    Location:
    US

    You made some great points there and you are right in asking why should we expect casino's/software to be any different in general than our governments and fortune 500 businesses and people in general. It's wrong to expect that casino businesses and/ or software is any different than the general climate of the business world that seems to thrive on greed and corruption. There are numerous possibilities of something being tainted along the way. Flaws in the RNG (accidental or purposely), the software itself, casino management, auditors, the list goes on. Then add people in general to that mix and you've got a lot of potential for outright stealing and cheating. We are talking about billions of dollars here and there are no real checks and balances. How could they be when there is no one to oversee online gambling as a regulated industry. There should be some sort of world wide regulating overseer, but still there will always be potential to be cheated and it's a risk that we shouldn't take lightly. The way things are now with the current climate in the US and other countries certainly ups the ante for unscrupulous activity.
    I don't think you are MAD nor a sore loser. You have brought up some things that we all should consider. It's easier for us to tell ourselves that everything is just fine in the online gambling world and no one would ever rip us off because so and so said it was true. Gambling is a risk.........but in the online world it is much more riskier than we would like to believe. It's easier for us to stick our heads in the sand, ignore common sense and pretend everything is fine.
    (Hey I don't want to think about this stuff..........I gotta go spin those reels, I might get lucky today.:rolleyes::rolleyes: And if I'm winning......what could possibly be wrong with this place. :rolleyes::rolleyes:) Isn't that what we tell ourselves?
     
    3 people like this.

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