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Software glitch = lost winnings at Casino Europa?

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by KnickNut3, Nov 21, 2005.

    Nov 21, 2005
  1. KnickNut3

    KnickNut3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Sydney
    A few days ago I was playing pontoon at Casino Europa.

    Bet 20, dealt AA, split, get a pontoon on one hand, on the other hand I double and get a 20. I stand.

    Dealer doesn't move. Game frozen.

    Took an hour of tech support, had to ctrl alt del to close the game and e-mail the situation. Their response:

    "We've fixed your problem! Don't worry, the game was reversed and all bets were returned to you."

    WTF? I was set to win the one hand at 2 to 1 (guaranteed), and the other doubled hand would win 80% of the time as well. If I had busted, they wouldn't have given me my money back!

    Takes 20 minutes on the phone and pitching a bitch to low level CSR to get up to high level CSR, who says she needs to contact the manager about compensating me.

    I get an e-mail a few hours later promising a 100 bonus. Nice. But what they don't tell me: It's a "play bonus," and I'm already at 400, so a 100 play bonus (with more WR) really doesn't mean much to me at this point, considering I don't intend to bet high enough to go down there. It's not worth nearly the 80 I lost on that play (or even the 40 I lost from the pontoon).

    After trying to contact them again and failing, I decide I'll just play with it. It's not worth it to spend another hour on the phone over that money.

    First hand of pontoon, I get a pontoon! Crap locks up again! Again an hour, and again I DON'T GET MY WINNINGS.

    I send an e-mail to the upper level CSR who got me the play bonus originally. The e-mail is intercepted by general tech support, who insist "you didn't lose money, we gave you your bets back," and that "the casino's final decision is that a play bonus of 100 adequately compensates you for your trouble."

    They also admitted that there was a glitch in the program that disproportionately affected good hands, like pontoon. I sent another e-mail asking that the person to whom I actually addressed the e-mail actually receive it. I also questioned how refusing to compensate players when the game has a glitch that favors the house is scrupulous gaming practice. It's been 3 days and I never received a response on that, however, so I'm assuming it was ignored.

    Any other suggestions? Demand to talk to the manager? Now I've lost 120 (minus the chance dealer made 20 or 21 on that one, so we'll say 105 or so), and all I've gotten in return is a play bonus that I hopefully won't even need. Even if one argues that since my doubled 20 is not worth compensation because the hand never ended, the pontoons are guaranteed winners.

    Anyone else been frozen at these casinos? Did you get your winnings if it happened like mine? Am I being treated fairly?

    Thanks...
     
  2. Nov 21, 2005
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Europa Casino strives for excellence in both our reputation in the industry and among players.

    We maintain a truly fair, transparent, and secure gaming environment and build long-lasting relationships with our players. To demonstrate our transparency there is a unique, built-in game and financial history feature. Any player can review every wager s/he has ever placed, including the exact date and time, amount wagered, winnings, and detailed game results. The financial transaction history displays all deposits and withdrawals from the player's casino account. Both of these features can be accessed at any time while online.

    Europa Casino operates under full legal license issued by the Gaming Commission of the Government of Antigua and Barbuda.



    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    WE DO NOT WARRANT THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL BE NON-INFRINGING OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE ERROR FREE OR UNINTERRUPTED OR THAT ANY DEFECTS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE OR THE SERVERS ARE VIRUS-FREE. IN THE EVENT OF COMMUNICATIONS OR SYSTEM ERRORS OCCURING IN CONNECTION WITH THE SETTELMENT OF ACCOUNTS OR OTHER FEATURES OR COMPONENTS OF THE SOFTWARE NIETHER US NOR OUR SOFTWARE PROVIDER WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY COSTS, EXPENSES, LOSSES OR CLAIMS ARISING RESULTING FROM SUCH ERRORS. WE FURTHER RESERVE THE RIGHT IN THE EVENT OF SUCH ERRORS TO REMOVE ALL RELEVANT GAMES FROM THE SOFTWARE AND THE WEBSITE AND TAKE ANY OTHER ACTION TO CORRECT SUCH ERRORS.

    What they are saying is that they've pretty much done what they are required to do. If there is a glitch in the software, all bets are void whether you had a win or not. If this had frozen up when the dealer had a 21 or when you had busted, you wouldn't have had an issue with this.

    This situation sucks, and it's up to the casino to handle it they way they see fit. Some management staff "feel the pain" of a voided win and make a generous compensation. Some casinos don't do anything at all. Looks like you've hit the middle ground.

    You can take this issue up with Playtech, but I think it won't do any good since the management had already compensated you.
     
  4. Nov 22, 2005
  5. KnickNut3

    KnickNut3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thanks for the reply, Casinomeister.

    I kinda knew that deep in the T&C there'd be statements allowing them to do what they're doing. What I have more of a problem with is (a) the glitches adversely affect good hands, and (b) I was asked if I am happy with my compensation, and when I say no, I'm not, my e-mail is ignored.

    Oh well, guess I'll just have to get back at them by winning ;)
     
  6. Nov 24, 2005
  7. mgibson99

    mgibson99 Dormant account

    Location:
    Washington DC
    I sense that you are only half kidding with this statement. If you are even remotely serious, this is not the smartest strategy in my opinion. Apparently there is a known glitch that affects primarily winning hands. You're not happy with how they resolved your complaint, so the way to get back at them is to take your business elsewhere.
     
  8. Nov 24, 2005
  9. mgibson99

    mgibson99 Dormant account

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Hey Bryan.........

    Bryan, isn't the larger issue not whether they resolved this individual complaint in accordance with their T&C, but the fact that there is a known software glitch that affects primarily winning hands? I would think that the correct response would be to take this game down until the software problem is corrected.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Nov 24, 2005
  11. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    You hit the nail right on the head here. Although....in this instance, their T&C clearly states that any "malfunction" voids any and all bets. They have every right to give back the bets and not pay the winnings resulting from the hand. That said, it still doesn't give them the right to keep a game up and running that they admit has a serious glitch to large(?) wins.

    What gets me though is the horribly bad judgement in playing more of the same game after it locked up on you and it seemed to be suspicious right off the bat...not to mention the non-satisfactory resolution from CS. Not to be rude, the following statement applies pretty good...Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.. Ideally, just cashout and take your business elsewhere, play different games, or simply wait on a fix for the game in question.
     
  12. Nov 24, 2005
  13. Slotmachine

    Slotmachine Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    US
    Casino Logic

    Amen to that. It never ceases to amaze me that some folks complain about a Casino, then go right ahead and deposit some more in the same casino:confused:

    However, this leads to a bigger issue. I detest the Casino's logic here: ""you didn't lose money, we gave you your bets back". That's just WRONG. When you make your bet, you have an agreement with the casino - you are paying for the chance to win. The winnings ARE your money, and if you lose the winnings, you lose YOUR money. OK, fine, software malfunction voids plays, fair enough, but the Casino's comment reflect the crooked thinking of many casinos - as long as they return your initial bet, they claim you haven't lost anything. They've just added to their house edge by not honoring the win! Good for them, eh.

    Another similar issue: There are a lot of complaints like this: I've played at Casino X for several months, deposited several times, and lost say $1000 in all. Then one day you deposit a $100 and hit a $5000 jackpot. The casino denies your withdrawal, citing a software glitch, failed faxback form, wrong address, whatever. Even bonus abuse. They return your $100 deposit, and call it resolved. Thing is, you didn't deposit $100. You deposited $1100 !!! They should refund all of it. Otherwise they just made the house edge about 90%, and that's really not very good odds for the player, eh.

    This is of course not to say ALL casinos are like this. I'm talking about these rogue ones.

    Stick to CM approved casinos and adhere to the bonus rules. -->> no headaches like this.

    Cheers,
    SM
     
  14. Nov 24, 2005
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You're right. I was speed reading and thought the player mentioned it was something on his end. I'll send something off to Playtech right away.

    In the meantime, I would suggest that players avoid this game until it has been determined what exactly caused this glitch.

    Thanks mgibson99 for keeping me on my toes. You get a gold star for the day. :D
     
  16. Nov 24, 2005
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
  18. Nov 24, 2005
  19. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Is this a Playtech operation?

    Last time I visited the site the ownership was listed as:

    ValhallaUSA c/o Pentia A/S Copenhagen in Denmark.
     
  20. Nov 24, 2005
  21. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It's Playtech :D

    Imperial E-Club Limited which is the Casinotropez.com group.
     
  22. Nov 24, 2005
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    They got it already. From Playtech:

    We did receive such complaints from players but by now the bug was found, fixed and uploaded to all casinos.

    So I'm guessing it's safe to go back into the water.
     
  24. Nov 24, 2005
  25. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    but best to avoid Playtech pontoon anyway as they have a dubious set of rules, one in particular which is not undocumented. The result of it is a game with a casino edge five times higher than at cryptologic.
     

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