Software Errors the Game is up / Warning to the Community

[GhostRidah]

That just earns you a second set of "bollocks". It is your choice not to "name & shame" where you encountered such software errors, nothing to do with "legal reasons" as you implied earlier. Yes, we are all aware of the blight of software errors, but we also are aware that any attempt to rig the games will be spotted eventually. We have known for some years about RTG being able to set the TRTP between 3 settings on their slots, and a similar number of settings on their tables. We even know that RTG denied it until they got caught out by the "double pear" that occurred on their slot "fruit frenzy" only on the lowest setting, but not the mainly used 95% setting. Now, if you are referring to RTG in all this, we know already, and have had the debate as to whether it can be done "on the fly" by the operator, on a per player basis, or indeed only once every 6 months at most upon application to RTG, which is the "official" response from RTG once they realised this particular "Pandora's box" was open and we had hidden the key.

The rogue pit contains around half a dozen "rogue software" entries from developers that were "busted" by the community for running software that could be tampered with in the way you describe. All that is needed is a big enough dataset of results and the right statistical approach, and you can show that it is more than 95% likely that a given game developer or operator is "cheating".

An "RTP reset" only has an effect on a non random "compensated" game. For a random game, all it does is wipe the log file of past results, which has no effect on future outcomes. If Microgaming decided to "RTP reset" all it's slots, we would see the "slot temperatures" all go to 80.0, but we would all realise that it didn't make the slightest difference to our chances of winning.

This Conversation is Concluded by Me : I will not listen to bully style people who cannot learn a simple rule feel free to post a complaint I made it quite clear the conditions of the conversation.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This Conversation is Concluded by Me : I will not listen to bully style people who cannot learn a simple rule feel free to post a complaint I made it quite clear the conditions of the conversation.

Unfortunately, these rules do not count here. It's the forum rules set by CM that count that matter, and even if you decide not to participate further, it won't shut the debate down. Besides, you already said this earlier, but decided to continue to participate again when others decided to carry on debating the issue without you, which is STILL going to happen with or without further input from yourself.

The problem is that you have told us that there is some pretty serious rogue practice going on where we didn't expect to find it, and then you try to give the impression that these trusted software suppliers and operators have thrown their lawyers at you in an attempt to cover it up. We now have to debate the issues if only to reassure ourselves that this is merely another applicant for one of Dunover's foil hats, and that we can go back to playing our favourite games as before without a serious concern that we are getting screwed.

If we lose 5% of every Dollar, Euro, or Pound that we have ever wagered, then we are getting a FAIR GAME, not getting screwed.

 

[mimi26]

This Conversation is Concluded by Me : I will not listen to bully style people who cannot learn a simple rule feel free to post a complaint I made it quite clear the conditions of the conversation.

why do you feel bullied, saying Bollocks to what someone says is not bullying in my book

 

[spintee]

I take you you did not all hear?

He has already made a deal hence why does not want more to do with the thread, The deal was they would leave the RTP RESET switch alone for 24hrs, Have you seen the winners screen shots

Only having a joke GhostRidah, People have there own theory and I believe that the supplier has some sort of control over the day to day rtp but overall the trtp will as games state,

 

[Sophiel]

While some may stand for the what was the term 'Bollicks' ill get straight to business what the OP is saying happens
I know at least 100+ people that can jump on here and give their versions as well .

Without a doubt there's stuff going down and I don't care who these mofoz are I seen this on google and im going for the throat
those game errors occur when your winning cause they don't like people winning.
Happen's at Guts Casino , Casinoluck , KingPlayer Casino , Reelcrazysportsbook(now closed) , Jetbull , and the rest of
that everymatrix group of crooks you get a cashout and then it starts happening think I'm the only one wait for the flood
and the dude is talking about NETENT AND MICROGAMING not RTG.

Confuse and twist it all you like peeps onto you hard !

 

[mimi26]

Are they putting something in the water in New Zealand

 

[Sophiel]

Only water is flowing by you and it stinks of Corruption right back atcha sister

 

[goatwack]

I Guess In New Zealand Every Word Starts With A Capital Letter?

 

[mcgameboy]

Are they putting something in the water in New Zealand

Yep. Johnnygotthebone spiked it with tin and aluminium while on a recent business trip* there. With a little bit of help from his alter ego, kirknurmi.

* The PROVEN SYSTEM World Tour

 

[goatwack]

Ahh man I miss the ramblings of ol' Johnny, and who can forget his Proven System lol!

 

[GhostRidah]

I see this thread is descending into the realms of insanity so ill try to address what I can where I can :

1. Baseless Accusations Aside the first thing that has to be considered is what is actual fact and not speculation
making false statements without proving them is madness in itself.

2. I see there have been some casino's mentioned by poster Sophie I can only relate to one of them being Guts
Casino the others that you mentioned I haven't noticed any error problems within games : regards to Guts I know
they have been experiencing general issues which are not of the type of error that I'm referring too.

3. How did the topic of New Zealand come up and to what end does that serve sounds like a school yard debate
other than anything constructive.

4.

The base RTP gets reset upon a crash? That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying these types of slots are compensated like the pub fruities alluded to earlier?

And, casinos have no control of the RTP settings of their slots. That is built in by the slot designers. Besides, there is no need to control any of that. As long as the TRTP is less than 100% the casinos will win in the long run and that's what they do.

This has been debated here for a long time and with all the members here who have been involved in the casinos end of the business no one has ever been able to show any of these types of behavior from reputable software suppliers and I believe the cost to the industry would be too high to play games like you are describing.

Bigjohn with regards to Casino's being able to set their RTP Michael Shackleford responded to an ask the wizard question regarding this very question I'm currently trying to find the exact
quote but he made it quite clear that the RTP's can be set for land based casinos and for online casino's : as previously explained (seems i'm going to have to quote everything)

1. EPROM is an acronym standing for Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory. More importantly EPROMs are a microchip used in slot machines that determine the theoretical return of the game. A slot manager can change the return of a slot machine by simply replacing the EPROM chip, although regulations may require additional paperwork. (Land Based) - xttp://wizardofodds.com/gambling/glossary/#eprom

Reference 1 : xttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/technology/12casino.html?ei=5089&en=9e945a28ba5016c6&ex=1302494400&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&_r=0

2. So we get things right here Let it be known that the SOFTWARE COMPANIES set the RTP when they provide the software that does not mean this is set in stone :


Reference 2: (a) Real Series Slots RTP’s – If you are playing at a Real Time Gaming software powered casino, then there is something important that you need to know in regards to the payout percentages of their Real Series slot games. This is that the operators of RTG casino sites are given one of three different RTP settings which they can set their Real Series slot games to play out on.

These figures are generally 91.00%, 95.00% and 97.50%, and sadly the operators of Real Time Gaming powered casino sites do not let you now just which RTP their slot games are programmed to play and pay out at, so be wary of playing these types of online slots unless you know which one of those RTP’s are in play, and stick to those sites offering the 97.50% option, if you can find any!

(b) xttp://www.top10casinosites.net/casino-game-playing-strategies/slot-game-playing-strategy :

Online Slot Game Myths

You should never listen to rumours or gossip in regards to online casino slot machines, for due to the way the internet works, anyone can say anything about a slot game whether it is based on fact or fiction! With this in mind we would like to give you peace of mind in regards to playing slot machines online by exposing some of these myths!
Altering RTP’s – You may read online that some online casinos can alter the payout percentages of their slot games at will, and that could mean you may be thinking you are playing a high paying slot when the opposite is true!
The four software providers who are listed above do not give the operators of their casino gaming platforms the option of amending or altering the payout percentages, and as such the RTP’s of their slot games are set in stone and cannot be changed once they have gone live.
Some online casino software companies can alter the RTP’s of their slot games, and as such this is why it is always important to stick to those casinos that utilize the major gaming platforms.

Far as I'm concerned nothing is set in stone are you telling me because someone hands a guy a lump of clay and tells him not to sculpt he's not going do it but that is speculation
and that's as far as ill go regards to Net Ent and MGS but whole thing is one hell of a grey area if you ask me.

5.

Unfortunately, these rules do not count here. It's the forum rules set by CM that count that matter, and even if you decide not to participate further, it won't shut the debate down. Besides, you already said this earlier, but decided to continue to participate again when others decided to carry on debating the issue without you, which is STILL going to happen with or without further input from yourself.

The problem is that you have told us that there is some pretty serious rogue practice going on where we didn't expect to find it, and then you try to give the impression that these trusted software suppliers and operators have thrown their lawyers at you in an attempt to cover it up. We now have to debate the issues if only to reassure ourselves that this is merely another applicant for one of Dunover's foil hats, and that we can go back to playing our favourite games as before without a serious concern that we are getting screwed.

If we lose 5% of every Dollar, Euro, or Pound that we have ever wagered, then we are getting a FAIR GAME, not getting screwed.

I have not said anything of the sort i'm simply not going to start pointing fingers randomly is what the case is , the software suppliers were never in question , no operator lawyers are in question , and the things I have observed are indeed questionable regarding certain operators but its 50/50 I mean if i'm wrong if its a bloody adobe flash player bug which caused it ...hell of a roll of the dice ..but logic dictates that is not the case .

 

[vinylweatherman]

So, there really are no "legal reasons" as such, you are not disclosing anything because you don't have any hard evidence, merely tin foil hat speculation based on your experience of "software errors" at a selection of casinos.


The RTG settings are nothing new, and we have also learned that Microgaming browser based casinos have had many problems in the past due to lack of capacity on the Quickfire servers. This DOES affect some casinos more than others because capacity is allocated by Microgaming based on estimates of expected load, so if a casino attracts more players than it had predicted in it's business case, it will suffer lack of capacity which players will see as "constant lag, disconnects, resets, casino error 2, etc". It is fixed by the casino going to Microgaming and having it's capacity increased. I believe GUTS at one time experienced serious problems with it's Quickfire offerings due to a mismatch between capacity and players. This was corrected by having Microgaming increase the capacity available to GUTS. It affects individual casinos because the servers are not a free for all, each casino is limited to it's own slice of capacity, so casino A could be having issues whilst casino B is giving players an error and lag free experience even though both are offering the same Quickfire games through the same servers.

It does seem that it's browser based Flash powered games that suffer the most from this problem, so it could well be down to Flash related problems, rather than anything more sinister. There is a move away from Flash towards HTML5 that may improve the experience.

One known issue is that in some cases, an connection/server error can cause the game in play to jump out of real money mode into "fun" mode without it being at all obvious to the player (the game "refreshes" in place, rather than closes and disconnects). The player can then play on without realising, and this can lead to them thinking that they have been deliberately screwed over when it appears that their real money balance does not reflect what they have experienced in play. This is usually noticed more when a player has won.

The "RTP reset" therefore may merely be an artefact of the underlying connection errors and the browser's way of dealing with them.

 

[GhostRidah]

So, there really are no "legal reasons" as such, you are not disclosing anything because you don't have any hard evidence, merely tin foil hat speculation based on your experience of "software errors" at a selection of casinos.


The RTG settings are nothing new, and we have also learned that Microgaming browser based casinos have had many problems in the past due to lack of capacity on the Quickfire servers. This DOES affect some casinos more than others because capacity is allocated by Microgaming based on estimates of expected load, so if a casino attracts more players than it had predicted in it's business case, it will suffer lack of capacity which players will see as "constant lag, disconnects, resets, casino error 2, etc". It is fixed by the casino going to Microgaming and having it's capacity increased. I believe GUTS at one time experienced serious problems with it's Quickfire offerings due to a mismatch between capacity and players. This was corrected by having Microgaming increase the capacity available to GUTS. It affects individual casinos because the servers are not a free for all, each casino is limited to it's own slice of capacity, so casino A could be having issues whilst casino B is giving players an error and lag free experience even though both are offering the same Quickfire games through the same servers.

It does seem that it's browser based Flash powered games that suffer the most from this problem, so it could well be down to Flash related problems, rather than anything more sinister. There is a move away from Flash towards HTML5 that may improve the experience.

One known issue is that in some cases, an connection/server error can cause the game in play to jump out of real money mode into "fun" mode without it being at all obvious to the player (the game "refreshes" in place, rather than closes and disconnects). The player can then play on without realising, and this can lead to them thinking that they have been deliberately screwed over when it appears that their real money balance does not reflect what they have experienced in play. This is usually noticed more when a player has won.

The "RTP reset" therefore may merely be an artefact of the underlying connection errors and the browser's way of dealing with them.

I've decided that the screenshots I've got , the Camtasia video footage , and what I've seen with my own two eyes is simply the result of a adobe flash player issue I've looked at 3
systems with mixed results which is starting to make me doubt the theory that said if there's anything you want to discuss privately you just let me know bud and will sort it .

 

[paul7388]

Damn I was playing Mega Moolah the other week and then game crashed. Wonder if that means I was just going to hit the Mega Jackpot and the damned casino cheated me.

Seriously in playing over 15 years online there have always been errors and when game reloads it plays, sometimes good sometimes bad.

I stupidly played with about starting balance of £200 at 60p once on Lotrs original without a feature, Even with the wins along the way my balance was down to about £20 and the casino crashed. Was mad that I had played so long on one slot that wouldn't even give a feature(mind this was years ago so even then slots could go hundreds or thousands of spins without a bonus its not just today).

Anyway after reloading casino went back to it and ended up getting a good paying feature about 10 spins later. Things went better and ended up cashing out £500. So does this mean the casino was thinking damn this boys unlucky. We will crash the game and hopefully he will come back on and we will fix it for him to have a bit of luck. No I don't think so either lol

 

[Simmo!]

Just a thought but if the casinos could reset the RTP or the main softwares were rigged, don't you think in some 20 years of online gambling that at least one "disgruntled" ex-employee would have come on to the Internet and shared the fact?

It does happen: remember the Absolute Poker scandal? But if there was something seriously up then you wouldn't just have the odd player every now and again speculating on what they see: you'd have something more solid to work with.

---

What you should do, if you honestly do believe what you are saying, is share the Error Codes and the Casinos where you are getting this and get input from other players. That's how you get to the bottom of something like this: you work together to crack it. Shouting about something and not providing anything solid to work with will inevitably just get you labelled by many as someone who is looking to blame someone else for their losses. It can also be indicative of a problem gambler, hence the scepticism when claims like these crop up.

 

[GhostRidah]

ok ok ill relate two experiences :

1. Kicked off with a bank roll of 150 played nine liners MGS every time a big hit came the game crashed and on the free spins , switched software to netnet went fine till
hits came then game became unavailable kept reloading the games got to the point where I gave up and switched to IGT and Yggdrasil without any crashes no hits no crashes
zero'd out.

2. Similar situation to the First played with a 120 bank roll and dropped 90 cent bets on MGS 9 liners didn't get anywhere on adventure palace so switched to Thunderstruck
hit a crash reloaded the game boom low and behold 3 rams the payout was lousy kept pushing and suffered through 3 more "this game is available" messages
switched software had some luck with IGT no crashes 580ish bank roll tried to switch to Net Ent couldn't get a single game to load switched back to MGS suffered through more
crashes with 9 liners gave up went to 243 liners ran smooth up till when i started hitting 6 dollar bets and struck features multiple times game went down (immortal romance)
balance 1200ish wgr was 600 odd switched to some Betsoft no crashes no features no fancy hits got out of jail with around 450ish.

And another thing I noted along the road "no bonus no crashes" seems to only happen with bonuses got me stuffed why but without namin anythin i've found some that never
crash regardless what game it is and i'm stickin with em call it what you like I give up more interested in the cyclone heading our way.

 

[Simmo!]

OK - Error 2 messages? That is a common error code with Microgaming games on a "Quickspin" Flash implementation. It relates to communication delays between the player and the server. It is a very common issue and has happened forever. The same error affects Net Ent games if I remember.

I've seen it hundreds of times and it is very frustrating (I often end sessions where this happens) but it doesn't seem to have any impact on the session. You will also notice delays in each spin with a longer gap before the first reel lands often meaning a winning spin.

I've also seen it manifested as an Error 112 (I think) which is accompanied by a message similar to "Unable to communicate with Account Management System".

 

[dunover]

- T

Not one of mine alas. I provide a decent antenna plus a personal fit that stays put while you play.

 

[GhostRidah]

OK - Error 2 messages? That is a common error code with Microgaming games on a "Quickspin" Flash implementation. It relates to communication delays between the player and the server. It is a very common issue and has happened forever. The same error affects Net Ent games if I remember.

I've seen it hundreds of times and it is very frustrating (I often end sessions where this happens) but it doesn't seem to have any impact on the session. You will also notice delays in each spin with a longer gap before the first reel lands often meaning a winning spin.

I've also seen it manifested as an Error 112 (I think) which is accompanied by a message similar to "Unable to communicate with Account Management System".

I've decided to revise my theory as being an aimless conspiracy theory I've been busy in the background and I've seen different results on 3 other computers ...I'm going to put
it down to a local problem within my O.S ..bit of blunder there ..it was just that I was reading other threads and it seemed in line with my theory .. but I've heard enough and
seen enough to doubt it's anything less than a blunder on behalf of epic proportion's.
I appologise to the community for my wild theory which is flawed and unproven ...and as we are speaking implementing a new build and literally throwing out the old .

 

[Simmo!]

and as we are speaking implementing a new build and literally throwing out the old .

Good luck with the build. Takes me back to my time as a PC Support analyst many moons ago and how I dreaded rebuilds LOL