Resolved SmartLive 9000 winnings not being paid

khan687

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mumbai, India
I'll start from the end, Smartlive Casino promised to pay but doesn't pay.

They promised by email and in public at askgamblers.com portal.

I waited two months but no money came. Is there a way to make them pay ?

I made a 200 deposit and got 300 welcome bonus.

I chosed to play Roulette.

I finished 9008 euros.

I could see this casino is on TV and looked ok to me to play big.

At the beginning they spoke to me on the phone and offered to pay half of the winnings.

I refused and they agreed to pay in full (why to pay half ?)

Here are their promises:


First they said this (it came after I sent documents ) :

Dear M,

Thanks for contacting us.

Sorry for the previous Email we sent you.

In order to process your withdrawl we need a valid phone number, so we can run a verification.

Kind Regards.

Dario Meini
Customer Service Advisor

In the verification phone call they said they are paying.

Then this came:

Dear M,

I am writing to inform you that due to unusual betting patterns on your account we have decided to keep this account closed, refund your initial deposit back

into your Neteller account.

We apologise for any inconvenience.

After that they offered by phone to pay half , I refused and they agreed to pay it in full:

Dear M,

I am writing to confirm that your account has now been reactivated and that your remaining balance 8808 euro is on its way to your neteller account.

Kind regards,

Stelios Pardalis
Customer Service Team Leader

14-16 Regent Street, London, SW1Y 4PH
Direct: 0800 279 8510 Fax: +44 (0) 207 747 5288


The next step before ignoring me was to apologies for the delay

"Hi
Apologies for the delay, I will call you with an update as soon as I have one."



"Hi
Apologies, you should certainly have received the funds by now, I will need to chase this with our Payments team and find out what is happening. I'll respond

on here as soon as I have information from them.."



And now they ignore me at all
 

Gremmyboy

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Location
Australia
Just curious as to why all the 'promises' to pay you were via phone and then the rest of the responses were via email? Is there any visual evidence of these promises to pay that you can produce?


Cheers
Gremmy
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
The first thing that strikes me about this is that attempt to chisel the player down in paying his winnings - right there, that is a terrible indictment of unprofessional and afaic rogue behaviour.

Certainly not something one would expect from an operator claiming a UK Gambling Commission licence (see below)* let alone buggering about on payment.

This is supposed to be a reputable company, but it is certainly not behaving like one, judging by the OP's post. Slow pay or other shenanigans is always a worrying pattern, because it could suggest cash-flow problems.

I would recommend a PAB and see how fast that gets them into gear.



* "licensed and regulated by the UK Gambling Commission, with license number 000-002715-R-103240-005".
 

khan687

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mumbai, India
The promise to pay was given on public

Just curious as to why all the 'promises' to pay you were via phone and then the rest of the responses were via email? Is there any visual evidence of these promises to pay that you can produce?


Cheers
Gremmy


The following answer was published by Smartlive rep at askgamblers.com :
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


"Hi
Apologies, you should certainly have received the funds by now, I will need to chase this with our Payments team and find out what is happening. I'll respond on here as soon as I have information from them.."
 

dazlazz

Registered
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
London, UK
Hi Khan,

I've sent an email to the CEO who I know - also the link to this thread.

They should be in touch shortly.

Regards,

Daz
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
Before you do a PAB. Are you sure you didn't break the T&C's

"8.Bets placed on Red, Black, High, Low, Odd, Even, or bets on 15 spots/numbers or more, will not count towards the bonus wager requirement. Accounts where this occurs in excess may indicate bonus abuse and could lead to your account being closed, winnings withheld and deposits returned."
 

khan687

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mumbai, India
I did not break any of their rules.

To me the fact they wanted to pay half shows the amount is the issue.

I waited 2 months, even if cash flow is the problem I should have been paid by now. The casino says that not me.

Thank you Dazlazz for your help with the CEO, I hope he helps me get paid.
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
To me the fact they wanted to pay half shows the amount is the issue.

I spoke to Mr.Stelios and he offered me to drop the complaint for 4000 EURO or I get nothing, I refused, I want to be paid in full, I won and I did nothing wrong

Yes, but if you don't have proof the conversation took place and Stelios doesn't confirm that he offered you this, then this isn't the issue.

The issue should be why are they delaying your payment. Hope Smartlive's ceo sorts this out for you.
 

DiamondGeezer

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
May 12, 2007
Location
NOT Pennsylvania!!!
It won't be a cashflow problem as they are a big operation and are on mainstream UK TV. An offer to pay half would not indicate a cashflow problem IMO more an unwillingness to pay the player.

As usual there is probably more to this than has been revealed so far.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I await the result of this with interest, because serious accusations have been made, and we all now know that the company's top management has been advised of this thread and its allegations.

Dicking around with a player's winnings by slow pay delays and chiselling on the amount to be paid (if we are to take the OP's post at face value) triggers suspicion on a company, no matter how large it appears to be. Size and integrity do not necessarily go together - look at the shenanigans at 888 just this week as an example of that.

IMO this issue needs to be addressed in the interest of the company reputation, and I hope we are not going to see another of those under-the-table deals concealed behind a non-disclosure agreement.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I read the complaint at ask gamblers, and I saw payment promised. I also saw in the original complaint by the OP a style of playing that contravenes or skates the current terms, as Rick Deckard has provided them. That doesn't mean they were the terms in place at the time the OP played or cashed out. It may just mean they don't want someone else to win that way with a bonus. They may be the terms at the time also.

It's only a short time since the OP last had any answers via ask gambling, but there have been quite a number of failed promises to date.

One or two players where you tighten your terms on a bonus are a learning curve IMO. If your promotions department can't do math, hire someone who can as a consultant.

This was specifically a bonus that allowed roulette play, and I think the OP was quite mindful not to contravene the terms. As he should be. We are always told to read the terms and conditions.

I confess that sometimes I skim terms and conditions that don't apply to me, and I'm not really a roulette player. But if roulette is allowed, hedge betting is not. Usually, you can't bet red or black, odd or even, the near even bets. And I've often seen that you can't bet 2/3rds of the board. 15 is a little unusual number I have to say, but many roulette players have some kind of "system". Put a $1 down on the whole middle row, (12), and a surround bet covering say 32, that's 18 spots, I see land based players play that. But they are not there with a match bonus.

While there is no evidence that a partial payment was offered, there has not been an accusation by the casino of contravention or terms, and last post by the casino at ask gamblers was looking into payment delays. That was earlier this week, but not the first promise to follow it up after approving full payment.
 

khan687

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mumbai, India
All I say is the exact truth of what happened. They offered me on the phone to pay half, I refused and they say ok we will pay everything.

I explained in email why I refused to the offer and Mr Stelios replied don't worry I pay you in full.

Here is the Email - Dear Sirs,

Please refer the Email to Mr Stelios

To continue our phone conversation, I hope you understand why I
refused, try to put yourself in my place what would you do in such a
case.


and his reply

Dear M,

I am writing to confirm that your account has now been reactivated and that your remaining balance 8808 euro is on its way to your neteller account.

Kind regards,

Stelios Pardalis
Customer Service Team Leader


Today they broke another record with the lies and fake stories to deny payment.


Hi,

Apologies for the delay responding.

The player took several weeks to provide us with documentation when requested, gave a fake phone number when signing up and used a proxy IP address to access the site. When our Senior Management team learnt of the issues surrounding this account, the decision was made not to pay him. We argued the case for the player and got them to agree to pay half to the player as a goodwill gesture, but the player turned this offer down. We are not willing to pay the full amount due to the issues surrounding his account, and have therefore closed his account due to the following in our Terms and Conditions...

1. I never registered a fake phone, the phone I registered is the phone I spoke to them when they called

2. I sent the documents 12 hours after they were requested! (I have the emails with me)

3. I never use IP proxy and I don't even know what it is.

I ask them to apology for their lies and pay me in full
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
What an utter load of bollox, this one really does take the biscuit, Proxy IP`s are used by many Internet service providers (ISP`s) and upto quite recently were used by my ISP - (Virgin), they do not however change the static IP assigned to a computer by your (ISP). Your IP address will be in the header of e-mails sent from your P.C. also.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Proxy server IP`s whatsoever, however, pt2, if you were multi accounting and wanted to disguise your IP, then bouncing around the World`s various Proxy servers with the connection speed of a pre WWI hamster driven telegram set-up, would be the way to go.

However, pt3, using a Proxy server in such circumstances will unfortunately not change the ID tags that every single piece of your hardware carries from the MAC numbers of network cards/routers/modems, to the unique registration numbers of your CPU and hard drives etc.

A fake telephone number? wtf is a fake telephone number? imho faking is what woman do in the throes of passion when they want a new dress etc or the ceiling painted.

So here we have a very poor case of playing the fraud card as an excuse not to pay, which in your case does not qualify, as they were/are/are not/maybe/will/will not/were going to pay - half/all/ of the sum owed - clearly proving this is not a case of fraud, which in most cases leaves the fraudster completely out of pocket as the casino keeps all funds including the deposit.

So, in the nutshell - You have committed fraud = no cash back whatsoever, or you have not = all winnings are kosher.

Good luck with this :).
 

jjezebel37

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Location
Belfast (Northern Ireland)
What an utter load of bollox, this one really does take the biscuit, Proxy IP`s are used by many Internet service providers (ISP`s) and upto quite recently were used by my ISP - (Virgin), they do not however change the static IP assigned to a computer by your (ISP). Your IP address will be in the header of e-mails sent from your P.C. also.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Proxy server IP`s whatsoever, however, pt2, if you were multi accounting and wanted to disguise your IP, then bouncing around the World`s various Proxy servers with the connection speed of a pre WWI hamster driven telegram set-up, would be the way to go.

However, pt3, using a Proxy server in such circumstances will unfortunately not change the ID tags that every single piece of your hardware carries from the MAC numbers of network cards/routers/modems, to the unique registration numbers of your CPU and hard drives etc.

A fake telephone number? wtf is a fake telephone number? imho faking is what woman do in the throes of passion when they want a new dress etc or the ceiling painted.

So here we have a very poor case of playing the fraud card as an excuse not to pay, which in your case does not qualify, as they were/are/are not/maybe/will/will not/were going to pay - half/all/ of the sum owed - clearly proving this is not a case of fraud, which in most cases leaves the fraudster completely out of pocket as the casino keeps all funds including the deposit.

So, in the nutshell - You have committed fraud = no cash back whatsoever, or you have not = all winnings are kosher.

Good luck with this :).


Made me laugh ;)
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
What an utter load of bollox, this one really does take the biscuit, Proxy IP`s are used by many Internet service providers (ISP`s) and upto quite recently were used by my ISP - (Virgin), they do not however change the static IP assigned to a computer by your (ISP). Your IP address will be in the header of e-mails sent from your P.C. also.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Proxy server IP`s whatsoever, however, pt2, if you were multi accounting and wanted to disguise your IP, then bouncing around the World`s various Proxy servers with the connection speed of a pre WWI hamster driven telegram set-up, would be the way to go.

However, pt3, using a Proxy server in such circumstances will unfortunately not change the ID tags that every single piece of your hardware carries from the MAC numbers of network cards/routers/modems, to the unique registration numbers of your CPU and hard drives etc.

A fake telephone number? wtf is a fake telephone number? imho faking is what woman do in the throes of passion when they want a new dress etc or the ceiling painted.

So here we have a very poor case of playing the fraud card as an excuse not to pay, which in your case does not qualify, as they were/are/are not/maybe/will/will not/were going to pay - half/all/ of the sum owed - clearly proving this is not a case of fraud, which in most cases leaves the fraudster completely out of pocket as the casino keeps all funds including the deposit.

So, in the nutshell - You have committed fraud = no cash back whatsoever, or you have not = all winnings are kosher.

Good luck with this :).

I think you've been going out with the wrong women......
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
What an utter load of bollox, this one really does take the biscuit, Proxy IP`s are used by many Internet service providers (ISP`s) and upto quite recently were used by my ISP - (Virgin), they do not however change the static IP assigned to a computer by your (ISP). Your IP address will be in the header of e-mails sent from your P.C. also.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Proxy server IP`s whatsoever, however, pt2, if you were multi accounting and wanted to disguise your IP, then bouncing around the World`s various Proxy servers with the connection speed of a pre WWI hamster driven telegram set-up, would be the way to go.

However, pt3, using a Proxy server in such circumstances will unfortunately not change the ID tags that every single piece of your hardware carries from the MAC numbers of network cards/routers/modems, to the unique registration numbers of your CPU and hard drives etc.

A fake telephone number? wtf is a fake telephone number? imho faking is what woman do in the throes of passion when they want a new dress etc or the ceiling painted.

So here we have a very poor case of playing the fraud card as an excuse not to pay, which in your case does not qualify, as they were/are/are not/maybe/will/will not/were going to pay - half/all/ of the sum owed - clearly proving this is not a case of fraud, which in most cases leaves the fraudster completely out of pocket as the casino keeps all funds including the deposit.

So, in the nutshell - You have committed fraud = no cash back whatsoever, or you have not = all winnings are kosher.

Good luck with this :).

Sorry for the continued derail, but that comment begs for it...I'll just say, I'm 100% with you on that one ..lol
Other than that, it sounds like this joint it trying everything, they've read about from rogue casino's, to avoid paying.
Maybe next week we'll hear how this player was wearing red socks, when their terms clarly said BLUE socks.
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
When our Senior Management team learnt of the issues surrounding this account, the decision was made not to pay him. We argued the case for the player and got them to agree to pay half to the player as a goodwill gesture, but the player turned this offer down. We are not willing to pay the full amount due to the issues surrounding his account, and have therefore closed his account due to the following in our Terms and Conditions...

You don't suspect Smart Live are trying to Fob you off.

Fob off (1. to appease or trick (a person) with lies or excuses)

If they really suspected you as a fraudulent player why would they be so daft to offer to pay you half your winnings as a good will gesture!!!

:confused:
 
Top