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Slots representing card games

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by gerilege, Feb 14, 2007.

    Feb 14, 2007
  1. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    I hope this thread fits to this topic.

    I recently played with a Joker Poker game in a pub. I put in ~10 USD, and took a look on the below pay table (was only available after putting in some money into the machine).

    Jacks or Better: 1
    Two pair: 3
    3 of a kind: 5
    Straight: 6
    Flush: 8
    Full: 12
    4 of a kind: 25
    Straight Flush: 100
    5 of a Kind: ??? not in the pay table
    Royal Flush: Jackpot

    I immediately realized that this could not be a fair game with the above pay table. And indeed, I played ~nickels, and I got 4 3 of a kind in a raw, then nothing for 12 hands, and so on.

    So I would like to ask you to share with me your experience, just like a survey:

    A) Where are you from, or what country are you referring to (if not described in your profile)? If you wouldn't like to answer this, please skip.
    B) Are such machines allowed in your country?
    C) How machines which representing card games are regulated in your country (if there's any such regulation)?
    D) Anything else you would like to add.

    Thanks in advance.

    Background story. In my country, gambling mostly means pub fruit machines and regular slots, state lottery, and such games. The majority of fruit machines and regular slots are so called "category 1", which means that they have a variable payout percentage, and the machine gives back the set percentage of the money that was previously put in, in the long run. (There's a counter, and if 100 went in, and 80 out, and the payout rate is 90%, then you will have a better chance to win, than if 80 went in, and 100 went out, so the game is not random.) Unfortunately these games seem to be somehow adjustable by the machine owner, and sometimes they set the payout to ridiculously low, just like 40-50 percent or less. When they hear rumors about a likely control, they set the percentage back to the minimum acceptable (90%). Especially in the countryside, these machines take a huge amount of money from poor, uneducated people, and the market is owned by at least shaky firms, sometimes criminals.

    In brick&mortar and major electronic casinos there are mostly "category 2" machines, which should not use the "counter" technique, and they have to be completely random.

    But - as the above video poker example shows - sometimes there are machines, which are "category 1" in practice, although their representation suggests that they are "category 2". I started to fight against those machines (and also against category 1 overall), and I contacted the local gambling control authority several times, but reached no advance yet. So I would need examples from around the world, to strengthen my position.

    Thanks again.
  2. Feb 14, 2007
  3. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    I think you can safely assume that it's a Category 1 machine because that is what is permitted by your government.

    In the UK, it is the same if you are in an arcade. If you're in a casino, it depends. Holland too - in an arcade, it's a fixed-odds machine - in the casino, it's what you've described as Category 2.
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 14, 2007
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    STILL At Leisure
    United Kingdom

    I saw one of these last year here in the UK. Definately NOT a genuine Video Poker machine.
    I suspect you have the machines exported from our UK "Fruit Machine" manufacturers. (They state they export to many European countries).

    As for Fruit Machines, don't fight them, SCREW THEM:D

    If enough players got as well educated as some UK players, the machines won't be around too long. I am shocked to hear they have to be 90%, ours are nearer 72%, and they still get screwed on a regular basis.

    Just possibly, your machines are clones of the UK games, and may have similar software (with the bugs that allow for the screwing of the games).

    As for your "C", they are regulated the same as Fruit Machines, thus no requirement for a "pretend" VP machine to offer random cards. We also have Blackjack and Roulette "Fruit Machines", usually bundled into a gaming console. The giveaway is that the jackpot is the same as for Fruit Machines, which is a set maximum.
    Oddly enough, our regulators are concerned about the max jackpot, but rather less concerned about price per play and payout percentage.
    Currently, they are allowing a max of 35 and 50p per play, from 25 and 35p earlier. (Most games used 30p for simplicity).

    When the rules were first liberalised, and 20p play was granted, the industry claimed this would allow higher percentage payouts than the then current 72% to 78%. Now, the "cheating b******s" have got their massive limit increases, but still offer around 70% hoping the new generation of players do not notice.
    1 person likes this.

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