Slotland Fraudulent "Video Poker" Games

[casinogossip]

I havent watched this issue close enough I had erroneously assumed that it was headed to resolution late last year. It is now clear to me that the issue has not been resolved and that the necessary measures to put an end to the predicament have not been taken.

As such we are in the process of removing any and all referral links to Slotland and would request that our colleagues do the same.

 

[caruso]

That's a commendably honourable stance to take, CG - particularly when you look at the Slotland affiliate programme on offer, and, presumably, the dollars you'll be turning your back on:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Slotland pay their affiliates 25% OF DEPOSITS. Is this a record?

For every $100 a player deposits, Slotland hands over $25 straight away.

This tells you the kind of money-farm this is.

Anyway, kudos to the SL rep for bumping this evil-titled thread back from the wasteland, although I'm also confused by his suggestion that there was any player-disagreement on show - I see blanket consensus.

 

[chalupa]

Are you still with us SlotMarty?

(5 weeks later, no change that I can see.)

 

[jamiester]

from "gambling commission" requirements page

From the Gambling Commission

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Qualifications Summary

The 10 abiding factors of the Gambling Commission Standards which monitor randomness, fairness and ability and guarantee to pay winners are listed below.

1. Consistent random mathematical testing of software pass rate.
2. Posted rules of each casino member are accurately followed.
3. Each free trial version of software must offer the same rules and odds of paid version.
4. Payout odds and percentages must be true at all times.
5. Game device simulations (cards or dice) must statistically react exactly like real world version of device.
6. Wagers must be honored despite power failures or player interruptions.
7. Ample cash reserves must be sustained in order to pay winners.
8. Player disputes must be addressed quickly and accurately.
9. Player transaction logs will be thoroughly maintained.
10. Casino representatives must be available to discuss player account activity.

I don't know if anybody takes the Gambling Commission seriously (it looks like they haven't updated their homepage since 2000) but this is the "independant organization" which Slotland claims validates the fair gaming credentials. It seems to me that Slotland violates at least rule 5 on its JOB, SpaceJack and other card games. Why would the Gambling Commission continue to certify them if they clearly are in violation of ones it parameters? Or is that a nieve question? I am new to here and have been losing what I consider to be an excessive amount on slots at Slotland. I am in the middle of an inquiry with them so I won't go into that too much yet. I like Slots despite the generally horrible returns. I'm willing to play at 93 or 95% but not 85%.

 

[KasinoKing]

I like Slots despite the generally horrible returns. I'm willing to play at 93 or 95% but not 85%.

Welcome to the forum! Hope you stick around.

If you like slots, why don't you play at one of the Meister's reputable sites - a good MG for example?
Slotland has always struck me as 'a bit dodgy' at best!
I have successfully cleared several 100%+ "slots only" bonuses at MG's, and come out on top!

Good luck, have fun and be careful!

 

[Casinomeister]

...I don't know if anybody takes the Gambling Commission seriously ...

Unfortunately it's merely a portal that doesn't do too much. If it were a real "Gambling Commission" then they would have more of a pressence at some of the industry events that are held world wide. I've been hitting up just about every event that matters for the past five years, and I've never met these guys. I'm not saying that they haven't helped players in dire straights; I'm just saying they are not a commission that regualtes anything.

In the early days of online gambling, this website was marketed as a commission and a lot of casinos bought off on them being some regulatory entity. But they are not. It's just some guys running a portal.

Unfortunately Slotland (and a number of others) thought that the GC's logos looked cool and put them up. And they still are there.

As for the Video Poker at Slotland, it's a slot machine and this should be made clear in their t&c's. They are members of the forum so perhaps they can explain this as well.

 

[thelawnet]

Do these guys rig their games totally? Or is it just the jackpot?

The $5 Jacks or Better pays $4,000 for a $5 bet for a Royal Flush. This is a full pay 9/6 game, which has a casino edge of 0.46%. Does this count as a jackpot, which is rigged.

Or is the game fair if you are not playing the $10 needed to get the jackpot?

 

[paul02085]

The cards are not random like a VP machine. This is a slot machine so its set to payout a much lower % than a 9/6 JOB VP machine. Dont be fooled.

 

[dominique]

Slotland games are not rigged. People win the jackpot all the time.

The discussion here was about all the games being slots. There is a game that looks like video poker that operates like a slot, with the same probabilities as slots. There is also a game that looks like an odd version of BJ that is a slot.

All the games at Slotland are slots. The slots work just fine.

If you are playing at Slotland, you are playing slots. Period. And they pay out just fine.

 

[Vesuvio]

All the games at Slotland are slots.

That's the problem, though. Slotland refuse to state that the game's a slot and continue to mislead players into thinking it's video poker. They've also never attempted to explain how you can have random cards and a non-random frequency of royal flushes. Here are a few excerpts from an e-mail discussion I had with them recently (note Robert calls it both a slot and video poker):

This is Robert, the Supervisor of Slotland Customer Service. In our opinion, we provide our players with all sufficient informations about our games. There is no need to change the game descriptions again. Our JacksOrBetter game is a variety of video poker with a possibility to hit the progressive Jackpot. We do not hide, that the probability of the Jackpot is not natural. We are fair and honest company.

The cards are dealt randomly, but only the probability of hitting the Jackpot is not natural. Our JacksOrBetter game has payback of 98% as it is stated on the slot machine.

All the necessary information about our games are on our site already. To be honest, we have had really only few complaints about the possibility of hitting the Jackpot on our video poker game.

So they'll just continue cheating players into thinking they offer VP. In a better world they'd be shunned by all decent affiliates, but unfortunately they offer one of the best deals around (paying a large cut of the deposit rather than losses - wonder how they can afford that? ), so they're not going to disappear so easily.

 

[GrandMaster]

The cards are dealt randomly, but only the probability of hitting the Jackpot is not natural. Our JacksOrBetter game has payback of 98% as it is stated on the slot machine.

It is impossible only to change the probability of getting a royal flush. They are also forgetting that video poker also involves strategy, and without knowing the exact probabilities, the player cannot play optimal strategy. Until they give a full explanation, I will recommend that everybody avoid this game.

 

[thelawnet]

Slotland games are not rigged. People win the jackpot all the time.

The discussion here was about all the games being slots. There is a game that looks like video poker that operates like a slot, with the same probabilities as slots. There is also a game that looks like an odd version of BJ that is a slot.

All the games at Slotland are slots. The slots work just fine.

If you are playing at Slotland, you are playing slots. Period.

Well that's a very big statement, and it's certainly not stated on their site.

If it's true, they are deceiving a good number of players, as they certainly describe their games as Video Poker, not as slots.

At

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it says

THE VIDEO POKER GAME.

That's right, video poker, not slots.

In not what place on that page is their the word slot.

If this is a pull tab or slot, they are not saying that.

On the page linked from there, it says

Please note that all Slotland games share the same mechanism which determines the jackpot win. Therefore, the probability of hitting the jackpot combination on JacksOrBetter is not natural but controlled by this shared random mechanism in the same way as slot machines' wins.

And on their FAQ they state

We offer six different slot machines and three stylish card games at the moment.

So they have six SLOTS, and three card games, which by implication are NOT slots.

In addition to our slot machines, we offer four great card games:

I assume you are an affiliate of these people, and perhaps have more information, but their site describes these games as Video Poker, not slots, with the only difference being that the jackpot payout does not pay according to true probability.

If there is more to it than that, then they are blatantly cheating and deceiving their players.

The Jacks or Better page above shows payouts as follows:

$0.50/$1 9/6, 250 coin RF
$3 9/6, 333 coin RF
$5 9/6 800 coin RF
$10 9/6 jackpot RF

For the 800 coin game, the return is around 99.54% with perfect strategy. This is a profitable game for a casino, as people don't play perfect strategy. With full pay JoB, the RF represents 1.98% of the overall return.

However, you are suggesting that there is more to it than they describe on the site, and the non-jackpot games are also slots. If this is the case they are ripping people are off.

This is important to know, as their $5 game is described as a fair game of video poker.

I am not interested in the silly blackjack game, as the eyecatching 2-1 for blackjacks is more than offset by the fact there is no splitting allowed, and if you double or hit you must do so to all three hands at once. This game already has a large house edge without any further rigging required.

But if the video poker is a slot, and the return of anything other than the Royal Flush on the $10 game does not represent a fair deck of cards, then they are cheating.

 

[caruso]

In a better world they'd be shunned by all decent affiliates, but unfortunately they offer one of the best deals around (paying a large cut of the deposit rather than losses - wonder how they can afford that? ), so they're not going to disappear so easily.

Exactly - I think I mentioned that somewhere. Slotland has such high affiliate exposure for just that reason - one quarter cut of all deposits. Ain't too many affiliates gonna drop them any time soon (and kudos to Bryan for taking the lead in that department).

So they have six SLOTS, and three card games, which by implication are NOT slots.

This isn't new, it's been hashed out time and time again. If you're looking for change, you're wasting your time. There is absolutely no reason for Slotland to change anything - they and their affy partners are creaming it. All that can be done is remind those few who read the boards about the truth of the scam, and keep this thread alive and visible.

 

[nafanny29]

It is impossible only to change the probability of getting a royal flush. They are also forgetting that video poker also involves strategy, and without knowing the exact probabilities, the player cannot play optimal strategy. Until they give a full explanation, I will recommend that everybody avoid this game.

I supose if was truely "random" apart from the royal flush hit, they could deal a 2nd random card if the royal card was selected by the RNG. But as you correctly say this would affect strategy in loads of situations.

Id bet a dollar it is totally un-random in the first place anyway

 

[dominique]

Geez guys, how many times do we ascertain this?

Slotland offers slots only.

All their games are based on the same mechanism - a slot mechanism.

All their games also share one jackpot, which pays out very frequently.

Slotland is for slots only. You can play all kinds of odd slots with interesting features, including an odd BJ like slot and a videopoker like slot.

Slotland is one of the very few gaming sites that operate on HTML, which is the only type software many browsers can use. It looks slow and heavy handed to most of us, it is a life saver to many others.

But Slotland is for slots, period.

 

[thelawnet]

Geez guys, how many times do we ascertain this?

As many times as it takes for them to post the truth on their website.

Slotland offers slots only.

All their games are based on the same mechanism - a slot mechanism.

That's not what they say on their website. They say they have slots PLUS card games.

They do not say that their card games are based on a slot mechanism. They do say that the jackpot is based on a slot mechanism, and I can accept this as a valid business decision, as you can't offer $100k jackpots without this.

But this is very different from the whole game being based on a slot mechanism (i.e. not reflecting the actual odds of a given card being dealt). In particular, the $5 game appears to offer 99.54% payout. If this is not the case they are wilfully deceiving their players.

Slotland is for slots only. You can play all kinds of odd slots with interesting features, including an odd BJ like slot and a videopoker like slot.

Slotland is one of the very few gaming sites that operate on HTML, which is the only type software many browsers can use. It looks slow and heavy handed to most of us, it is a life saver to many others.

But Slotland is for slots, period.

Ok.

So why do they repeatedly talk about slots AND video poker, rather than talking about a jacks or better SLOT?

There are two possible scenarios here:

one, they do indeed offer fair video poker games, except when you play the $10 games, when the royal flush payout does not truly reflect the odds. This would be acceptable and accords with what they describe on their site.

or

two, as you say, their video poker games are in fact slots, and all hands do not pay according to true probability. If this is the case they are wilfully deceiving players, as they simply do not state this on their website, as you suggest that games are based on a 'slot mechanism', and I can't see how in good conscience you can endorse them.

 

[dominique]

You may try your luck at the Jacks Or Better, the game based on the most classic video poker ever. Our pay table for this game is very generous - you do not need to place a maximum bet to get a bonus pay out on the Royal Flush although a maximum bet with a Royal Flush WILL win the jackpot!

(Jacks or Better: Minimum bet = $0.50; maximum bet = $10.00)


Striking Sevens machine is similar to popular Deuces Wild video poker. In this game Sevens are WILD and replace any other card to allow you to make the best possible poker hand. All winning hands are offered the chance to DOUBLE the win. If you play your hand right, you can strike it rich with this great game!

(Striking7s: Minimum bet = $0.50; maximum bet = $10.00)


For a little more excitement and to triple your chance for the BIG win, enjoy exciting triple play action at the WildHeart based on Double Joker video poker machine. It may seem like a jungle out there, but you can be King of the Jungle with one good deal!

(Wild Heart: Minimum bet = $0.25; maximum bet = $15.00)


Sophisticated gamblers will love the SpaceJack which is a video variation of the most popular table game of all times, Blackjack. Blackjack pays 3 to 1 to the player, even when the dealer has blackjack! Three blackjacks with bets placed on all 3 wins the progressive jackpot!

(Space Jack: Minimum bet = $1.00; maximum bet = $60.00)

The slots are based on these games and certain combinations pay the progressive jackpot.

 

[Vesuvio]

The slots are based on these games and certain combinations pay the progressive jackpot.

There you go again - you use the word "slots", but they don't (one game of video poker can be based on another, after all). You missed out the line above the descriptions:

In addition to our slot machines, we offer four great card games

You say their games work like slots, but they're only willing to admit that "with card games, the probability of hitting the jackpot combination is not natural", implying that apart from the jackpot the games play naturally, logically impossible as that is.

It's a nice affiliate program, but you can't possibly support them in good faith while they're deliberately misleading their players. Though to give you some credit, I notice that on your site you've actually changed their text - do you have approval for the final line added on to the descriptions, or is it your interpretation? e.g.

You may try your luck at the Jacks Or Better, the game based on the most classic video poker ever. Our pay table for this game is very generous - you do not need to place a maximum bet to get a bonus pay out on the Royal Flush although a maximum bet with a Royal Flush WILL win the jackpot! The mechanism behind Slotland card games is the same as slots.

Perhaps if that found its way back to their site it'd be approaching acceptability, though it'd seem easier to abandon the term "card games" if the "card games" are "slots".

 

[jamiester]

just a note...

I was told by Robert that about 5% of the 98% return is dedicated to the progressive jackpot. So, for people who don't hit the jackpot, they can expect about a 93% return on all the games (He actually said players average 92 -94%).
I should also note that Slotland will include the bonuses they give you (signup, 10% after each $1000) as part of your WINNINGS from slot play. The only reason they would do such a thing is to try to trick players into thinking that they are experiencing a greater return than they actually are. Robert denies it, but I feel they include these bonuses as part of their advertised 98% payout. (Which they say is certified, but I have yet to find someone who will claim to have certified it).

 

[thelawnet]

I was told by Robert that about 5% of the 98% return is dedicated to the progressive jackpot. So, for people who don't hit the jackpot, they can expect about a 93% return on all the games (He actually said players average 92 -94%).
I should also note that Slotland will include the bonuses they give you (signup, 10% after each $1000) as part of your WINNINGS from slot play. The only reason they would do such a thing is to try to trick players into thinking that they are experiencing a greater return than they actually are. Robert denies it, but I feel they include these bonuses as part of their advertised 98% payout. (Which they say is certified, but I have yet to find someone who will claim to have certified it).

If this is true then they are blatantly cheating and deciving their players.

The Video Poker games should return around 98% EXCLUDING the royal flush, and more than this when you count the royal flush.

If the game is indeed rigged in other ways, they are still deliberately setting out to deceive.

There is nothing wrong with offering slots - Microgaming do it, Cryptologic do it, etc. - but passing off a slot as a video poker game, albeit one where the Royal Flush does not pay naturally, when it is in fact not video poker at all is cheating.

If they were no trying to cheat and mislead people who would not otherwise play their, why would they not simply say 'Our Jacks or Better SLOT'. It's really simple to do, and no-one would complain....

Basically if you run a slots-only casino, it is impossible to be accused of cheating, as you can make your slots pay however you like.

If they are not playing fair video poker, they are no different from the other cheating rigged casinos & software providers and should be treated as rogues accordingly.

 

[trade]

rigged?

I have a particular hard spot in my heart for slotland. I had some huge issues with them in the past and cancelled my account last year. There were at least 2 or 3 times when I e-mailed them with complaints of how I had been misled (particularily about Jacks or better randomness as a POKER CARD game, as opposed to a SLOT game) or the results of my play- to which I received the responses already mentioned in this thread re. fairness. I can only surmise in an effort to keep me as a player, I received a bonus a couple of times where once I began playing, I just couldn't lose ("hush money"??)... until a certain point where everything went south. I cashed out once I realized (sometimes after several days of great winning play like I never had experienced) I was on the lose cycle. When I pointed this out to them, i.e. how odd that I should have won on such bonuses, I was basically accused of not being capable of graciousness or might just be paranoid. I do believe slotland can manipulate their "randomness", even on an individual basis. I would love to see a full audit of their operation. Having customer service reps who are really really nice isn't a good reason to keep depositing but God bless you if you do.

 

[clawback]

The sites been down now for 3 days apparently with server problems.

Anyone have more info regarding slotties problems.