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Slot variance hit me pretty hard... or did it?

Discussion in 'Quit Gambling' started by Slotsnooby, Aug 4, 2018.

    Aug 4, 2018
  1. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Hello to all. I started to play slots about 1 and half months ago (after watching casino streamers and read about the casino bonuses and how they work) and I have a question about the variance which comes along with slots. Since mid of June 2018 I have made total of 62 (amounts between 25-200 euro) deposits to different Casinos with 100% or better bonus. I play mainly with 1 euro bet, sometimes with 0,5-0,8 euro bet, sometimes with 2 euro bet. I'd say 95 % of my play has been with 1 euro bet. I have not been able to complete single one of my wagers – I came closest with 25 euro (+25 bonus money) deposit when wagering was done about 70 %, but I blew it in the end. Most of the time I lose everything from the getgo or double up my bankroll and then slowly lose it all with 10 % or so wagering done. Sometimes I reach the 30-40 % mark, but everytime I lose it all in the end. I play mainly high variance slots (same as most casino streamers, slots like Immortal Romance, Reactoonz, Moon Princess, Bonanza, Danger High Voltage etc. altho I do try different games constantly). All in all I have deposited now a bit over 4000 euros of my savings and I've had zero cashouts. If we count the bonus money I have played almost 10 000 euros with zero returns. I have had some big hits tho, most notably :

    3800 x (!) with Myster Joker 6000 (0,1 euro bet, freespins) and same session Montezuma 900 x with 0,9 euro bet – couldn't complete the wager of that mega hit tho.

    800 x Reactoonz with 1 euro bet. 300 x Captain Venture with 2 euro bet. Needless to say that I never saw those moneys since I couldn't complete the wager in either cases. :)

    I have run out of money (no worries – I have enough for the rent and food) and next time I could deposit is next month when my next salary arrives. My question is: can this run continue with another 50+ deposits? And also – are my losses just pure bad luck or is there some skill element in slots that I just don´t know about? Am I even very unlucky – is this normal? I get that in the long run everyone loses with slots, but I did expect at least something back – to keep playing fun. At this point I am totally miserable and disappointed with my luck/slot variance. If these kinds of swings are normal to the ”spirit of the game” I think it would be better for me to just take that ~4000 euro loss as a lesson and completely forget the slots since they are starting to affect my life at this point → wagering a bonus has become almost like some mythical thing that I just have to be able to complete. The last 10 or so deposits has been me just clicking my mouse rapidly and not even looking what wins I get (if I get any :p) and just waiting my balance to run out before the wagering is done – like it always does. I don't think this is a very good mentality to approach the game, but maybe some of your comments may shed some light how I should think/what to expect when/if I ever make a new deposit.
     
    Mouche12 and lotusch like this.
  2. Aug 4, 2018
  3. zap987

    zap987 Meister Member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    Sweden
    1. Definitely sounds like a streak of bad luck, but any slot is very high variance so it's pretty normal. Still, you could go another 50 deposits, the games don't have any memory of previous results.
    2. You've had the big hits, you should have been able to cash out. 800x on Reactoonz should be an easy cashout, if it was a 25+25 with something like 2k wager it's pretty much impossible to lose it all, especially if you swap to lower variance games after the big hit. However if it was a bigger deposit then you were just not betting high enough to start with, you need to adjust your bet to the wager so that a really big hit like that gives you enough balance.

    To beat bonuses you need to take risks, you need to bust out often because every time you bust out you complete less wagering and wagering is the only way the casino make their bonus money back.
     
  4. Aug 4, 2018
  5. lotusch

    lotusch Megaways Slots, as useless as salt in your coffee webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Marketing Assistant
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Hey, welcome to the forum :)

    I am not the best person to answer your questions as I am an avid bonus avoider.
    I have not the skills and know how how to make them into real cash. :)
    However there are some decent people here that have a lot of experience playing with bonuses.

    I think it has to do a lot what kind of a bonus it is, what the wagering requirements are and how much wagering slots contribute to the wagering requirement.

    I personally play with my own cash, if I win I win and cash out at any time I want.
    A bonus is designed to give you some more playtime at a casino and are mostly set in favor of the casino as your winnings are locked until you make the 100% WR.
    Too much hassle for me.

    Played a few times with a bonus and also never made the wagering, so for me it is wasted money.

    Look out for Chopleys Thread HERE as there are some very good videos he made explaining how he figured out a bonus works and can / could be beaten.
    The topic goes some years back but is still very alive. It might help you out a bit in regards to questions you might have.

    And last but not least,just a personal advice,stop watching streamers..A lot are fake, playing with casino money to rake players in and also play with stakes that are very unhealthy for most regular Joe's like us. ;)
     
  6. Aug 4, 2018
  7. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    The two posters above have given you some solid advice tho start with, and if you just use the forum's search-bar you'll find countless threads on all bonus related topic..there's even a whole bonus section here: Bonuses

    To add to Lotusch's post: streamers are a mixed blessing to the industry -good for operators and providers, giving them more exposure, very bad for the promotion of responsible and smart gambling..
    We have a few good guys here, and there was the Bandit, funnily enough one of the very few streamers who actually made his viewers aware of the many dangers of slotting, and taking high risks, that got banned from youtube...the bulk of them are not very knowledgeable, and just push the use of Bonuses through their channels, and despite the obligatory links and logo's to responsible gambling, give a bad example overall. That's my personal opinion...

    From your post i would say: start betting lower, get to know the slots at your own pace, read as much as you can here on the forum, and i'm sure you'll soon find yourself much wiser. And if you take bonuses, take them on small deposits, and take them in Casino's that are accredited here!

    The best bonuses are the ones that can be used as a back up, meaning that you play with your own cash first, and if you hit something nice whilst still on your cash, you can cash out your cash+ winnings, and forfeit the bonus :)

    That should get you started, but i'm sure there will be some more useful answers in this thread you opened...
     
    mack341, Slotsnooby, lotusch and 2 others like this.
  8. Aug 4, 2018
  9. Supababe

    Supababe Opinions Meister! MM

    Occupation:
    Mum, wife, daughter, pet owner and Primary Teacher
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
    It seems you did your research first and probably know this but read each casinos bonus terms and conditions carefully.

    What is the wagering for the bonus?
    Is it calculated just with the bonus amount or with deposit and bonus together?
    What games do NOT contribute 100% to wagering? Games like immortal romance are often on the list so you might be playing but not reducing the amount left to wager.

    Personally, I only clear wagering when I am patient and play slow and steady (eg 0.40 bets mainly.
    If the balance is disappearing fast the temptation is to bet up (thinking a win is certainly due) but I find reducing to minimum bet for 50-100 spins sometimes throws you a bigger win (do the experts here call it a compensation bet?)

    I mostly head to places without a bonus or with a small bonus if wagering is only x1.

    Did you check in at Videoslots? Our firm fave here at CM?
     
    Slotsnooby likes this.
  10. Aug 4, 2018
  11. Gaz237

    Gaz237 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    chelmsford UK
    To have lost all your savings and find its affecting your life after less than 2 months. I think you seriously need to do what you said above and just take the hit as a short sharp shock.

    Your not going to win your losses back by ploughing more money in. As pointed out above, the streamers are normally playing with fake money, so they are not risking anything. As you have found out, your risk was real and have lost all the money you saved up.

    It's very easy to get on the slippery slope of gambling and to only exist from pay check to pay check, with nothing in between, as you have lost all your wages again. Once you hit that stage, which you seem to have already, as you have only stopped because you have run out of money, rather than self control. You need to get off the slope, as it can only go downhill from here.

    Remember if it's affecting you now. It won't be long before it starts affecting those around you family/relationships/work ect.
     
  12. Aug 4, 2018
  13. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Thank you guys for the replies, I try to go thru them all.

    I have played so much this summer that I cannot remember exact wager amounts on those big hits, but I am certain that those were bigger ones, where I was depositing 100e to 200e and getting 100 % bonus which would mean bigger wager (and the wager could have been 35 x deposit + bonus). After the initial big hit, which came a couple of times, games usually went to super cold mode. But truth to be told, I just continued to play mostly same games, just throwing in some low variance games randomly and less often. Wager on on that 3800 x hit, which gave me 380 euros from freespins, was something like close to 20 000 euros. I hit the big Montezuma close after so I thought "this time I will play through the wager and get a nice win from a freespin!". But what happened was I raised the bet to 2 euros when my balance was over 1000 euros, games ate everything so fast, I remember being down to 500 euros so fast and there after it was only downhill, I didn't even come close to complete the massive wagering. :D
     
    incrediblestuff likes this.
  14. Aug 4, 2018
  15. goatwack

    goatwack Calendar Time for Buddy CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Sounds more like an existence than life, going month-to-month thinking one HAS to deposit (got the t-shirt).

    Savings gone and just covering the basics- won't be long before that starts to get affected too

    Seems a bit precarious, I'd look more into adopting some self- discipline and cutting the slots play right down instead of the neverending loop of chasing bonuses and financial depletion that is clearly making that transition into your personal life!
     
  16. Aug 4, 2018
  17. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Thanks I will check the thread out later, especially the newer replies. I do know that nowadays one cannot beat slots in the long run, not even with the bonuses, but I was not expecting to lose 62 deposits in a row either. :D Your last advice I will take very seriously and in fact came to that same conclusion a couple of days earlier. I usually watched/interacted with "low roller streamers" (who played with max 5 euro bet, usually with 1-2 euros) and since I played mostly with the same kind of bet, watching them to win made me want to do the same - even if I wasn't planning to make a deposit for that day. I have been always like this: when I discover something interesting, I go pretty much all in with it for a while, this has happened to me when I watch streamers play some interesting computer game for example - I may play the same game for several hundred hours for the next two months and kinda "live with it" thru Twitch. The problem finding/getting interested about slots was of course that it isn't as cheap of a hobby as computer games are and I didn't take that into consideration seriously enough.
     
  18. Aug 4, 2018
  19. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Yes I did the research before and during and I am always aware of bonus conditions - so "not been able to beat the wager" was definately not because of games which reduced the wager. I played Immortal Romance when it was contributing 100 % to the wager amount, when it was contributing less I skipped it. Never hit anything from it tho. :p

    Wager amount was usually 40 x bonus or 45 x bonus or 35 x bonus + deposit, I cannot remember them all, but akin to that was always the case.

    Videoslots is actually one of the Casinos I have yet to make a deposit, but I always used reputable Casinos to make my accounts. It still amazes me that I had time to make a new account for total of 51 casinos and use their bonuses and reload bonuses 62 times in less than two months. :D
     
  20. Aug 4, 2018
  21. sufferinsilence

    sufferinsilence Full Member

    Location:
    Belgium
    Taking on 100% (sticky) match bonuses with a big deposit upto €200 is rarely going to work out! Only if the WR is 10 to 20x the bonus money and you start wagering right away with your own money you might have a fighting chance without getting a stream of medium to big hits throughout the whole wagering. Or put Starburst on 20 cents and have it going for the whole wager, you'll probably have atleast your deposit back ;) But all joking aside, don't take a sticky bonus so when you have a big hit on your own money you can take atleast your deposit out, although I'd say if it's a really big hit go for a 75% cashout. The bonus will be dropped but you can try and get a big hit again on the winnings!

    Bonuses that you should definitely take are no-deposit bonuses, those are fun and if you beat them it's :cheers:

    I watch alot of streamers and you simply shouldn't mimic their style: the bigger ones have unlimited 100% (or even bigger) bonuses waiting for them and a bankroll that is almost equally unlimited so they can keep on trying to get a huge hit and make the wager to get their initial deposits back or even make a profit. That and their affilliation revenue will keep them afloat.

    For now you should atleast take a time out! 4k is alot of money gone down the drain and chasing to get it back will only get you into more trouble :(
     
  22. Aug 4, 2018
  23. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Thank you for your thoughful post and yes, in the hindsight I feel that slots have robbed me the last few weeks of my life. Of course it isn't the fault of slots since I did this to myself, and now with a couple of days of clear head, I can see that I was developing a problem and with a very rapid pace. And it is true that I stopped only because I lost everything I have saved - I didn't want to admit it, I didn't want to think it will happen, but it did. And watching casino streamers pulled me back in even if I didn't want to make another deposit. It was my understanding that the streamers that I personally watched, got their slot money through their affiliate links so they were actually playing with their own money (maybe - who knows in the end) and their deposits were not much bigger than mine so it made everything more realistic and watching them to make a cashout at least sometimes made me want to do the same. But of course it didn't happen that way in my case.

    My plan now is not to watch any slot streamer anymore because I know I want to make a deposit if they are winning and I can't absolutely afford that right now. I am hoping a month long break from the streams and games will clear my head even more and can see on September do I even want to continue with the slots ever again.
     
    Gaz237, incrediblestuff and mack341 like this.
  24. Aug 4, 2018
  25. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Yes I think you hit the nail there - I watched a lot of low roller streamers who got tens of 100 % bonuses waiting for their 200 - 300 euro deposits in the same Casino and their money coming from affilition links (they were not "big" but had at least 200-300 viewers and made clearly enough in a month to play several hours per day, some of them were actually "in a good run mode" I guess since they actually made frequent cashouts CLEARLY with less spins that I did altogether). This is the exact style I tried to mimic and thought I had it in control, "I just deposit a bit less and a lot infrequent, and eventually I hit at least 2000 euro cash out and I can do this as a long-term hobby, one deposit per week, maybe more when I actually cashout, plaplaplaa". It just didn't work out that way in my case and I am not sure if it ever will. And yes, 4k is a huge sum of money for me and there is also a lot of lost time. At this point I still feel that my luck has to turn at some point, but god knows when, by then I might have blowed another 4k in - which I guess is a very real possibility.
     
  26. Aug 4, 2018
  27. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    That 4K is lost and gone forever. Accept that, chasing losses is the surest way to ruin.

    You definitely need a break. You are not enjoying your play. Casinos make money, players don't. Same as going out to the bar for the evening, it's money you spend to entertain yourself.

    I don't know your income level, but I think to stop gambling until you have replenished your savings would be wise.

    If at that point you would like to try again, budget it out of your entertainment part of your income.

    Many bonuses are just plain awful. 30x bonus funds wagering I think might even be a disadvantage, but not much of one, a fair enough trade off for extended playtime IMO. Bonuses better than that are usually offered as a reward to loyal players, not new sign-ups.

    I actually think it's better to concentrate your loyalty on a few casinos. Videoslots offers very few deposit bonuses, instead offering rewards, races and cashback and free tournaments to reward their players instead.

    It is hard to start betting lower, when you've been rolling rather high, but I think that should be the case for you.
     
  28. Aug 4, 2018
  29. pinnit2014

    pinnit2014 Senior Member MM PABinit

    Occupation:
    Work with figures, other audit-y things
    Location:
    Glasgow
    I know it’s a cliche and maybe I’m being selective with memories but anytime iv loaded my casino account with money in an attempt to make a decent withdrawal, it’s ended in abject misery.

    Some of my biggest wins have been sub 50 quid deposits and whilst I’m going something else : eg. DOA (old) watching football not even knowing I had a double wildline before the extra 5 spins, a 10k win when I stayed at home and my mum was asking what did I want for dinner! Etc etc.

    U start chasing you’re in for a world of pain - been there, got the overdraft charges to show for it.

    Take a break, get some perspective and if you want to come back just deposit with a view for a bit of bonus feature fun - you may be surprised at the cash out if you do
     
  30. Aug 4, 2018
  31. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    These are very good advices. You have to understand that at least the last 4 weeks slots, casino streams and that "mythical wager clearing" has been constantly on my mind and when I finally stopped watching streams a couple of days ago and took a good look what I have done, these advices make even more sense. It is just so hard to think clearly when you are occupied in this world constantly. My income level is not amazing, but it is enough for me to live rather comfortable life and saving everything back that I lost is prolly the best thing to do right now (alongside cutting off the casino streams completely) - to "get even" that way. That will take pretty much the rest of the year, so maybe I will reconsider slots not on September, but in 2019 the next time. :)
     
  32. Aug 4, 2018
  33. EkJR

    EkJR Full Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Simple answers. Avoid watching online streamers as 90% of the time they are playing wins up. If you actually watch some of their full streams you will see they do lose a lot as well. It's the small "best Of clips that you need to avoid. I can see how people would think it's easy to win, it really isn't. It's total and utter luck at times and you will never win in the end if you play all the time.

    It's about withdrawing when you hit the big wins and testing slots over maybe 50 spins to probe for wins.

    The bonuses are a hindrance a lot of the time and just make you play more and more. I have stopped taking them completely. My advice to you would be to set limits and play with real cash only.
     
  34. Aug 4, 2018
  35. Slotsnooby

    Slotsnooby Newbie member

    Location:
    Finland
    Yes I do know that especially on youtube streamers tend to make only "big win compilations" and one gets totally disordered view what the reality is. I have watched at this point countless of hours pure Twitch realtime casino streams, and yes, I know they lose a lot, but it might be that all the streamers I watched were on the better side of the variance since eventho they blundered some deposits, sometimes 2-3 in row, at some point they got ENOUGH back. Like for 4 deposits they got 1 moderate to big one back - they got their bonus money and many times their deposit even close to 10 x back. I know they will lose in the long run, but they still got enough back to keep the streams/gaming interesting. And remember, I watched only low roller steamers (who played 90 % time with 1 to 2 euro bet) so it made everything to seem possible and pretty realistic. So no, I wasn't naive enough to think that I will hit 500 x, 800 x, 1200 x wins all the time. I was naive enough to think that maybe every 10 deposit I make at least one back. Well, to me it took 62 deposits and I still didn't get anything back. :)
     
  36. Aug 4, 2018
  37. vnk207

    vnk207 Full Member

    Occupation:
    frontend dev
    Location:
    Nederland
    I didnt read all, but my advice dont use bonuses on deposit, with the wagering you put up a extra fence to take a nice winning.

    edit note: just saw EkJR's post :)
     
  38. Aug 4, 2018
  39. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I do enjoy the challenge of a bonus from time to time, and some of my bigger wins came from sessions that were already winning sessions because I had a bonus I had to continue to play with.

    With new UKGC rules, casinos must not tie a player's real funds into completing wagering, and many bonus offers have changed.

    Like the OP, I'm not in UK, but there are some casinos... 32Red springs to mind... that have a "fair play" system now they apply across the board, regardless of if you are in UK or not.

    Slotsnooby, I don't know how long it will take you to save back up, but Xmas is coming. Spend some more time reading here, where there is not just someone profiting off the advice they are giving you. Go read the Quit Gambling section.

    Also, being part of the CM community, we have some offers and competitions just for members. They have helped supplement my gaming budget over the years.

    I think you need a break -- big time -- to get your head clear and regroup.

    Quit watching the slot streamers. BTW, $1 a spin is not low rolling. 9 or 15 cents is low rolling. I got less than 2 hours of play today on a $50 deposit on 20 cent spins, and that was with a few modest hits, or I would get less. I totally get the "dog with a bone" can't let go it stuff, I'd probably still be chasing a DOA wildline if NetEnt had not pulled out of Canada. And I am confident that I had at least 3x the bets you should expect one in, we are talking many years here.

    You can pull out of circling the drain, while there is still plenty of water in the tub. I'm rooting for you, not to win with different strategies, but to get back on track and not chase your losses.

    If you decide to be more modest in what you spend, I think VS is one of the best casinos out there for low rollers, if you like playing and have the time, with all the tourneys and races. Plus, super quick. But you are not having the "beat the bonus" challenge often.
     

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