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Slot Payout % per machine vs all

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by teamclark4, Jul 8, 2006.

    Jul 8, 2006
  1. teamclark4

    teamclark4 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    computers
    Location:
    arizona
    If I connect to , let's say 32red, and go to play Avalon. Does my connection to Avalon connect to a unique "machine id" behind the scenes that has a payout percentage that is Different then any of the other Avalon sessions being played by everyone else?

    I'm under the impression that in a B&M casino if I go to a Haywire slot machine, it has been programmed for a specific payout percentage, yet the Haywire right next to it could have a slightly different payout percentage.

    Does this apply to my connection to Avalon as well? Or are all the Avalons (or all the slots for that matter) set to a specific payout percentage regardless of which "machine" you're actually attached to in your session.

    Let me say that this site is fantastic and has been extremely helpful in both the things to watch out for, and all of the great info.

    Been playing Microgaming slots for the past year or so, probably pretty close to even; though no big wins yet.


    Thanks for anyones input.
     
  2. Jul 8, 2006
  3. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    I'm sorry I have no real knowledge of this but, I would think it is the same for anyone playing that slot at that particular casino. And Haywire...ahh that was my first jackpot ever. $1600 at the Tropicana.:thumbsup:
     
  4. Jul 8, 2006
  5. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I was told my someone I respect and is "in the know" a while back that the RNG is supplied within the software and is firmly packaged and secured plus it's the same RNG for each installation. I was trying to get a definitive answer from MG on this but have received no response, to date.

    My opinion is that this is both good and bad, probably more good than bad mind. In one repsect it means you know that a casino cannot downgrade a game at certain times. On the other hand, it removes the flexibility for casinos to set their odds competitively.

    With RTG, the casinos can alter the paytables on Video Poker. Of course, because the payout schedule is "published" in VP, this means that a punter can calculate the expected return. With slots of course, that doesn't happen. The advantage is that you can find Video Poker games on RTG that pay beyond what you'd expect at other casinos, which gives a competitive edge (Joker Poker at iNetBet for example). And vica-versa of course.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  6. Jul 8, 2006
  7. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I am sure all games use the same RNG. (Even if there are several identical RNG for performance they all work the same so it does not matter).

    The RNG does not know know if the result are used for roulette or a slot etc.
    The 5-reel slots are not weighted. Each reel has typical 30 to 40 symbols, and the RNG just picks a random non-weighted position on each reel.
    (Actually the RNG picks a number between 0 and 1 and a mathematical function then maps this(uniform!) to 5 different numbers that are the reel positions)

    This is the packet recieved in the flash client when getting the result for a spin:

    <Pkt><Id mid="10041" cid="10001" sid="0" sessionid="8d6493b8-83bc-4289-8033-1e90a1c1e443" verb="Spin"/><Response><Framework state="1" /><Player balance="95620" totalWin="120" /><Slot win="120" state="0" reelSet="0" reelPos="5,10,24,31,29"><VisArea><Row symbols="6,7,3,8,6" /><Row symbols="8,0,7,6,5" /><Row symbols="3,4,1,4,3" /></VisArea><Wins><Win payline="4" id="17" numCoinsWon="120" matchPos="0,6,12" /></Wins></Slot><Gamble state="1" gamblesMade="0" win="0" allowColour="1" allowSuit="0" allowHalf="0" allowFull="1" /></Response></Pkt>

    This fragment is the spin-result:
    reelPos="5,10,24,31,29"
    And what I just say is that these 5-numbers are random. (Each between 0 and the number of symbols on that reel).

    The payout% for a 5-reel slots is final and depend on the number of symbols on the reels and the paytable when defining the slot. It can not be changed again even, not even by MG unless they change the reels or paytable again. For 3-reel slots MG can change the weighting of the reels and change the payout. I like the 5-reel slots because 'what you see is what you get'.

    I made this slot-analyzer program where you can try change the reels and see how it changes the payout%. (unzip all files)


    Zoozie
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
  8. Jul 9, 2006
  9. teamclark4

    teamclark4 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    computers
    Location:
    arizona
    Thanks for the feedback guys. Does this mean in a B&M with my Haywire example that the different payout percentages between two identical machines is a function of one machine having the symbols on the reels weighted differently? So that hypothetically if you could see all the symbols on all the reels that are possible, between the two machines, that the number of times each symbol is on the reels would be different? Thus contributing to a slightly different payout percentage?

    The crux if the 32red question is to determine if I can actually be on a "cold" lower payout Avalon slot; but then go play another slot and then come back to Avalon and be connected to one of the higher payout percentages. I know that in the 500 spins I do it's too small a sample to fully realize whatever the percentage payout is.

    Just like in a casino, if you play a slot for a little while and it's giving you nothing you go to a different slot (which as a different unknown percentage payout) and try to find one that is "paying".
     
  10. Jul 9, 2006
  11. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Some B&M 5-reels casinos could work different that the 5-reel online slots, but I see no reason why. And I played lot of 'pookies' in Australia and they also seemed to 'play fair'. By this I mean if you know the
    reel has 30 symbols and 1 scatter, you should get the scatter on that reel with probability 10%. This goes for all reels.

    The payout% is the same for the same slot, but different 5-reel slots can have different payout%.
    (Thunderstruck has payout 95% while Tally Ho has 96%).

    So to answer your question it does not matter where you play 'Avalon'.
    The MG casinos have no control over the payout%. And as I said before
    MG can only change it by changing the paytable/reels. And I do think this
    has ever happened. Of course it would be hard to detect if they change the reels. But why should they? The slot have payout% no higher than 96% by design. If they want to be more greedy they can just design the new slots they release every month to have lower payout%.

    Zoozie
     
  12. Jul 11, 2006
  13. teamclark4

    teamclark4 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    computers
    Location:
    arizona
    Well on the plus side I guess I don't have to worry about jumping in and out of the same slot trying to get a "loose" vs "tight" version of it.

    Thanks for the feedback..
     

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