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Skyvegas winnings withheld and unreasonable / intrusive requests

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by cocktails&dream, Sep 16, 2015.

    Sep 16, 2015
  1. cocktails&dream

    cocktails&dream Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    UK
    Hi all, long time reader/lurker (but please don’t hold that against me lol.)B ut have now made myself an account as currently have a dispute with Skyvegas which I wanted to tell you about.

    A few weeks ago I made myself a Skyvegas account and took a deposit bonus. Didn’t have much luck and bust out. I re-deposited to continue playing (no bonus as I had already had the SUB) and after playing for a while ended up hitting two good slots wins. I then played some roulette and BJ too and ran pretty well there. Decided to cash out before I ended up losing it all so made a withdrawal of just over £2500

    When I tried to log in next day the my account was suspended and I had not been informed why (something that really gets my goat), so went on live chat and was told they needed ‘advanced id’. No problem sent them my ID, me holding the ID, bank statement and proof of deposit. Took them 48 hours to respond and when they did they just asked how I funded my deposit, I said from funds already in my account that I use for online gaming / bingo / sports betting etc.

    It then took another 72+ hours for a reply and now they asked me if I had multiple accounts or was linked to other accounts. I confirmed that I just had the one Skyvegas account. They also asked for a screenshot of the first ever bit of money going into my bank account. I said I cannot provide this as the account is much too old now for me to able to access that and furthermore what help would it be?

    I responded saying they were being beyond unreasonable and requested that they either verify all the details I had already provided and re open the account for us, or close it, send me my balance and I will play elsewhere. They then said as I am not willing to comply they cannot do anything else.

    I have read the PAB rules and could not find a sky rep on the list. I will answer any questions and discuss this issue here if anyone is interested or has any advice up until the point I submit a PAB (if it gets to that and am I am able).

    Cheers
     
  2. Sep 16, 2015
  3. sigothx1

    sigothx1 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Civil servant
    Location:
    England
    Something smells a bit funny, skyvegas aren't your crappy start up casino who will delay and ask for the world to keep funds, the fact they have asked for "Advanced" ID suggests from my point of view the method you were using to deposit they have concerns with, as you mentioned statements i am to assume a form of card was used, now in the casino i work for once a card deposit is made, an internal check will verify the name you have entered on the card, if that does not match the name on the account we block it, and if any winnings are made from it well ask for ID of the card holder / picture of the card as well as your own ID, assuming this is infact your card, i have heard of rogue operators asking for things like proof of income, which basically means they want to know exactly where you got the money to make your deposits, one thing you need to clear up is how much did you deposit, and was it your card?

    The reason i ask is, your run of the mill depositor doesn't simply deposit £1000's in the space of days, so at my casino if we have reasonable suspicion of money laundering we can ask to see evidence of the funds in your account, never heard of asking for the "first" amount of money to go into the account, hell my bank account is over a decade old, no idea if my bank would even have that data. I assume that such a big brand would have a phone contact section? if so id be ringing them and asking why they need this info, and how they expect you to provide it.
     
  4. Sep 16, 2015
  5. cocktails&dream

    cocktails&dream Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the comment sigothx1. The card belongs to me and I have provided them with evidence of this. My first deposit was £500 to receive a £1000 bonus. My second deposit was much smaller at £50. I have plenty of experience at online gaming, sports betting etc and know that depositing with someone else's payment method into an account in a different name is an absolute no no and not something I would even think of doing.

    I was also surprised because like you say Sky are a big company. Doing a bit of digging and reading I have found other reports of them being extremely 'nosey' when it comes to verification and it seems like photo by the face etc is pretty standard for them these days. I know casinos have money laundering regulations to follow but from what I have read that does not come into effect until something like £1600 is deposited, or something like that? Even so I have shown that the payment method is mine and the money was in my account.

    I tried to call in but it just constantly tells me there is a problem with the phone line so I gave up. I doubt I could speak to the security department on the phone anyway and would just be banging my head against a brick wall with customer service.

    I will leave the thread going for a bit longer to see if anyone else has something to add. I will then look at using the PAB service. I also intentdto complain to their regulator and will go down the legal route if it gets to that. Just want to make sure I do things in the right order.

    Cheers
     
  6. Sep 16, 2015
  7. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    If you signed up from an affiliate site (that would include email offers I expect), I would try asking them for help. They must have a point of contact.

    Asking for your opening deposit on a bank account is simply silly. In my case, how would my $50 cash deposit in 1978 possibly of any help to them? I only remember the year because the bank was right next door to my first real job, and the amount because I got a free leather wallet.

    Go read the PAB FAQs. You are wisest not to post further about your issue, as it may hurt your chance at a successful resolution. You MUST not post after submitting a PAB.
     
  8. Sep 16, 2015
  9. cocktails&dream

    cocktails&dream Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    UK
    I just signed up through their site so no option there. I have always been under the impression signing up through affiliate links gets you worse treatment as the site then has to share any of your losses with the affiliate.

    Absolutely, its seeming apparent to me that they are just asking for something that they know I either A. Don't have or B. Won't send it because it has no relevance and this then means in their mind they can just say I am not complying so will not go any further in resolving the issue.

    The first thing I did was read the PAB FAQ's. Hence the reason I didn't come in kicking and screaming, saying Skybet are thieves and I'm going to take them court immediately. From what I understand I am fine to post about the issue, in fact it's a good thing as raises awareness and stimulates a bit of debate. As soon as I file a PAB that will be it from me on the issue until it is decided. I did not see a Sky rep on the list so if anyone knows there is one then please let me know. Thanks.
     
  10. Sep 16, 2015
  11. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Just quick info on your comment above mate. That is absolute nonsense! basically by signing up through an affiliate, then you are basically giving that affiliate some earnings, for their work and the casinos pays out a percentage to the affiliate program for the referred player. Then that affiliate program pays out to their affiliate.

    By signing up through an affiliate or website with a link or banner does not in any way effect how you are treated by that casino or in any way effect your RTP or how much you can win or anything like that. On the other hand you have someone you can turn to if you get a problem with that casino which is only a good thing. Hope that make sense :thumbsup:

    But in this case we are talking multi million company who will not give a F.... to be honest. They had a thing back last year when there was a slot which paid out jackpot prizes by mistake and people was suing them. Seriously if you plan to sue them on this then good luck. I would leave it with a PAB as I have no doubt Max would have no problems in helping as long you keep everything 100% honest and stop posting in this thread :thumbsup:
     
  12. Sep 16, 2015
  13. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Right SkyVegas are a pretty sound outfit. Like you I am a UK player, for years and have withdrawn and deposited 1000's. They were accredited but their rep has gone AWOL and so have been booted and I believe put in the reservation.

    I have never been asked for docs/KYC because obviously they have (like many big UK sites) verified me electronically.

    They have an issue with the integrity of your account. Only you know why.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sep 16, 2015
  15. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    I hope that was a typo?? :D

    On a serious note clearly if Skyvegas had any suspicion on multiple accounts then clearly they would already know this or have proof. I find it very strange why they are requesting all this from you.

    Clearly as it's UK then they would be able to use credit check on you with your identity information. I know several does this I have that several times on my credit file which I am not really happy about but hey ho.

    But I can see you won over £2500 this could be reason if it is a new account. As I think to remember the new Gambling commission rule is very strict when someone wants to withdraw a certain large amount first time which requires all those security checks etc.

    About your bank account as well seems very silly from skyvegas. They seriously want a screen shot of you bank payments from when you opened it??? Sure they do not mean screen shot from your first payment into the skyvegas account?
     
  16. Sep 17, 2015
  17. cocktails&dream

    cocktails&dream Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    UK
    Yes def a typo lol. Although it's not uncommon for people from the north to refer to themselves as us! I have a friend who when he goes for a nap will say 'Here wake us up at 5pm' even though he is the only other person there!

    Anyhow quick note on the affiliate comment, I was coming more from a sports betting angle. Have seen people say they received less ongoing offers and bonuses on accounts they went through an affiliate banner vs those opened directly. You could see why this would be the case as the affiliate account you cost them more as a customer (or make them less however you want to put it).

    I moved house earlier in the year so probably aren't on the electoral roll at this address yet. So an ID request in general is to be expected. I rarely had ID requested on accounts from my old address as I lived there a good while. The fact that they asked me in one of their emails if I had more than one account or was linked to others suggests that for some reason they suspect that but don't actually have any proof otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't be asking me!

    They were quite clear about wanting a screenshot showing how my bank account was first funded. I sent a screenshot showing the two deposits to sky to them very early doors.

    Not sure why people keep commenting about me posting in this thread, I have read the rules and as I have repeated several times will stop posting the minute I file a PAB. Until that point I just wanted to see what others thought and if anyone had advice or similar issues.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sep 17, 2015
  19. asadzareef89

    asadzareef89 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    Admin Asst
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    i think what they may have meant was a screenshot of first deposit that was made into the casino as that is the only logical explanation.

    My first ever deposit into my account was a 1 pound as that was needed to open the account lol

    Never played at skyvegas, did open an account when they had a 10ndb 3-4 yrs ago but the site was way too complicated for me back then and couldnt even claim the 10 quid for some reason so never bothered again, but its the first ever post of this kind against skyvegas that i have come around and generally have only read good things about them

    I'll have to agree with dunover here that there is something that only the OP knows at this point which has raised their suspicions to this level as a company of this size really doesnt have a problem with paying 2500 quid withdrawal
     
  20. Sep 17, 2015
  21. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    I will agree in this and I actually still enjoy playing there despite this thread around 3 years ago actually started by myself :p http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48633&highlight=skyvegas confiscates
     
  22. Sep 17, 2015
  23. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas
    Assuming there's no other information we're not aware of, I would hazard a guess this is where the problem may be...

    Making only 2 deposits & their value being 10x or 1/10th of each other would trigger alarm bells. (Large 1st deposit could have immediately put you in a potential 'advantage' or 'fraudulent' player category (especially since you took a bonus. (Systems that catagorise players are usually automated, so I wouldn't take offence at it happening)). As the value of your 2nd deposit then varies significantly, a bonus wasn't taken, and a cash-out has been requested (which is ~5x the total value of deposits), a lot of internal checks and procedures will have to be undertaken.

    From personal experience, I've never had any issues with SkyVegas, however it wouldn't necessarily surprise me that internal alarm bells would sound at any casino when reviewing the above transnational information. How a site handles these scenarios is what really sets them apart.



    In the absence of any forum rep (or friendly affiliate who may want to intervene even though you're not 'their' player (they can be brilliant help in situations such as this)), I would recommend the PAB service here. Max is a true champ!

    Best of luck with this & please keep us posted on progress.
     
  24. Sep 18, 2015
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Electronic checks wouldn't work in this case as the electoral roll data is a key component. Much of the rest is standard manual KYC for when electronic checks are not used. The real oddity is the request about the bank account. Unless this was opened recently, it's impossible to comply with for most banks because they only have to keep data for around 6 years, and online banking may only allow you to see the last 12 months worth of data.

    I opened my Lloyds bank account around 1977, it would be impossible for me to obtain any evidence of how I first funded it, and this would not be a case of me refusing to cooperate. If Lloyds were told by a court that they would have to provide this evidence or be shut down, they would get shut down. They would of course never be asked to do the impossible by a court.

    It seems even sillier for them to pull such a stunt on a UK player because a complaint could be made about such an impossible demand, and they would be in a great deal of trouble. They would have to be almost certain you are a fraudster and would never make an official complaint to take such a risk. This is why others find it impossible to believe this is the actual request they made, and that instead they are talking about you verifying the bank account from which the first and much larger deposit was made, and only want to see evidence of this deposit leaving the bank.

    Regular bank account verification usually means a statement page within the past 3 months that shows your address along with the basic account details that they would know from when the deposit was made.

    The problems may stem from the house move, and may relate to something the previous occupants did - maybe they too had an account there, and the casino thinks you are them trying to open a second account.
     
  26. Sep 18, 2015
  27. cocktails&dream

    cocktails&dream Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the comments guys. Their request is 100% to see evidence of the first money to enter my bank account. I have provided them with screenshots of my online statement showing both deposits into Skybet.

    I'm not sure what other players on here do, but I have my regular current account, and then a second bank account that I use for my casino play, betting, basically anything that a lender etc may not be best pleased to see when applying for a mortgage. I also find it much better in terms of using disciplined bank roll management. And Skybet want to see the very first bit of money to enter that bank account which I used for my deposit. A very odd request because as mentioned I have had it a long time and it's something I simply cannot provide.

    I am now going to use the PAB service so will not comment again on this thread until that has ran it course.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Sep 18, 2015
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If you have had it a long time, they should know it's an impossible request. It seems odd that a UK licenced casino is going to use an impossible request in order to artificially create a condition of non compliance with KYC so that they can justify non payment of winnings. They can't know how long someone has had a particular bank account, so they are knowingly making a request that could be impossible to comply with. This isn't legitimate KYC, it's rogue trading, and UK customers have a raft of legal protections against this that are likely to be stronger than the PAB service here.

    The first stage would be to make the complaint formal with the casino, and get them to issue a "deadlock" response. You can then complain to a third party complaints resolution service that all UK licensed casinos must sign up to. The complaint should be specific about them making an impossible demand, and then using non compliance as a reason to accuse you of failing to cooperate with KYC and thus forfeiting the winnings. You may be able to strengthen your case by getting your bank involved with the dispute, you really only need evidence from them that they too regard the demand as impossible for them to provide to their customer for use in KYC. It may be a case of finding a clause in their terms and conditions that specify how far back it's possible for you to obtain historical account information. It's probably going to be at least 6 years as there is a requirement to keep such data for a certain length of time, but when it comes to going further back, banks have their own policies.
    If government intended that people would have to show initial funding of bank accounts during a legitimate KYC process based on anti money laundering rules, they would have changed the rules so that banks were required to keep customers' transaction data "forever".

    Many people who have tried to dispute things like misselling of endowments some 20 to 25 years ago often hit the problem that records are no longer available that far back because no legal obligation to keep them exists. What you can do is get hold of the historical statement that is the furthest one available in the past to demonstrate that this is as far as records go, and that you have had the account for that long.

    Surely, for accounts that have been had for so long, the initial deposit into them is completely irrelevant in any case as it has nothing to do with current activity.

    The financial regulators HAVE on several occasions slapped down some overly anal applications of KYC and told banks to "get real" about applying the rules to everyday customers and transactions as there was a serious problem with the elderly and benefit claimants finding it impossible to open a bank account, which frustrated government policies of switching everyone over to payments to bank accounts of things like pensions and benefits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Sep 25, 2015
  31. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FTR Sky Vegas support people say they won't discuss the issue "for confidentiality reasons" and suggest that the player contact them directly. Obviously the player has already done that and been dissatisfied with the result, hence the PAB.

    I'll press this with them but the chances are I'll just be talking to the hand.
     
    2 people like this.
  32. Sep 28, 2015
  33. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
  34. Sep 29, 2015
  35. dealer wins

    dealer wins Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Finncial Controler
    Location:
    London the sh$thole
    Wow a big UK gaming company is treating a customer as bad as some Russian scam joint would. Time to avoid all Sky gaming products me thinks.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Sep 29, 2015
  37. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I hope the OP pursues this through other channels.

    Would love to hear eventual outcome.
     
  38. Sep 29, 2015
  39. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    The casino group is UKGC licensed so the OP will need to go to their designated ADR, at least as the next step in the process. I've given the OP the necessary info.
     
    1 person likes this.

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