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Sky Bet. Telling me pork pies (Lies)

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by keldow6608, Dec 10, 2007.

    Dec 10, 2007
  1. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    Sorry Im new and complaining but I didnt know this place existed.

    I signed up to Skybet on the 4th December 2007. There sign up bonus for the casino was dep 100 and bet 2000 then wager another 3000 and ask for 150. This 150 would be issued as withdrawable cash. I did this and when I asked for the 150 they credited it, but then said I had to bet another 3000. Er, no this isnt what I signed up to. Here are the email exchanges

    Dear
    Thank you for your e-mail.

    All bonuses will be non-playable and will only be converted to withdrawable funds when the value of the bonus is turned over a minimum of 20 times using your own funds.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I hope that answers your query but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Kind Regards,

    Oscar de Villiers
    Customer Care Team
    Sky Bet l Sky Poker l Sky Vegas
    T: 08000 724 777
    From:
    Date: 08/12/2007 19:25
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Subject: RE: <> - Service Request reference: 00044590

    No you are wrong. The terms changed on the night after I had joined. I have a friend who recommended your site too me. This is the text of the email you sent to them on the 4th

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    After wagering the required amount for the second stage of the sign up bonus, your account has now been credited with the additional 150.00GBP as stated on the website.
    This will now show as part of your balance and is available for withdrawal.

    Kind regards,

    Rayaan Alie


    Customer Care Team
    Sky Bet l Sky Poker l Sky Vegas
    T: 08000 724 777

    The service request reference is 00041889??

    Please do not insult my inteligence. You may be able to change Terms and Conditions but Under the
    The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 any changes after entering into a contract can be to the detriment to the consumer. Any additional wagering would be to my detriment.

    Like I said, please change the bonus to withdrawable. When you do I will withdraw and close my account. The attitude that you can change the terms after I have joined and compell me to them stinks




    Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:35:46 +0000
    From: This email is not visible to you.
    To:
    Subject: <> - Service Request reference: 00044590

    Dear

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    I can confirm that the details of the Terms and Conditions have not been altered and the wagering conditions remain the same as they have always been. Notwithstanding this, it does state that Skybet can change the conditions of any offers at any time.



    Kind Regards,
    Phil

    Customer Care Team
    Sky Bet l Sky Poker l Sky Vegas
    T: 08000 724 777
    From:
    Date: 07/12/2007 23:53
    To: This email is not visible to you.
    Subject: RE: <> - Service Request reference: 00044107


    Im sorry but that is wrong. When I signed up, the Terms and Conditions clearly stated that the bonus money would be withdrawable. You changed your conditions the night/morning of 5/6th December 2007. The terms applicable when I signed p are the ones Im bound to, so please make the bonus withdrawable



    Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 18:46:50 +0000
    From: This email is not visible to you.
    To:
    Subject: <> - Service Request reference: 00044107

    Dear ,

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    After wagering the required amount for the second stage of the sign up bonus, your account has now been credited with the additional 150.00GBP as stated on the website. This will now show as non-playable and will only be converted to withdrawable funds when the value of the bonus is turned over a minimum of 20 times using your own funds.

    We thank you for using Sky Vegas and wish you the best of luck!

    Kind Regards,

    Michelle Petrus
    Customer Care Team
    Sky Bet l Sky Poker l Sky Vegas
    T: 08000 724 777


    I have highlighted some relevant points. One being Skybets insistance that they can change their terms and conditions whenever they want and I have to fall in line and the proof that there terms were as I stated in an email my friend received from them. I joined on there refer a friend and even listed my friends user id.

    Now for my sins I am a solicitor but dont specialise in contract law but did a paper on it at University, hence the quote on the UTCC 1999.

    Can any one help before I issue papers
     
  2. Dec 10, 2007
  3. cynthial

    cynthial Boo

    Occupation:
    Fireproofing
    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Hi Keldow,

    Welcome to the forum.

    I am thinking that you do not have a screen shot of the original bonus offer. Is this correct? If it is, you may want to try one of the internet archive machines like Wayback. If they changed a page as you think they did, it will show with an asterisk on that date and you can perhaps get a screenie of the page as it was prior to the change.

    Folks with much more knowledge than I about this type of thing will be along shortly to lend you a hand. You came to the right place for counsel.

    Hang in there. :)

    ps. Always get a screen shot for the future. :thumbsup:
     
  4. Dec 10, 2007
  5. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    Thanks for that I will have a look

    Im amazed at their attitude. I have told them the person who told me of their offer, I have sent them the email that they sent him on the same day I joined with the 150 withdrawable.

    I will be quite prepared to take them to court over this. I will be speaking to a colleague at work regarding the UTCC when I am in work on Tuesday. It owuld cost me 25 GBP to raise a claim which even if I lost, which I wont if I do raise, the cost are not recoverable by the other side as it would be allocated to the small claims court.
     
  6. Dec 10, 2007
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Do their terms state disputes are handled under English law? Many casinos, especially the rogues, make it very hard to get justice in a court because they use odd licencing juristictions that have none of the consumer protection laws of the UK and EU.
    If you CAN get a case booked, they may well not turn up, and then you should win by default provided you can show the terms had changed after you signed up. I doubt ANY casino would risk a court case going against them, and if they thought it likely, i.e, they are trying to pull a "fast one", they will settle at the last minute just like the banks did before they got involved in that "supercomplaint".
     
  8. Dec 10, 2007
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    They're licensed in Alderney and regulated by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC).

    Also, you might want to make absolutely certain that there was a change in terms. If you compare their current terms (You must register/login in order to see the link.)
    to google's cache of December 4th (You must register/login in order to see the link.) you'll see that there's no change. And if you use web.archive.org to go back to August '07 (You must register/login in order to see the link.) again it's the same terms.
    (Many thanks to Bryan for digging this stuff up)
     
  10. Dec 10, 2007
  11. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    Many thanks for that.

    The terms I did not take great note of as such which I know is detrimental to me, however and as I said, the chap who refered me only that same day received the email highlighted and bolded in Red quite clearly stating that the bonus was withdrawable.

    In regards law, as long as the company has offices in England, they would be answerable in an English court. As the perfect example you used being the bank charges scenario, for example, The Royal Bank Of Scotlands head office is in Edinburgh, however, people used the English courts as they had branches in England and English law suited their claim the better.

    I have shown my colleague the emails, and after his shock regarding me playing at an online casino, he was confident that the email my friend received and his statement of account, would be sufficient to prove my case.

    Another thing to bare is that in a civil case, which this would be, the arguement is not beyond reasonable doubt, but in all probability. So fo SKY to say no it isnt and for me to produce an email saying yes it is, they wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
     
  12. Dec 10, 2007
  13. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Doubtless that is true, but AFAIK Alderney is not "in England". Here are some quotes from You must register/login in order to see the link. :

     
  14. Dec 10, 2007
  15. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    There address on their website is

    Central House
    Beckwith Knowle
    Otley Road
    Harrogate
    North Yorkshire
    HG3 1WA

    Its only the license that held in Alderny, not their head office.
     
  16. Dec 10, 2007
  17. tristan727

    tristan727 Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca

    Occupation:
    credit manager
    Location:
    London
    I really hate it when casinos do this- the problem often is lowly c.s. staff simply aren't trained or even aware of such retrospective & binding issues. And quite a few skybet staff are uniquely untrained in their job - their lack of knowledge of what's going on at the casino, or what a casino is - has left me absolutely dumbfounded sometimes. I think they just bring them in from the satellite or newspaper divisions for some kind of break. Fortunately some are quite good - it's really potluck who picks up the phone.

    Personally, and I know you won't like it - I'd probably suck it in, and wager out the required, and save your ammo for worse disputes, like non-payment or double charging your card. Not that you should have to, but heh -you might win.
     
  18. Dec 10, 2007
  19. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    The T&C state "These terms shall be governed by and construed in accordance with Alderney Law". Skybetvegas is registered in Alderney, it may well contest the competence of the English courts. No idea how the English court would deal with this, but it would not be a small claims track case any more.

    That's easy because under Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982 you, as a customer may sue either in the country where he lives or where the company is based. Alderney is not covered by this and Skybet has no office in England as far I know.
     
  20. Dec 11, 2007
  21. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    Grand Master

    SkyBetVegas
    Central House
    Beckwith Knowle
    Otley Road
    Harrogate
    HG3 1WA



    Found here

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Therefore papers would be served here.
     
  22. Dec 11, 2007
  23. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I took their SUB in September 2006, at the time the T&C's said this:-
    I think this is the same as it is now.
    I wagered the extra 5000, got the second 150 and was able to immediately cash out.
    Although the T&C's are very poorly written I do believe that this was correct. You do the WR first, then get the bonus. It would be ridiculous to have to do the WR again afterwards - and I certainly would not have gone for such an offer if that was the case.

    However I do agree that Sky Bet are the biggest liars on the internet!
    Ever since I joined they have been posting blatant lies right on their hopepage - and they're still doing it now. Read these carefully & you'll soon realise it's total bollocks! :mad:
     
  24. Dec 12, 2007
  25. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Report them to the Alderney Gambling Control Commission.
     
  26. Dec 12, 2007
  27. Fr05t3d

    Fr05t3d Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Property Developer/GAMBLER
    Location:
    UK
    My thoughts

    I'd just like to comment on this as something seems to have been missed. For the record, I've never had an account at skybet nor do I promote them on my site.

    The original post contained the following comment.

    I signed up to Skybet on the 4th December 2007. There sign up bonus for the casino was dep 100 and bet 2000 then wager another 3000 and ask for 150. This 150 would be issued as withdrawable cash. I did this and when I asked for the 150 they credited it, but then said I had to bet another 3000. Er, no this isnt what I signed up to.

    Now, it says deposit 100 and then bet 2,000. THEN wager another 3,000 and ask for 150. Would it not just say wager 5,000, rather than wager 2,000 then another 3,000 and then ask for the 150. Is it possible that the OP misread - i.e. he had to wager, then ask for the bonus, then wager a further amount?

    Not wishing to defend or attack anybody, but I do find it unlikely that an organisation like Sky would set out to defraud or even mislead. Just my thoughts.

    Cheers.
     
  28. Dec 12, 2007
  29. keldow6608

    keldow6608 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mum
    Location:
    Home as usual
    Frosted

    No problem. If you look at my original post my arguement is substantiated with an email my referer received from Sky on the same day as I joined showing that their bonus had been credited and they could withdraw
     
  30. Dec 12, 2007
  31. Fr05t3d

    Fr05t3d Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Property Developer/GAMBLER
    Location:
    UK
    True!

    I did see that, and it does add weight to your argument. Not hugely conclusive though as maybe they wagered the original requirement, requested the bonus by e-mail, then fulfilled the secondary requirement and informed support by e-mail and the e-mail you quote was responding to both. Do understand your frustrations though, and it certainly isn't clear cut either way.

    Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate - and it's awfully uncomfortable sitting on this fence!

    Cheers.
     
  32. Dec 12, 2007
  33. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Hint, please...
     
  34. Dec 12, 2007
  35. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I'm glad Zoozie asked first :p

    Yes, please give us a hint.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Dec 12, 2007
  37. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    Take a look at the blackjack winner in the September 2006 version...
     
  38. Dec 12, 2007
  39. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Does Skybet have the ability to increase the default bet size range for some players?
     

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