Question Showing/Hiding slot rtp

[curremon]

I want to ask what casino benefits for not showing rtp ?

Especially casino which runs max rtp versions but still dont show it..
Casinos are not there to be "good guys" since they are making money of it.

In businesswise how it can be good idea to run best rtp and not showing it, since atleast i am allways looking png games rtp when joining casino. And many times choose not to play casino with lower rtp.

Not everyone knows how to check rtp if its not in info file.

So that leads to question number 2.

Is it easier to casino change rtp versions fast if they dont have to change info at same time ?

 

[slot_zombie]

I believe that Play & Go hides the RTP by default, except in jurisdictions where it is required to be displayed by regulations, irrespective of the RTP setting.

 

[Christine28]

There is no other choice but to check the RTP of each on line casino site before playing. You need to become disciplined and do the check right away before wagering any money, if you want to win and have a fair chance. If you do not check, you might never win anything.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I don't understand why you would search for a game version from a provider determined to hide the info.

The simple fact that Play'n GO hide RTP ratings is a major red flag for me.

No other game developer can lay claim to changing the industry so much by screwing over so many.

Phones should be washed in bleach just for loading a Play'n GO slot, and showers taken afterwards before taking a quiet seat in a dark corner to think over your sins.

 

[The Reel Story]

I want to ask what casino benefits for not showing rtp ?

Especially casino which runs max rtp versions but still dont show it..
Casinos are not there to be "good guys" since they are making money of it.

In businesswise how it can be good idea to run best rtp and not showing it, since atleast i am allways looking png games rtp when joining casino. And many times choose not to play casino with lower rtp.

Not everyone knows how to check rtp if its not in info file.

So that leads to question number 2.

Is it easier to casino change rtp versions fast if they dont have to change info at same time ?

It would be slightly easier for the Casino to change RTP versions if they didn't need to modify the front end, as they would only need to change the back end.

It would also make it easier for them to direct different users to different RTP versions. For instance, a VIP could get a higher RTP than a new player. They wouldn't need to use different game clients for this, just point them at different back ends.

I have no idea if any Casino's actually do this BTW (I've never worked with one that has), but it is technically possible.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I seem to remember the MGA discussing such a facility. Not sure what happened, or even if I interpreted the info correctly. I will try and find it, I posted about it somewhere.

It wouldn't surprise me if it occurs with VIPs, or streamers

 

[Guntis]

It would be slightly easier for the Casino to change RTP versions if they didn't need to modify the front end, as they would only need to change the back end.

It would also make it easier for them to direct different users to different RTP versions. For instance, a VIP could get a higher RTP than a new player. They wouldn't need to use different game clients for this, just point them at different back ends.

I have no idea if any Casino's actually do this BTW (I've never worked with one that has), but it is technically possible.

Many non-UK casinos offer VIPs new games that are not yet available to all players. So what you're mentioning could easily be true. For example, Joe, we've got new arrivals with decent RTPs, do you want to try these games out before anyone else? If so just give us a shout via Skype and we'll sort it all out for you...

 

[slot_zombie]

I don't understand why you would search for a game version from a provider determined to hide the info.

The simple fact that Play'n GO hide RTP ratings is a major red flag for me.

No other game developer can lay claim to changing the industry so much by screwing over so many.

Phones should be washed in bleach just for loading a Play'n GO slot, and showers taken afterwards before taking a quiet seat in a dark corner to think over your sins.

The most baffling is that they hide by default unless forced to show, even on settings that RTP Fox flags as being max!

 

[Guntis]

There are inconsistencies between RTP Fox and the actual game RTP setting. Here is an example of Book of Dead on Sisal, it's one of the top gambling companies in Italy.

 

[bamberfishcake]

The most baffling is that they hide by default unless forced to show, even on settings that RTP Fox flags as being max!

Indeed, and without knowing why we can only speculate. We know some casinos have demos at max but cash versions at lower settings, perhaps they are trying to hide that fact.

 

[funnymunny]

I don't understand why you would search for a game version from a provider determined to hide the info.

The simple fact that Play'n GO hide RTP ratings is a major red flag for me.

No other game developer can lay claim to changing the industry so much by screwing over so many.

Phones should be washed in bleach just for loading a Play'n GO slot, and showers taken afterwards before taking a quiet seat in a dark corner to think over your sins.

Aside from elements others have mentioned (e.g. putting players off the games & not advertising the different versions of the same game), a dev studios preference to not having the RTP information readily available was to make it difficult for their games to be copied...

Reel strips can be easily found & symbol payouts are always shown, but without knowing the RTP it can be extremely difficult and time consuming to competitors to re-create the most successful games. RTP is a significant contributor to the 'secret sauce' of every game - revealing that can give a player a reason not to play it, as well as your competitors the ability to clone or improve their version of it.

For reference, I totally support the instant display of game payout, just adding a different perspective.

 

[orion]

There are inconsistencies between RTP Fox and the actual game RTP setting. Here is an example of Book of Dead on Sisal, it's one of the top gambling companies in Italy.


View attachment 192642

not sure what you mean with FOX RTP but Sisal, as well as many other italian operators, is just mentioning the overall RTP of the LAST MONTH (considering all the players), and they are not available to show the set RTPs.
In Italy this is legal.

 

[Guntis]

not sure what you mean with FOX RTP but Sisal, as well as many other italian operators, is just mentioning the overall RTP of the LAST MONTH (considering all the players), and they are not available to show the set RTPs.
In Italy this is legal.

Oh, i don't know Italian and thought that RTP Fox shows the max RTP for this game while Sisal provides it at 94.92%.

 

[orion]

it's a trick used in Italy to avoid telling the players about the real RTPs set by the casinos / providers.
it's also very comfortable since doing this way, the different casinos can easily copy / paiste and share the same file, avoiding to do their homeworks as single operations.
and - again - this is perfectly legal.
sad but true.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I see hills have started to (surprise surprise) not show the RTP on their own game info screens now.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I popped into a Yggdrasil to take a peak and was on 90.6%.

Wankers.

 

[dunover]

There is no other choice but to check the RTP of each on line casino site before playing. You need to become disciplined and do the check right away before wagering any money, if you want to win and have a fair chance. If you do not check, you might never win anything.

Written by Anthony Iommi. That Black Sabbath guitarist has now become a prolific author.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Aside from elements others have mentioned (e.g. putting players off the games & not advertising the different versions of the same game), a dev studios preference to not having the RTP information readily available was to make it difficult for their games to be copied...

Reel strips can be easily found & symbol payouts are always shown, but without knowing the RTP it can be extremely difficult and time consuming to competitors to re-create the most successful games. RTP is a significant contributor to the 'secret sauce' of every game - revealing that can give a player a reason not to play it, as well as your competitors the ability to clone or improve their version of it.

For reference, I totally support the instant display of game payout, just adding a different perspective.

Sounds plausible, but every other game developer (as far as I know) openly displays their game RTP even in demo mode.

I think Pragmatic started doing similar, and this RTP hiding phenomenon came after the fact they were displayed previously.

There was a conscious decision to hide information previously displayed, way after games were being copied.

 

[jasonuk]

Historically it was because the RTPs could be quite low - even online there were slots at 90-93%. Only when the RTP wars started (think early NetEnt pushing to 96%, 97% and even 98%) did players become more aware and there was more of a push for the RTPs to be published (e.g. UKGC mandating it some years ago).

As you'll have seen, some providers make it increasingly difficult to find - it's in a secondary help file, it's in a buried sub-menu at the bottom of a long page of text, or it's stated in multiple parts.

Now-a-days, the only reason not to highlight it is because you're nerfing the hell out of it - those still offering full fat RTP should be shouting it from the rooftops. Imagine players knowing that WH had nerfed their RTPs from 96, to 94, to 92, to 90, to 88 in the space of a couple of years... ignorance is bliss, except in this case where ignorance is expensive!

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Where is the RTP shown on isoftbet games then if it’s mandatory I can’t find it??

Maybe I’m blind??

Previously I was relying on what the casino was telling me but now I know they are running them as low as 90% I won’t touch them.

Tyrant King Megaways for example??

 

[jasonuk]

Where is the RTP shown on isoftbet games then if it’s mandatory I can’t find it??

They are one of the worst offenders - information, go to the final page of payouts (so far so good) and then there's an unassuming "rules" button which opens in a new window. The game specifications table then shows the RTP.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Ahh thanks for that!! I didn’t realise it was a button I thought it was a heading!!!

Hills had that running at 96% originally, but then of course they started running other maths models so I didn’t want to play it based on their own ‘help’ file.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Funnily enough they do actually now have the RTP for the game in their own help file.

Hasn’t always been there I can assure you.

 

[funnymunny]

Sounds plausible, but every other game developer (as far as I know) openly displays their game RTP even in demo mode.

I think Pragmatic started doing similar, and this RTP hiding phenomenon came after the fact they were displayed previously.

There was a conscious decision to hide information previously displayed, way after games were being copied.

Depends on the market... some Regulators insist on it & some don't. Some of the game developers want to appeal to players and Regulators, so are happy & open about what is displayed and where.

Conversely, many B2C sites may put pressure on their providers to be perhaps more covert about the positioning of this information (as they may wish to use the lowest RTP versions of popular games). The majority of players* initially look for the games they're familiar with & that could be what motivates them to register, deposit and play (as the assumption could be the game plays like it does everywhere else. Only when it doesn't do they start to investigate why (or write the site off as just being an unlucky destination for them)).

*This refers predominantly to new players - most definitely not the more experienced / educated on slots (like those on this site)