SHOULD WE FIGHT IT - OR SHOULD WE SLINK AWAY? ARE WE GOING TO JAIL?

[WagerWitch]

Casinomeister - and others...

I need some thought input here.

I started the FTPBTP forum in the belief that as an American, it is my right to stand up to the Government about what I believe in.

However, I've been getting emails telling me to be careful. My husband has asked me to quit because he thinks I could be in jeapordy of going to jail.....

I'm watching other people slink off and dissappear.

I'm watching others drop out of the communities they have been members of forever.

So - I've been reading and pouring over the law... I've been disecting it... And following the USC trails and every point that was made by the commission.

I don't see any enforcement rules for players but only for casinos, banks, processors - unless you read that it is illegal to make a wager - etc. ad infinitum definition...

So has there been any legal word yet from someone who is more informed than me?

Has there been a set of attorneys to agree one way or another?

Are there any advisements?

Should we - in order to save ourselves from jail time, massive forfeiture or felonious acts - should we... stop playing - stop visitng forums - stop going to gambling sites?

REALISTICALLY?

Does anyone know?

I mean - let's get serious here.

My head hurts from reading all this crap... And I'm a bit worried - cause while I totally believe the US is wrong on this law ---- not making GAMBLING ILLEGAL... But the warrantless search, the privacy invasion - etc... The FREE TRADE issues.... And I believe that I should stand up for that belief...

But to be honest - I don't want to be hung out to dry, either.

SO toss me some conversation here.

M

 

[winbig]

As long as you don't promote any form of online gaming, you shouldn't be worried about anything.

Personally, I would LOVE to be arrested for voicing my views. That would be a landmark freedom of speech case.


FYI:

Here's a nice link that outlines every part of the first amendment:

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[lots0]

No sense in 'slinking' away... if the DOJ has you on a list, it don't matter if you quit now or not, as far as the DOJ are concerned you are guilty.

Online gamblers and casinos stood up to law enforcement and made them look bad (not like it took much) but the police really get angry when you question their authority and make them look bad. (Just look at how they act about that cartoon network advertising in Boston that the police thought were bombs... They charged the the guys putting up the harmless signs with class A Felonies, same as Murders and Rapists.)

This whole thing is just another attempt to demonstrate to the American people who is large and in charge... and it ain't the American People...

Online gambling is all but over in the US till the clowns in the DOJ (and the white house) get kicked out of office.

 

[lots0]

Not to mention but who do you think "leaked" the information that there were sealed Indictments for more gamblers.... The DOJ thats who!

These guys at the DOJ know that scare tactics will now work far far better than any real actions that they take...

 

[WagerWitch]

OK - so I run WagerWitch Blog - that does have affiliate advertising on it.

I play at GoneGambling - I play here and post intermittently at other forums.

I Admin FTPBTP. And I play still.

Should I start making a Bail fund?

Should I start putting funds into untouchable accounts?

Or should I just close down everything?

I don't want to be running scared or anything - but I'm watching others do it.

Let's just put it this way... IF I GO TO JAIL - for any reason, I WILL lose my job. and my hubby would be furious.

I kinda need to know if maybe there is a REAL chance of it happening.

And if there is - should I be stopping any of the above?

THAT'S The kind of info I need.

What do you think?

 

[winbig]

First off, I would stop US players from accessing your sites altogether. A simple script on a landing page to check IP's would let you do this.

Secondly, I would move your hosting to the UK, or anywhere overseas.

I don't think the DOJ could touch you if you didn't allow the advertising of casinos to players in the USA.

Disclaimer: I am in no way a lawyer, or claim to be one. For the final word, I would definitely consult one.

 

[WagerWitch]

You got a copy of that script that would work for forums or blogs?

 

[winbig]

You got a copy of that script that would work for forums or blogs?

Nah, but the easiest way would be to have the script page as index.html, and have that redirect to the forum/blog url...

I'm sure they're out there, just have to google

 

[lots0]

I'm sure they're out there, just have to google

No there is not.
And it is not simple to try to block all of the US based on IP addrsses.

luckymeki, your just about in the same place I am. Most of my income comes from the casinos. I have several sites that are all about gambling (affiliate sites) some of them in the top ten in google for gambling keywords, it has taken me years and years.

But it looks like most of it is gone now, because of some anal retentive faciest lawyer with a hard on for online gambling and a pocket full of Harrah's Casino's money...

 

[silkprint]

I know I am about ready to give up . It is just becoming too much of a pain in the ass . Every day there is something new or chnaged . What is okay today is gone tomorrow . I think I will just wait for it all to calm down and in the meantime keep checking in here and the other forums I frequent . I can't give up these forums lol as they are a part of my daily life .

 

[winbig]

No there is not.
And it is not simple to try to block all of the US based on IP addrsses.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. There are plenty of scripts, and programmers that will code a specific script for you that allows users from an IP address that originates in the USA from accessing your site.

How do you explain the fact that if you are in the USA and try to go to www.goldenpalace.com, a site that no longer accepts USA players, you get redirected to www.goldencasino.com ?

It's a simple script that can check a database of IP addresses. If it looks up your address and you're trying to access the site from the USA, it will either redirect you to another site, or deny access completely.

This can also be done at the hardware level, either by the server itself, or at their routers.

Please, verify your facts before flying off the handle. I have been dealing with computers on a hardware level for over 13 years, and in addition, on the software/networking level for the past 5+ years.

Judging by your other recent posts, you're letting emotions cloud rational thinking regarding this subject.

 

[Addisyn]

If someone really wants to get you they simply have to label you as an enemy combatant. The legal status of enemy combatants remains murky. Habeas corpus was suspended in the last legislative session or was it?

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The way things are going in the US I just don't know what to expect anymore. With the Democrats in power I am hoping a lot of this crap will just go away. In the meantime however there are laws on the books to allow this administration to get away with many things we as Americans wouldn't recognize.

After all would you have ever thought we would have an Attorney General writing memos saying torture is allowed, or a Vice President outing a deep-cover CIA knock, the US breaking with the Geneva Conventions, starting a preemptive war, and so on.

 

[lots0]

Please, verify your facts before flying off the handle.

Well... let me check my FACTS.... I have been running websites for over 10 years (you know a professional webmaster) and I have a masters in computer science that I got way back in 1982.

So winbig, If it is so damn simple why can't you cough up a script?
You know so much about computers and its so damn simple why don't you write us up a script real quick... We'll need some code for Windows and some more code for Linux and some good .htaccess code will be needed as well for Apache....

BTW - I am not saying it is not possible, it is, but it is NOT simple nor easy and just 'googling' for a script is not realistic nor good advice.

A little emotional, ya I am, unlike you this is how I make my living, this is not just a play time activity for me.

How do you explain the fact that if you are in the USA and try to go to www.goldenpalace.com, a site that no longer accepts USA players, you get redirected to www.goldencasino.com ?

It is called a 302 redirect and has nothing to do with your IP address. Now if you were a Professional Webmaster, you would know this...

I think giving advice about a subject you obviously know very little about, is... well... more than a little creepy.

 

[winbig]

Why would I waste time to setup a script? I'm not in the gambling business. I'll leave you to your godly duties now.

 

[lots0]

...I'm not in the gambling business.

For not being in the gambling business you sure seem to like giving a lot of advice about how to run a gambling business...


Kinda like the guy who has never owned a cat, trying to teach people how to train their cats while telling them how easy it is...

 

[Addisyn]

Well I have trained two cats! I will tell you it isn't easy to do. My one speaks when asked to in a simple meow. He likes being hit on the rump and that is his reward.

My other cat does a few more things. She says mama as clear as a bell. During the middle of the night she will wake up the whole house calling me. She also plays hide and go seek. I hide she finds me. Then she will hide and I find her. We go could on forever with that game.

As far as scripts are concerned why would you want one if one existed? You are in Alaska according to what your profile says which is the US. Even if you didn't allow US players to access your site you are still within reach of the the law.

Am I missing something?

 

[amatrine]

Re

I have my siamese trained to count to six. I say give me three meows, he meows three times , you can mix it up, and can do it to six

Ama

 

[silkprint]

My cat ran away.

 

[Mousey]

Silky: I'm sorry yours ran away. I'll let you have one of the feral cats that live in the storage shed where I work. I think there are 3 back there.

Ama: Siamese are remarkably intelligent. They are waaay too vocal for me to have one in the house, though.

Addisyn: One of my cats says "Dah-Dah" very loudly when I've been brushing her too long. She hates it and calls for my husband (her favorite) to 'save' her. She started doing it when she was a kitten when I would bathe her. He would then come rescue her and dry her off.

Affiliates may want to consult a lawyer. Your problem is going to be finding one that 1: halfway understands the internet, 2: has at least half a clue about online gambling, and 3: is at least vaguely familiar with the UIGEA and all that has gone before.

If you talk to one who is clueless about all of the above, after you've explained the potential problem to him/her in detail you'll most likely get a blank stare along with advice like: I wouldn't worry about it unless you're served with a warrant. (Which we all know that is when it's too damn late.)

 

[The Dude]

Affiliates may want to consult a lawyer. Your problem is going to be finding one that 1: halfway understands the internet, 2: has at least half a clue about online gambling, and 3: is at least vaguely familiar with the UIGEA and all that has gone before...

If any affiliates wish to be referred to an American lawyer who specializes in gaming law, please PM me.

Also, you don't need to block US IPs from the site - that's pretty much overkill. But you can geo target your banners/ads etc. to non US. For instance if you are in the states, this site is virtually banner-free. And most of the text links are non-clickable. It can be done, and it's not all that expensive to do.

 

[Chatmaster]

Well the Geotargetting script can be fairly complex. The first reason I would say is because the databases of IP's needs to be updated regularly and second of all the database make no sense So scripting this yourself is out of the question. Hopefully this will solve the argument for my other 2 friends as well, as I have done it and know what I am talking about.

If you need a script for asp I can help you out with it. If you need script for php maybe Outdated URL (Invalid) will help

I also would like to mention something that is even more important. Just to agree with Bryan. Your website is aimed at the American people. Excluding them from your site with Geo targetting basically kills it's purpose. It will also damage your SEO as bots like Googlebot will get redirected as it comes from the US, not to mention red flags raised because of the redirects. Rather do a Geo targetting of your banner adds as Bryan suggested. I also support the idea of hosting sites outside the US and hiding your ownership of the domain.

I once again must add that it sickening and sad on what the US government has become

 

[lojo]

Good call chatmaster

(didn't want my thanks to get lost in all the thanks)